CapnBloodbeard Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Oh. My. God. Got the chance to try out his new upgrades on the weekend. Hoooooooooly crap. Schill is an absolute powerhouse. Problem is, both of them seem like auto-takes - and I've always seen 'shirt comes off' and 'survivalist' as autotakes. So I need to choose one of the latter two to drop. von Schill can basically charge models out of LOS now (charge one in LOS, and the other is in range) because with the new upgrade he can charge but hit any model in range. So he can leap into a pile of models and hurl them ALL back. But if he singles out a model? Holy heck. Hit the model. Place it some distance away. Get a free shot off because it's placed - Except that this one has a . Make sure you hit the reposition trigger, put yourself within charge range (also, this upgrade gives him a melee range of 2"), and do it all again. And if Schill has Oathkeeper, then after the first damage, he has to all duels with that model until he activates again. This means the bonus shot is a And let's not forget bout 'finish the cur' Also means he has on defensive. Though the on all duels applies to all models with oathkeeper. So, Schill can put Oathkeeper on himself to benefit from this. And lets be honest, a strongarm suit or Lazarus with a against certain models is an absolutely terrifying concept. But Schill can leap into a group of 3 models. Push the first 2 out (can't hit the shooting trigger because of engagement), push the other one back into the middle of your own crew and your models can finish him off - or if in danger, Schill can just charge back onto that model next activation. Heck, burn an oathkeeper at the start (and still keep one on him), and you can do this how you like. Placing enemy models where you want them and charging onto them again. Can use that to move out of sight of enemies, or to get upfield if needed. von Schill made Yasunori and Rogue Necromancy his playthings over the weekend. Now, just wondering - can anybody think of other Outcast models with pushes or places that would work well to move enemy models into Schill's range? Here's the thing though - with these upgrades, Schill is actually fun!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Dyson Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 I never thought of combining the two new upgrades that way- sounds like a great time! Don’t forget- with his Emissary, you have access to a pseudo-Lure (Call of the Lost’s Empty Road trigger) and the fact that the Emissary can give him the Shirt upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said: Now, just wondering - can anybody think of other Outcast models with pushes or places that would work well to move enemy models into Schill's range? In faction, Taelor, Johan, Montressor, Big Jake, Prospector (I think). Mercs that come to mind Anna, Burt, Performer. (not a complete list) Of note Monty and Big Jake would mean you'd have to shoot into a melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXXXVIII Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Tried schills-chain-beating. It's kinf of fun to go through your entire deck with just your master... until you hit the Black joker... which you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apes-ma Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 There is also the "secret mode" of Nythera Aftermath - which is that you don't HAVE to take a full freikorps list just to feel like your master is a jumped up Henchman! It makes VS feel like a master finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Before all these fancy upgrades came out i used to like taking Hodgepodge Emissary and Montresor with Von Schill. Hodgepodge gives Schill the shirt every turn, who now causes horror duels at effectively TN 13 rather than 12 near monty and if you use "comfort in fear" they take 2 damage if they pass the duel. With the new Nythera Aftermath Schill can also sometimes throw foes into base contact with monty or into somewhere monty can nimble into base contact from, making it easy to force foes to discard cards to attack and to trigger the paralyze. The Hodgepodge also removes randomization from nearby models, which is very useful for a variety of models and if you can keep up with VS it means he can throw people into base contact with monty then take the free shot! Anna Lovelace and Freikorps specialist can also cause horror duels, but it can be difficult to fit those in because you already have hodgepodge and Montresor. Other than the Freikorps themselves does anyone know some good models to use with the Hodgepodge no randomization aura? Rusty Alyce is pretty expensive but nice, Convict Gunslingers have trouble keeping up with the hodgepodge, Bandidos trick shooting would let them dart in and out of the aura and dead outlaws can reposition up the board to stay in the aura just like trappers would, only being a bit harder to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Mmm with no randomization? You could use Lazarus or the Specialist to shoot to YOUR troop to assure the moderate (with Lazarus is the same than the weak, minus the armor or even the enhanced-by-engineer armor, 1 to your buddy and 3 to the enemies under the template). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 It's good to know Von Schill has benefited from the new upgrades. It does seem that that was what Wyrd were trying to do. Weaker masters got some flavourful buffs to make them stronger, while stronger masters just got some flavourful buffs that keep them roughly the same. Although then there's Hamelin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plebian Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Freman said: It's good to know Von Schill has benefited from the new upgrades. It does seem that that was what Wyrd were trying to do. Weaker masters got some flavourful buffs to make them stronger, while stronger masters just got some flavourful buffs that keep them roughly the same. Although then there's Hamelin. I am of the belief that they gave him those upgrades knowing he will change in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Not all the upgrades on weak masters were solid buffs, but nobody can expect perfection, especially without a longer testing process and no open phase. Im just happy VS got good things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Plebian said: I am of the belief that they gave him those upgrades knowing he will change in January. Why would he change in January? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenshi Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said: Why would he change in January? New Year Resolutions. But he won't really change. After the first week, he'll no longer go to the gym or keep eating healthy. