Specialist: How Would you Change Him?

[Mikey_C]

I find Friekorps model in general stick around longer than the enemy models and it soon starts to be pretty even. I also don't see 10 model crews around here, to be honest that just sounds like trapper fodder.  

[Davos]

Oh, I see a lot of Gremlin and 10T, which have a ton of models, all who have high wounds - (Gremlins I face don't run byuos).  The trappers can DO WORK but they generally are only getting off 1 shot a turn, which even at min 3, isn't enough steady damage for what I face.

[FunWithKnives]

Specialist is ok

[CapnBloodbeard]

Looking at the way he's described, I almost wonder if there should be something along the lines "If a model receives burning from this attack, models within 2" also receive burning+1.  Models within 2" of those models also receive burning+1" - follows through on what you imagine the impact of a flamethrower to be.

 

In the fluff it talks about him setting fire to terrain as well.  So perhaps as well as 'this model ignores cover', we should have something to automatically apply burning +1 if the model was within cover.  This thematically carries through the idea of somebody hiding behind  crate getting damaged by the crate catching on fire.  Could even add in a push there - because heck, who's going to stay in one spot after this?

 

The first one would be highly situational though.

[Davos]

12 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Looking at the way he's described, I almost wonder if there should be something along the lines "If a model receives burning from this attack, models within 2" also receive burning+1.  Models within 2" of those models also receive burning+1" - follows through on what you imagine the impact of a flamethrower to be.

 

In the fluff it talks about him setting fire to terrain as well.  So perhaps as well as 'this model ignores cover', we should have something to automatically apply burning +1 if the model was within cover.  This thematically carries through the idea of somebody hiding behind  crate getting damaged by the crate catching on fire.  Could even add in a push there - because heck, who's going to stay in one spot after this?

 

The first one would be highly situational though.

Ok.  I legit love this idea.  I think it might be a wee to strong if it keeps going after the first 2inches, but it makes a ton of sense. Cause flamethrower.  Or, make it an aura duel.  Something like, all enemy models within 2" must pass a Df 13 duel or gain burning +2. Then the aura goes off those models, triggering more duels, but each time the duel target is lowered. So say it starts at 13, then if something takes burning it passes it on, and the target is 10, and so on.  I think that would make it worth 8SS.

Or, and this jsut occurred to me.  He has a 1 tactical which removes slow or paralyze at the cost of damage and +1 burning (i think it gives burning?).  How about giving him another either 1AP tactical or zero, which states something like (If target model has burning +3, you may end burning +3 to give the paralyze condition.)  This might have to be a duel (only for Specialist) with a target.  (maybe CA 6 TN 14, + a Ram). That why you could elect what to do with Burning.   Maybe this could be a O SS upgrade for the Specialist?

Thoughts?

 

[Mikey_C]

14 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Looking at the way he's described, I almost wonder if there should be something along the lines "If a model receives burning from this attack, models within 2" also receive burning+1.  Models within 2" of those models also receive burning+1" - follows through on what you imagine the impact of a flamethrower to be.

Just add a single blast to his weak damage and you would get a similar result.

[Jesy Blue]

5 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

Just add a single blast to his weak damage and you would get a similar result.

How do you do blast damage on weak when there's nothing below weak to roll the blast damage down too?

[CapnBloodbeard]

6 hours ago, Mikey_C said:

Just add a single blast to his weak damage and you would get a similar result.

Not really.  This would be even more devastating to groups of models.  A chain of models, even.  

[WWHSD]

6 hours ago, Davos said:

Or, and this jsut occurred to me.  He has a 1 tactical which removes slow or paralyze at the cost of damage and +1 burning (i think it gives burning?).  How about giving him another either 1AP tactical or zero, which states something like (If target model has burning +3, you may end burning +3 to give the paralyze condition.)  This might have to be a duel (only for Specialist) with a target.  (maybe CA 6 TN 14, + a Ram). That why you could elect what to do with Burning.   Maybe this could be a O SS upgrade for the Specialist?

The tactical to remove slow and paralyze deals damage, not burning. Dealing damage on a pulse has better synergy with Freikorps models since they are immune to the damage but not the burning condition.

[Davos]

I didn't think it was a pulse on the damage for the tactical. Isn't it just "take 1 damage and remove slow/paralyze? 

[Nikodemus]

Quote

(1) Move or Burn: Friendly models in pulse 10 with the Paralyzed or Slow Conditions suffer 1 damage and lose the Paralyzed and Slow Condition.

 

[WWHSD]

12 minutes ago, Davos said:

I didn't think it was a pulse on the damage for the tactical. Isn't it just "take 1 damage and remove slow/paralyze? 

It's definitely damage from a pulse effect:

(1) Move or Burn: Friendly models in 10 with the Paralyzed or Slow Conditions suffer 1 damage and lose the Paralyzed and Slow Conditions.

 

[Davos]

Hmm, never noticed that. Admittedly, I rarely, if ever play Specialist (hence why I have this whole thread), but when I have, I've never had to deal with Slow/Para.  Don't think I've ever used his tactical before.

