Asura Roten - Residents of Rottenburg

[Daysleeper]

After various discussions in some resser threads it would be nice to have the closest thing possible to an "official statement" to the following rule:

"Residents of Rottenburg: Friendly Undead models within 12" and LoS may take Ml Actions printed on this model's stat card,
but they can only take one Action printed on this model's statcard per activation and cannot declare triggers"

So, what exactly does this mean?
Can any given friendly undead model within 12" use any one of asuras MI Actions (she has two) up to two times (or as many ap they acutally have, the restriction being you having to decide wich one of the two different actions you want to use that activation) or can they only use one action, one time per activation?

Also what about using these action(s) outside of their own activations via pounce for example?

Thanks for your help guys, english is not my first language and to my mind both interpretations are possible.

[Rob Lo]

POST FAQ EDIT:

109. Can multiple models use Asura Roten’s Residents of Rottenburg Ability to take one of Asura’s
Ml Actions outside of their Activation? For example, could multiple Rotten Belles take the “Undead
Minions” Action as their attack from their Pounce Ability?
No, it is once per Activation.

 

So it's only one Belle (or whatever) using her action one time, per activation.

Original answer kept below.

------------------------------------------------------

Because there are no official statements other than the twice a year FAQ, it's just down to individual interpretation, and the wording used on this one allows for different people to see it different ways. Here's mine:

 

Within one models activation, every model that is a friendly undead within 12 of Asura, assuming they have a reason to declare an action (pounce, it's their activation, obey, whatever), gets to pick one of her two ML actions, and use that chosen action one time. If they somehow get to declare more than one action during that same activation (perhaps they've charged), they don't get to declare either of Asura's actions and would have to use an action from somewhere else, presumably their own card. They could also have done their own action first, and then Asura's action. After that's resolved, a different friendly undead within 12 gets to pick one of Asura's actions, can be the same one the last guy used or the other one she has available, and use it one time. Repeat til out of models.

 

No doubt others will read it differently.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Rob Lo
FAQ answer

[WWHSD]

This was addressed in the 11/1/17 FAQ.

109. Can multiple models use Asura Roten’s Residents of Rottenburg Ability to take one of Asura’s
Ml Actions outside of their Activation? For example, could multiple Rotten Belles take the “Undead
Minions” Action as their attack from their Pounce Ability?
No, it is once per Activation.

[Kinginyello]

1 hour ago, Rob Lo said:

Because there are no official statements other than the twice a year FAQ, it's just down to individual interpretation, and the wording used on this one allows for different people to see it different ways. Here's mine:

 

Within one models activation, every model that is a friendly undead within 12 of Asura, assuming they have a reason to declare an action (pounce, it's their activation, obey, whatever), gets to pick one of her two ML actions, and use that chosen action one time. If they somehow get to declare more than one action during that same activation (perhaps they've charged), they don't get to declare either of Asura's actions and would have to use an action from somewhere else, presumably their own card. They could also have done their own action first, and then Asura's action. After that's resolved, a different friendly undead within 12 gets to pick one of Asura's actions, can be the same one the last guy used or the other one she has available, and use it one time. Repeat til out of models.

 

No doubt others will read it differently.

This is also how i read it. Once per who ever persons acrivation. Every friendly undead model in range may take 1 action from her card once regardless of what other friendly undead models also take. New activation allows each friendly undead model to do this again.

 

So in a hypothetical belle bomb situation, 1 lure from belle A causes 4 pounces from 4 different belles (Say belle A - Belle D). All 4 belles can take from Asuras card. But the 2nd lure from Belle A has it so none of the 4 can steal from Asura again, as during this activation they already used asuras Ability. When Belle B goes and lures, all 4 belle pounces can go back to stealing again (but again, 2nd lure from belle B cannot).

[solkan]

4 hours ago, Rob Lo said:

Because there are no official statements other than the twice a year FAQ, it's just down to individual interpretation, and the wording used on this one allows for different people to see it different ways.

That's nonsense, given that there's a relevant FAQ entry.

 

Quote

16) Could you break down when “One per Activation” Actions can and cannot be used?

 Sure. If the Action has already been taken during the current Activation, then it may not be taken again. If the Action has not been taken yet during the current Activation, then it may be taken.

The ability in question specifies one Action per Activation, for "they".  So it's one Action total per Activation.

 

[Adran]

I am strongly of the opinion that the rule will allow 1 action to be taken from Asura's card per activation. If you have multiple models during the activation that are ligiable to do so, you can choose which, but the ability only allows 1 action per activation. Should you somehow get 2 models with Residents of Rottenberg, then you could borrow 1 action from each model per activation. 

[Paddywhack]

2 hours ago, Rob Lo said:

Because there are no official statements other than the twice a year FAQ, it's just down to individual interpretation, and the wording used on this one allows for different people to see it different ways. Here's mine:

 

Within one models activation, every model that is a friendly undead within 12 of Asura, assuming they have a reason to declare an action (pounce, it's their activation, obey, whatever), gets to pick one of her two ML actions, and use that chosen action one time. If they somehow get to declare more than one action during that same activation (perhaps they've charged), they don't get to declare either of Asura's actions and would have to use an action from somewhere else, presumably their own card. They could also have done their own action first, and then Asura's action. After that's resolved, a different friendly undead within 12 gets to pick one of Asura's actions, can be the same one the last guy used or the other one she has available, and use it one time. Repeat til out of models.

