Big Brain Brin - A hidden gem?

[GrumpyGrandpa]

Hello all

I see very little enthusiasm about this model, which to me seems like a wonderful support model for several others.

The ability to reactivate a model with WP 4 (Roosters anyone?) seems brilliant, and very easy to achieve.

Anyone else thrilled to try out the model?

[Finalscene]

I've only tried her(?) On the table once with my Ophelia crew. She didn't have any targets for her reactivate so she became a sort of support/scheme runner. The times when my opponent put Parker barrows nasty conditions on my main girl, brin would take off the condition, rest of the time she was pushing with Ophelia new useless junk and placing schemes. I am really excited to try brin in a ulix list and giving hog whisperer reactivate then having hog give out his own reactivate...all the activation control!

[Math Mathonwy]

Unfortunately a "he". Would've been fun if he had been a gal.

[lame0]

TBH he seems pretty bad to me still. What he does is make a model that I think is underpowered pretty good (roosters) and I think the hog whisperer gets pretty good as well.

His cancel triggers ability is nice but costs a card and somer already has a (0) that deals with triggers.

Sober ya up could be situationally decent but needing an 8 is a pain. Condition removal to me is a bit less important in Gremlins since most of our models are inexpensive and thus if I need to take a 7ss model to waste half if not all it's activation and a strong mid card to get the condition removed then I'd probably rather just take another strong model. (For example instead of taking a model to clear paralyze on a swine-cursed it would be better to just take another one).

The rest of his card is underwhelming at best. Df 4 makes him super easy to kill with a bad version of reverse squee that can be negated by discarding a card leaves him basically done for if he gets engaged. 

Tbh it would have been cool if it was all wp 4 models because then taking a model that is mostly there for his (0) action wouldn't feel so bad since reactivate on warpigs, pere, taxidermist, Raphael, & rami would make for very different game play. Also his biting insult attack is soooo short ranged and because of his low df and kind of weak defensive trigger chances are he bites the dust trying to get it off. 

I think he is a cool concept but honestly for a support model he seems kind of mehh. The one cool thing is that he can keep your activation control similar to if you just took bayous instead of him. So him + a bayou are three activations for 10ss which is pretty efficient.

I think the one place I could see him being kind of cool is in a Zipp crew with either Zipp or Sammy having dread pirate Zipp. The advantage of that is that you don't have to have a scheme marker so that the sacrifice doesn't happen on a bayou if you know the bayou is going to be sacrificed to dread pirate Zipp (correct me if I'm wrong but Im pretty sure you choose the order of your own end of turn effects). This gives you more chances for mood swings and also let's the bayou walk 25 inches to place Zipp/Sammy. The issue for me is that you kind of have to answer: would I prefer to have this cool play over having a beater/support like Francois, pere, Sammy or Burt? Tough but I guess thinking about this stuff at least lets me believe he might not be really bad. I think if he goes anywhere it's because you can really use his (0) to the maximum. 

More or less

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Zipp + 4 Pool
 - The Gift of Gab (1)
 - Hovering Airship (1)
 - Rambling Diatribe (1)
Earl Burns (3)
Francois LaCroix (7)
Sammy LaCroix (7)
 - The Dread Pirate Zipp (1)
Burt Jebsen (7)
 - Dirty Cheater (1)
Pere Ravage (6)
Iron Skeeter (6)
 - Treasure Map (0)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)

 Vs 

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Zipp + 4 Pool
 - The Gift of Gab (1)
 - Rambling Diatribe (1)
 - The Dread Pirate Zipp (1)
Earl Burns (3)
Francois LaCroix (7)
Big Brain Brin (7)
 - Stilts (1)
Burt Jebsen (7)
 - Dirty Cheater (1)
Iron Skeeter (6)
 - Hovering Airship (0)
Rooster Rider (6)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)

Or 

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Zipp + 4 Pool
 - The Gift of Gab (1)
 - Rambling Diatribe (1)
Earl Burns (3)
Francois LaCroix (7)
Big Brain Brin (7)
Sammy LaCroix (7)
 - The Dread Pirate Zipp (1)
Burt Jebsen (7)
 - Dirty Cheater (1)
Iron Skeeter (6)
 - Hovering Airship (0)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)

 I dunno maybe the second and third list have some game. The second one definitely uses him to the best of his ability though and let's you have a pretty decent alpha with Francois & the rooster if needed (or at the very least could let you kill flankers pretty easily).