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said: Why would he change in January? Could be referring to bi-yearly errata (no promises have been made about Hamelin getting a nerf, but people like to speculate). Or perhaps GG2018, which at the very least seems to be trying to not make every pool a Hamelin pool, but who knows how that'll shape up by the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 I've been playing VS for about a year now and love the new upgrades. My only hesitation is with Oath of the Freikrops, since it really requires you to run a full Freikorps crew, which I feel isn't that strong, sicne at most we're talking 7 models, which in this era of Malifaux, is no where near enough. Outactivation is such a crucial thing that the full freikorps is just to expensive. That being said, I absolutely love Aftermath. Its sooo satisfying to throw models and then push and attack a different model after the charge. I find my lists with VS are mostly trunk, Suit/Ashes n' Dust, Librarian, and Sue. And then I play around with the remaining stones as I need. The VS ball of death is very fun for extraction and can grind out a lot of opponnets. MY complaint with Oath is that you need a lot of Freikorps to make it worthwhile, but also you're trading a master's AP for a lower model. Which is nice if you get the buff next turn with Prority Target, but I found that you often end up having to burn oathkeeper to get in postion in the first place. And since you can only give it to freikirops models, which are either expsneive or not strong (lookin' at you specialist) it becomes kinda a waste. I like the fluff value of it and do enjoy playing it in more casual games, but I've mostly abandoned it for tournament play. Though, I hadn't thought of jsut using Prority Target on VS, and send him in as a 1-man killing machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, Davos said: MY complaint with Oath is that you need a lot of Freikorps to make it worthwhile, but also you're trading a master's AP for a lower model. I'd trade as many of Shill's Ap as I could into the Strongarm. Anna is also an amazing model for oath. Then again, I think the specialist is good too, Oath plus I pay better gives him 2 focused shots, and Anna is great for bouncing models out of combat with him. I think all friekorps crews are totally viable, especially against Neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mikey_C said: I'd trade as many of Shill's Ap as I could into the Strongarm. Anna is also an amazing model for oath. Then again, I think the specialist is good too, Oath plus I pay better gives him 2 focused shots, and Anna is great for bouncing models out of combat with him. I think all friekorps crews are totally viable, especially against Neverborn. I'll give you that, Strongarm with fast+fast+fast is gross. I agree completely, against Neverborn VS and the Korp is great. He's almost an autotake for me, though I also run Levi who handles them well, if I think they're gonna drop incorparal stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 So what does your Oathkeeper list look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Von Schill, Oath of the Friekorps and whatever 2 upgrade fit the schemes 2 of these models: Strongarm, Anna, Specialist, Hanna (preference for strongarm, Anna/Hanna can take I pay Better) trapper Librarian 2x friekorpsmen (can sub these for a 2nd trapper and hodgepodge effigy). Steam Trunk. Schill plays as support until the time is right for him to jump in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 So do you jut spend the the first 1-2 rounds of VS throwing Oathkeepers onto everything that moves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Can only do it to 3 right? Seems like VS won't get very far if he does 3 Oathkeepers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 That's my feeling. While tossing out 3 is really good, its really not a ton of gain, unless VS is dealing out damage to apply Priority Target. So he has to be forward, while throwing oathkeeper, which just becomes a moving parts machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Davos said: I've been playing VS for about a year now and love the new upgrades. My only hesitation is with Oath of the Freikrops, since it really requires you to run a full Freikorps crew, which I feel isn't that strong, sicne at most we're talking 7 models, which in this era of Malifaux, is no where near enough. I hear what you're saying, but there are some awesome Friekorps models out there too. Hannah...Lazarus.....strongarm suit Oath of the friekorps is good at giving some of those models the positive flip to models Schill has hurt (only lasts until his next activation, but it can be enough), or to defence. It's trading one AP for another.....but it's actually a bit more than that, given it gives the model more attack and defence (Against selected models), AND the option for fast. Can be used to buff the defence of a model that's likely to die soon, or give the trapper an extra positive to help overcome some cover. If it's a game where I don't need to push forwards too hard, I've been finding myself burning my first activation on Oath of the friekorps - one to Schill, one to Lazarus, one to Librarian, something like that (furious casting with positive flips? yes please!!) So I think you only need a couple of Friekorps models anyway, the rest of your list can be as normal. I mean, it's going to be very unlikely that you'll put Oathkeeper on a friekorpsmann. Specialist could be useful if you really want to hit those blast triggers. Except that means you're running specialist, and at that point you're already doing it wrong More friekorps gives you a bit more flexibility - but yes, he still has the activation disadvantage, and highly scheme marker dependent schemes can still be a problem. Which now just means he's a bit more balanced. Honestly, even if I use Oath of the Friekorps once to give Schill Oathkeeper, that's still going to be 1SS very well spent, I think. Use it twice early on Schill and you've now got an Oathkeeper to burn at a critical moment while keeping the positive flips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raimu Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I played Von Schill with new upgrades once, and he is still boring as hell and underwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I honestly hadn't thought to stack Oathkeeper on jsut VS to just focus on giving him the positives. I'm gonna havce to try that. Also, for some reason didn't realize Lazarius was Frekiorps...might have to go pick him up... Von Schill, while might not be strong/competitive, is still my favorite master to play. I think he's very active and requires some good thought and understanding of the game. And he is a good pick into Gremlins and NEverborn, I think. I also find him to do very well against Arcanist. My VS enjoys making cannon fodder out of mages. Yes, Hamlin, Vikies, and Tara are all more competivie and strunk. But VS does a good job with what he has available to him and can givce other masters a real hard time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Outside of void wretch spam tara really isn't better than VS. VS is appealing because of his simplicity. His WP+HTK aura and the fact his crew is immune to pulse/blast damage means you can ignore a lot of annoying complex enemy abilities, the fact he cant be tied up in an engagement makes him even better at this. His totem, the relentless aura (though its not very good), ignoring armor/htw and the emissary letting his crew ignore randomization are all other things pointing towards him being the "ignore special abilities" master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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