Eitherway, I still think having an option to remove burning to give out paralyze would be really cool (though admittedly I know it will never happen)

[Nukemouse]

The main reason it wouldn't happen is it creates the awkward "must take mercenary" issue for crews like kaeris. Imagine if that ability turned out to be really good and you were told to make a competitive kaeris crew you had to buy the Von Schill box. Performers already sort of cause this problem for poison crews, because they exist and anyone can take them it affects the balance of all poisoning models.

[WWHSD]

2 hours ago, Nukemouse said:

Imagine if that ability turned out to be really good and you were told to make a competitive kaeris crew you had to buy the Von Schill box.

I'd just be excited to be told that there was a competitive Kaeris crew. 

[Davos]

13 hours ago, Nukemouse said:

The main reason it wouldn't happen is it creates the awkward "must take mercenary" issue for crews like kaeris. Imagine if that ability turned out to be really good and you were told to make a competitive kaeris crew you had to buy the Von Schill box. Performers already sort of cause this problem for poison crews, because they exist and anyone can take them it affects the balance of all poisoning models.

Yea, it could get really nasty. And removing mercenary from him would nerf him beyond nothingness.  Granted, there already are "must take mercs" for some crews (cough cough Burt Jepson - f*** that little F***er - sorry just really hate him).  It's mostly just a dream to make him him crazy.

I think the Df +1, Wk +1, SS7, and giving him a (0) which grants a free focus or push or something is the actual change. 

[KID55]

1 hour ago, Davos said:

cough cough Burt Jepson - f*** that little F***er - sorry just really hate him

2

And what with Burt?

[Davos]

He just routinely screws me.  Ex. 4 Levi shots, only doing 2 damage to him.  Or Glowy Burt killing A&D + Core in 1 activation.  Or Burt killing a goddman Peacekeeper.  Things like that.

[beergod]

the only changes that should be made are +1 wk and - 1 SS cost. then he would see more play. 

[KID55]

13 hours ago, Davos said:

He just routinely screws me.  Ex. 4 Levi shots, only doing 2 damage to him.  Or Glowy Burt killing A&D + Core in 1 activation.  Or Burt killing a goddman Peacekeeper.  Things like that.

0_o How?

[Davos]

Glowy.  

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

Gives him ignore armor/incoporeal I think?  And he already hits really hard for 7ss and goes reckless for 1 wd to get 1ap.

 

Back to topic, I like the idea of a spreading contagion for the fire.  Its the same as I was hoping for the banjonistas' paranoid in that each further activation would require a duel or spread, but alas that's not how its written.  Spreading fire would be the coolest, but yes.  Ease of use requires faster movement, standard df, and lower cost.

[Ajatros]

I kinda like the idea that the specialist is slow and has a low defense, because they are lugging around a heavy tank of combustible liquid after all. The primary attack is actually really powerful with a focus, so I don't know if it needs a revision, but I would change the move and burn to something like the following:

(0) Move or Burn: All models in 6 must take a TN(xx) WK duel or take 1 damage and gain the Burning +1 condition. Enemy models that pass the duel are pushed 4" away from this model. Friendly models with Paralyzed or Slow conditions lose the Paralyzed or Slow conditions.

This would make model better in close quarters, could get you out of jams, and the removal of slow & paralyzed would always have a little bit of a drawback. Dealing 2 damage or pushing enemies away is powerful, but you are damaging your friends in the process, because that's what you get for squirting flammable liquid all over the place, which means you also don't want to use this action all the time to push/burn enemies all willy nilly. Freikorps crews could still remove the burning with the steam trunk's fire extinguisher (you'd have to discard though, so just suck it up I say) or with an interact action like everyone else.

[Davos]

On 11/27/2017 at 3:13 AM, Ajatros said:

I kinda like the idea that the specialist is slow and has a low defense, because they are lugging around a heavy tank of combustible liquid after all. The primary attack is actually really powerful with a focus, so I don't know if it needs a revision, but I would change the move and burn to something like the following:

(0) Move or Burn: All models in 6 must take a TN(xx) WK duel or take 1 damage and gain the Burning +1 condition. Enemy models that pass the duel are pushed 4" away from this model. Friendly models with Paralyzed or Slow conditions lose the Paralyzed or Slow conditions.

This would make model better in close quarters, could get you out of jams, and the removal of slow & paralyzed would always have a little bit of a drawback. Dealing 2 damage or pushing enemies away is powerful, but you are damaging your friends in the process, because that's what you get for squirting flammable liquid all over the place, which means you also don't want to use this action all the time to push/burn enemies all willy nilly. Freikorps crews could still remove the burning with the steam trunk's fire extinguisher (you'd have to discard though, so just suck it up I say) or with an interact action like everyone else.

I like the changes to Move or Burn.  It synergies really well with Von Schill's new upgrade to shoot things off the push

[Ajatros]

On ‎28‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 4:08 PM, Davos said:

I like the changes to Move or Burn.  It synergies really well with Von Schill's new upgrade to shoot things off the push

I didn't even think of that, that's a good point