 

No doubt others will read it differently.

I agree completely that it reads as one action once from Asura's card per Activation, but my initial reading was that it was only during 'that' model's Activation, not just any Activation.  I can see how it could be read differently though and could need a FAQ to clarify if that is the intent. 

If it can be any Activation, the Belle Bomb's dmg potential just about doubled....

[Fetid Strumpet]

No, it more than doubled because they are attacking at ml 6 and not ml 5. Additionally they aren't required to use the dmging one. They can pounce with the debuff, potentially sucking your DF down to 0, allowing further pounces to be  even more effective, and every single crow from Madam Sybelle to potentially outright kill you if she has bleeding tongue.

I don't agree with the interpretation that every single activation every model on the field can use one of her actions, but if it's ruled that way I will happily grind every single opponent I can find down with it to prove she needs a nerf.

[Paddywhack]

14 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

No, it more than doubled because they are attacking at ml 6 and not ml 5. Additionally they aren't required to use the dmging one. They can pounce with the debuff, potentially sucking your DF down to 0, allowing further pounces to be  even more effective, and every single crow from Madam Sybelle to potentially outright kill you if she has bleeding tongue.

I don't agree with the interpretation that every single activation every model on the field can use one of her actions, but if it's ruled that way I will happily grind every single opponent I can find down with it to prove she needs a nerf.

This is why I'm fairly confident that it is meant to be only during 'that' model's activation and not just any old activation. I do see how the wording as is may be open to some interpretation. If it was any old Activation then why have the limitation listed at all? 

[santaclaws01]

3 hours ago, solkan said:

That's nonsense, given that there's a relevant FAQ entry.

 

The ability in question specifies one Action per Activation, for "they".  So it's one Action total per Activation.

 

The current wording leaves it ambiguous as to whether the action can only be taken once per activation, or once per model per activation. I lean towards once per model per activation, because if it was just once per activation period then writing it out like "Once per activation, a friendly undead model may ..."

[Ludvig]

One action is likely to mean one action taken multiple times but not two different actions. The part about different modela using the same "once per turn" action treats it like different models have the sane action if they have identically named actions so that seema to be the normal way to reference a single action. The ability doesn't say the action may only be borrowed once, it only says they may only borrow one action as in the same action from the card but any number of times.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I very much disagree with that statement and would never rule it that way.

[Daysleeper]

4 hours ago, Ludvig said:

One action is likely to mean one action taken multiple times but not two different actions. The part about different modela using the same "once per turn" action treats it like different models have the sane action if they have identically named actions so that seema to be the normal way to reference a single action. The ability doesn't say the action may only be borrowed once, it only says they may only borrow one action as in the same action from the card but any number of times.

That's kind of how i interpretted it when i first read it, but i wasn't sure if that's what they meant.

... soooo basicly there are a lot of "reads" and there doesn't seem to be any consensus right? So what are we, as the community, supposed to do in this case?
Do we realy HAVE to wait till the next FAQ/Errata and hope that maybe there is something in there that clears this up or is it possible to hear from the developers/designers how it was meant to be read?

Cause this is always a point of discussion when this model comes up and depending on the interpretation of the rule Asura's (already high) powerlevel is even higher.

[Adran]

16 minutes ago, Daysleeper said:

That's kind of how i interpretted it when i first read it, but i wasn't sure if that's what they meant.

... soooo basicly there are a lot of "reads" and there doesn't seem to be any consensus right? So what are we, as the community, supposed to do in this case?
Do we realy HAVE to wait till the next FAQ/Errata and hope that maybe there is something in there that clears this up or is it possible to hear from the developers/designers how it was meant to be read?

Cause this is always a point of discussion when this model comes up and depending on the interpretation of the rule Asura's (already high) powerlevel is even higher.

Here is a post from Aaron (on a different question)

"There is no method for me to make a judgement on this outside of an FAQ (I've been yelled at by the community for doing it before). The best I can say is that I'll pay attention, and if it seems like a big enough issue, something may be added to the FAQ."

So if you can't wait you have the following options. 

1 Decide with your local group how you think it should eb read, and then all play that way. 

2 Dicuss every ghame where you might use her with your opponent how the 2 of you want to play it

3 Don't use Asura until you know

4 Pick a persons answer on the forum and stick with it. (I'd recommend Adran. He is obviously someone who knows what he is talking about. There is even a track record of sometimes being right. )

[Fetid Strumpet]

Pretty much this. She's just going to exist in flux until the FAQ update, if she is even added at that time. Until that happens there will be no definitive answer. So every Tournement/Organized Play/ Event you attend, and every casual playgroup you go to play at will require you talk to your opponent/TO to see how they are interpreting it. I will be ruling it the less powerful way in all games I referee and will not agree to play against anyone in a casual setting if they want to use the more powerful option unless it is officially FAQ'd that way.

[Daysleeper]

Ok, so we'll wait ...

[Kinginyello]

Can we make a poll on how to play her and as a community follow the poll and request to wyrd a faq?

 

Cause i believe wording is to the stronger asura but I'm uninterested in pounce spam to actually make this discussion change how i play so i just wish to play consistently.