[Dominion]

Sammy "can't" take The Dread Pirate Zipp Upgrade

the mood swing action on bayous only happen when a friendly Zipp is buried.

so burying Sammy wont' work :\

[Dogmantra]

2 minutes ago, Dominion said:

Sammy "can't" take The Dread Pirate Zipp Upgrade

the mood swing action on bayous only happen when a friendly Zipp is buried.

so burying Sammy wont' work :\

Sammy's ability changes all mentions of the Master's name to her name for the upgrade she's holding.

[Dominion]

1 minute ago, Dogmantra said:

Sammy's ability changes all mentions of the Master's name to her name for the upgrade she's holding.

nice, forgot that part of the ability 

apart from the restrictions, this is the only upgrade that mention the model's name on the card (gremlin, Zoraida is Neverborn )

[lame0]

5 hours ago, Dominion said:

nice, forgot that part of the ability 

apart from the restrictions, this is the only upgrade that mention the model's name on the card (gremlin, Zoraida is Neverborn )

Yeah I think Sammy might use it better than zipp. Putting her in position to put down her conditions early with a bayou is pretty great. Also bayous are typically scheme runners so will be near enemy scheme runners so they can set her up to make stuffed piglets by just doing their job.

It's also less scary if you lose all your bayous your only at risk of losing 8ss not your master.

[HellecticMojo]

he's the 3rd most underwhelming thing for me in the book to me, next to the smuggler and the flying piglet.

He feels like a WP based Lenny, and I don't mean that in a good way. A vulnerable bubble piece that doesn't necessarily do much himself, existing so bayou gremlins can have semblance of competency. every part of his card, I feel like it's an unnecessary win more kind of move, or something that can be done bit easier/better by everyone else.

I don't think he's awful, but I feel like he's what you take when you have no clue what you are gonna have to deal with so you just take it because you already have bayous and chickens spammed out already

[Eorek]

Wouldn't he be a good pick if youn know you are facing jack daw? or if your meta has alot of people playing the midnight stalker?

Could also see him making an appearance against condition heavy crews.

[Math Mathonwy]

On ‎14‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 9:02 AM, Eorek said:

Wouldn't he be a good pick if youn know you are facing jack daw? or if your meta has alot of people playing the midnight stalker?

Could also see him making an appearance against condition heavy crews.

His problem is that if he is useful, the opponent will kill him. And he is arguably one of the easiest things to kill on a "toughness to SS" ratio in the Faction.

[Eorek]

5 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

His problem is that if he is useful, the opponent will kill him. And he is arguably one of the easiest things to kill on a "toughness to SS" ratio in the Faction.

This is true, I could see myself bringing him as a backfield piece handing out sober ya up to pieces going after jack daw. 

I don't have his card on hand, but can he use it on peons? Say the pigapult. 

[lame0]

On 10/16/2017 at 7:00 AM, Eorek said:

This is true, I could see myself bringing him as a backfield piece handing out sober ya up to pieces going after jack daw. 

I don't have his card on hand, but can he use it on peons? Say the pigapult. 

nope minion only wp 4 or less. I wish peon or enforcers were an option also -_-. They made him way to specialized when basically his (0) is his main thing. (Everything else is marginal at best and tbh I would totally prefer Johan for condition removal / his hammer if I needed it.)

