Rasputina, Summoning, Mirrors, and LoS

[WWHSD]

It seems like Rasputina should be able use a Frozen Heart model to cast her new summon abilities through. It seems like that clearly covers the range and LoS to the scrap marker than needs to be targeted but does it also cover the LoS that is required to the summoned model by the general the summoning rules?

M2E Core, 51:
"If summoning is the result of an Action, the summoned
model must be placed within LoS to the acting model."


"Ice Mirror: When taking a Ca Action, this
model may draw LoS and range from a
friendly model with Frozen Heart within 10”
and LoS that is not engaged. Ca Actions
taken this way suffer -1 Ca and may not
declare Triggers."

Is checking LoS to the newly summoned model considered part of the Ca action?
 

[solkan]

The words "this model may draw LoS and range" still apply to the placement of the summoned model, since the summoning is part of the Ca action. Because its allowing the acting model to draw line of sight from a model other than itself, changing what's in LoS of the acting model.

 

[Mikey_C]

"If summoning is the result of an Action, the summoned model must be placed
within LoS to the acting model."

Pg 60. free online rules. (emphasis mine).

Strictly by this wording the summoned model must have LOS to the acting model. Since the summoned model can't draw LoS through a frozen heart I would say it does not work.
 

If the rulebook said "Within LoS OF the acting model" I would argue Ice mirror would work.  My 2 cents anyway.

[Ludvig]

Yeah, you should be able to summon through a mirror since checking for LoS is part of the action.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Mikey_C said:

"If summoning is the result of an Action, the summoned model must be placed
within LoS to the acting model."

Ice Mirror says that you are placing the model within LoS of Rasputina, and thus fulfilling the requirement.

1 hour ago, Mikey_C said:

Pg 60. free online rules. (emphasis mine).

Strictly by this wording the summoned model must have LOS to the acting model. Since the summoned model can't draw LoS through a frozen heart I would say it does not work.

You're ignoring the fact that this is a Ca action, so Rasputina is drawing line of sight through the other model.

In other words, you're attempting to create a distinction that does not exist.

 

 

[Mikey_C]

MY point isn't that Rasputina needs line of sight to where the models is placed, but that the model placed needs line of sight to Rasputina. That is how the rule is worded. 

In the case of Ice mirror line of sight isn't necesarily shared like in normal circumstance. I'm just reading the rule exactly as written, I'm not looking for intent. As far as I can see, rule as written, you can not use ice mirror to summon unless the summoned model is placed in such a way that it can see Raspy. 

[taagu]

The summoned model is within LoS 'to' Rasputina through the mirror, "to Rasputina, this model is in LoS".  As it is written vaguely I would acquiesce to the ruling that the model summoned needs LoS to Raspy, you can read it as either

Summoned models must be placed with LoS to the model whose Action or Ability summoned them

or

Summoned models must be placed within LoS of the model whose Action or Ability summoned them