[Omenbringer]

On 10/16/2017 at 7:00 AM, Eorek said:

This is true, I could see myself bringing him as a backfield piece handing out sober ya up to pieces going after jack daw. 

I don't have his card on hand, but can he use it on peons? Say the pigapult. 

Big Brain Brin can use Sober Ya Up on the Pigapult. The action doesn't have a prohibition against Peons. He can not use his 0 action The Same Thing We Always Do on it to gain Reactivate because as lame0 points out it is neither a Minion nor Wp 4 or less. Calculate the Possibilities might be worth a look with the Pigapult, though it is another 7 SS support piece for an already expensive Pigapult. The option to discard the three cards instead of placing them back on top of the deck is nice though (though it requires a different suit than is included in the starting value unless that is a misprint).

I don't think he is horrible, just a bit underwhelming, though I have felt that way about a lot of the new Gremlin releases. It would be nice if his Biting Insult attack had a better range than it does or if his Df stat also had an inbuilt   to operate his Defensive trigger. I dont think either of these would have been game breaking on him.

[daniello_s]

13 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

I don't think he is horrible, just a bit underwhelming, though I have felt that way about a lot of the new Gremlin releases. 

Have same feeling, man. For last two books I didn't have this Wow! feeling about any new Gremlin model. 

[Eorek]

hmm, he maybe would be a good pick against ressers/TT to deal with a potential yin? Say you play iron skeeter + franc or burt, you buff up franc and deal with yin early in the game. 

Also condition removal is never a bad thing vs ressers.

I deffo think Brin will make it into the "bring to tournaments Gremlin box" rather than the shelf at home. 

[Ikiwith]

On 18/10/2017 at 12:55 AM, daniello_s said:

Have same feeling, man. For last two books I didn't have this Wow! feeling about any new Gremlin model. 

In the wave 4, Gremlins had Zipp cree and the swine-cursed.

[Eorek]

On 2017-10-22 at 7:50 AM, Ikiwith said:

In the wave 4, Gremlins had Zipp cree and the swine-cursed.

^^ man has a point. 

[wizuriel]

I'm guessing he meant wave 3 and 5. 

[daniello_s]

16 hours ago, wizuriel said:

I'm guessing he meant wave 3 and 5. 

This. So many books and models and I lost track.  I meant book 3 with Emissary, Sparks and other 'goodies'...

[Dogmantra]

Shrug, I kind of agree about book 4 being kinda underwhelming even if it's not what you meant. Banjonistas are the only model that's really fun and new imo. Zipp is ok, but the rest of the book is kinda boring I think.

[wizuriel]

Just to go back on topic,

offensive purging of strategy conditions I feel is going be a very big part of GG18. If you can out activate your opponent and remove their strategy conditions you can get easy VP

[Dominion]

1 hour ago, wizuriel said:

Just to go back on topic,

offensive purging of strategy conditions I feel is going be a very big part of GG18. If you can out activate your opponent and remove their strategy conditions you can get easy VP

but then you have to consider if the 4ss of difference between BBB and Mancha / McTavish with Mud Toss is an effective discount for condition removal.
knowing that those 4SS of mctavish are a Sh6 14" 2/4/6 damage  + marker removal or Mancha's attacks

 

[Omenbringer]

9 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Shrug, I kind of agree about book 4 being kinda underwhelming even if it's not what you meant. Banjonistas are the only model that's really fun and new imo. Zipp is ok, but the rest of the book is kinda boring I think.

While I like Zipp, I agree that he isn't great, especially considering the stuff other factions received in that book. You can call it faction envy if you must, but the fact remains other factions are getting several great models/ upgrades per book (many of which are autonomous) while we are getting mostly lukewarm ones. As a faction, we aren't even that great at what we are supposed to be. Big Brain Brin is a perfect example of that. He is an expensive model that is built around supporting cheaper models, however, we can't hire enough of the cheaper models to make the investment worth it. This is especially true given the small bubbles we have to cluster in and the overall delicate nature of our models. The only model I am somewhat excited about from the new book is the Bokor and even there, they are going to be decent until your opponent just kills them first. Your experiences and opinions may vary but I have found my Gremlins much less enjoyable to play as each book is released.

[lame0]

3 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

While I like Zipp, I agree that he isn't great, especially considering the stuff other factions received in that book. You can call it faction envy if you must, but the fact remains other factions are getting several great models/ upgrades per book (many of which are autonomous) while we are getting mostly lukewarm ones. As a faction, we aren't even that great at what we are supposed to be. Big Brain Brin is a perfect example of that. He is an expensive model that is built around supporting cheaper models, however, we can't hire enough of the cheaper models to make the investment worth it. This is especially true given the small bubbles we have to cluster in and the overall delicate nature of our models. The only model I am somewhat excited about from the new book is the Bokor and even there, they are going to be decent until your opponent just kills them first. Your experiences and opinions may vary but I have found my Gremlins much less enjoyable to play as each book is released.

I mean Zipp is our second to third best master  (Imo) and although he wasn't on Sandeep's level he was probably the third best wave 4 master when he was released (now he's probably the fourth best after wave 5 upgrades....). Swine-cursed were a very nice buff to Wong. The iron skeeter also gave us better access to a strong alpha. Hovering Airship and Do Over are great 1ss upgrades (especially do over since it's some of our only card draw). So honestly I really liked book 4. 

Book 5 sucked for us since the only decent model we got was the crier and it is a very situational support piece (I like him in ulix). All the other releases for us had so many restrictions and buffed only our bad models so obviously we got nothing while other factions got brutal new models.

I also think getting probably the worst upgrades on average sucked because I feel like a few factions got upgrades that are huge buffs to what were already some of the strongest masters for them (Outcasts literally got the best upgrades on their best masters Hamlin, Viks, and Tara). I feel like none of our upgrades were game changers and tbh I think Somers upgrades were insulting. At least other great master in other factions got something interesting to play with sometimes....somer got nothing close to worthwhile. (The one that makes skeeters could of at least have said the trigger is to ml attacks so maybe Sammy could do something with it.)

Also the cross faction masters all got upgrades that are better in the non Gremlins faction which again is frustrating. (What's worse is that the same thing happened in book 4 when Zoraida got her "buff" model and it was Neverborn and we need to pay freaking 2ss for the ability to access a 3ss model......wtf.)

I'm not sure if the upgrades thing happened because we have Sammy so they didn't want obnoxious crap to occur but..... it feels bad. 

In terms of playability I think nerfing the stuffed piglet in July hurt us way too hard. It gave our non summoning masters even less options for crew selection because now our expensive fragile models are a bigger liability and outside somer/Ulix we have no consistent summoning so we fall behind on activations pretty quick. (we are Gremlins we are supposed to have masses of cheap shit)

It just feels pretty bad that like 25% of the good models book 2 gave us were crapped on, we got a bad book 3 & a pretty bad book 5. I also hate seeing errata in other factions keeping the models playable while we get our models totally butchered. (Mech Rider arguably got a buff to his trigger and got a minor tn increase to his summoning last time around....)

The way I see it every faction got way more than us in book 5 and somehow people keep calling for nerfs to Burt & McTavish. Which if it happened would be totally demoralizing as a Gremlins player (since they are the weakest in our own faction vs the other factions that hire them as mercs because things like debt to the guild or easy access to fast/copy abilities runs rampant elsewhere). 

I think wyrd needs to take a look at what they made because the difference between upgrade & new model power levels was way to much between factions. They gave Hamlin and Sandeep two awesome upgrades (one as an upgrade/ model (midnight stalker) and one as a model kandara). They are in the top 3 masters in the game and shouldn't be getting massive buffs made for them. Especially when you look at the load of trash Somer and Gremlins in general got...