Must Haves and never use.....

[generalbear]

As per the title, and inspired by a thread on AWP about models beng used by every player in every list etc etc

What are your must haves? what are you never use?

Just for curriosity

[Jinn]

Must have:

• The Arcane Effigy (the only model I'd consider in literally any list)
• That's it. Other than that, masters can mostly do their own thing with wildly differing crews.

Good to have outside of crew boxes:

• Johan
• Angelica
• Mobile Toolkit

Never hire:

• Molemen
• Razorspine Rattler
• Cojo
• The Captain
• Metal Gamin (still summon them sometimes)
• Fire Gamin (still summon them sometimes)
• Poison Gamin
• The Ice Golem
• Mouse
• Eternal Flame (the Malifaux Child is just better)
• The Scorpius (unless poison Marcus actually works)
• Hoarcat Pride
• Rail Golem
• Essence of Power

Probably missing a few models, but that's my list.

[KingCrow]

I always bring a Performer and the Arcane Effigy.  

The Performer is so good with her triggers, a Ml 6 with decent damage and auto poison, the ability to blow up scheme markers and the fact that she can give reactivate out if she dies. All this for only 5 SS? YES PLEASE!

The Effigy is very resilient (as all the other effigys are) and has easy access to condition removal but it's the burning or discard that I feel really makes it shine.  This can set up so many models or dwindle your opponents hand on each attack.  I love it.  

Models that I literally never use are the Arcane Emissary, Kudra, The Captain and the Essence of Power.  All these models have other models that perform their job better.  

The Emissary is good for a one and done play.  You throw it in to kill something and then it dies itself.  I'd prefer to bring Joss, Myranda into the Blessed or even the Rail golem who all have better survivability and/or damage output.

Kudra is fun but very niche.  She is a good scheme runner but then you might as well take the Firestarter since he has reckless.  I need to try her in a Marcus poison list just to see the effects but I still feel like she will not be worth it. 

The Captain is 2 SS over-costed for what he does.  If his upgrade was part of his card, then I see MAYBE taking him but even then, he still isn't incredibly survivable.  I usually see people who play The Captain keeping him in the back just pushing stuff around.  That's a 10 SS model, with a relic hammer, just sitting in the back doing something that a Performer or Angelica could do.  He might be better with the Steamfitter giving out armor but for 10-12 SS, he's still kind of Meh.

Lastly, the Essence of Power is just so sub-par in comparison to other totems for the Arcanists and even the Malifaux Child.  The only time I could see myself bringing him is if I play Sandeep and don't plan on ever summoning Banasuva.  But then you have to expend resources to even keep the EoP within range of models to receive its buff.  It's just not worth it.

 

There are a few other models that I basically never bring but the models listed are the ones that I NEVER touch as I consider them not worth it.

[generalbear]

24 minutes ago, Jinn said:

Must have:

• The Arcane Effigy (the only model I'd consider in literally any list)
• That's it. Other than that, masters can mostly do their own thing with wildly differing crews.

Good to have outside of crew boxes:

• Johan
• Angelica
• Mobile Toolkit

Never hire:

• Molemen
• Razorspine Rattler
• Cojo
• The Captain
• Metal Gamin (still summon them sometimes)
• Fire Gamin (still summon them sometimes)
• Poison Gamin
• The Ice Golem
• Mouse
• Eternal Flame (the Malifaux Child is just better)
• The Scorpius (unless poison Marcus actually works)
• Hoarcat Pride
• Rail Golem
• Essence of Power

Probably missing a few models, but that's my list.

Do you not play Marcus or just not use those models?

[Jinn]

5 minutes ago, generalbear said:

Do you not play Marcus or just not use those models?

I just don't use those models.

[WWHSD]

25 minutes ago, KingCrow said:

The Captain is 2 SS over-costed for what he does.  If his upgrade was part of his card, then I see MAYBE taking him but even then, he still isn't incredibly survivable.  I usually see people who play The Captain keeping him in the back just pushing stuff around.  That's a 10 SS model, with a relic hammer, just sitting in the back doing something that a Performer or Angelica could do.  He might be better with the Steamfitter giving out armor but for 10-12 SS, he's still kind of Meh.

IHe's a bit pricey for what he does but the Captain's push is more versatile than what you get with either Angelica or a Performer (he does cost enough that you could bring Angelica and a Performer though).

[Squirrelich]

1 hour ago, Jinn said:

Must have:

• The Arcane Effigy (the only model I'd consider in literally any list)
• That's it. Other than that, masters can mostly do their own thing with wildly differing crews.

Good to have outside of crew boxes:

• Johan
• Angelica
• Mobile Toolkit

Never hire:

• Molemen
• Razorspine Rattler
• Cojo
• The Captain
• Metal Gamin (still summon them sometimes)
• Fire Gamin (still summon them sometimes)
• Poison Gamin
• The Ice Golem
• Mouse
• Eternal Flame (the Malifaux Child is just better)
• The Scorpius (unless poison Marcus actually works)
• Hoarcat Pride
• Rail Golem
• Essence of Power

Probably missing a few models, but that's my list.

If you ignore the "good to have" list and remove the Eternal Flame from the never hire list this is close enough to what I think that I don't need to make my own list.

Oh, and add raptors and wind gamin (both even after errata). Don't need in every list, but they are pretty darn common on my side of the board cause of their low SS but still useful activations.

[generalbear]

may i ask what is it with angelica?

[Math Mathonwy]

Hoarcat Pride as a never hire? 

I think they're pretty fantastic.

[Nikodemus]

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Hoarcat Pride as a never hire? 

I think they're pretty fantastic.

Have you seen them locally or just with that savant who won Ropecon?

6 minutes ago, generalbear said:

may i ask what is it with angelica?

Cheap, pushes models, can carry Practiced Production. 

[WWHSD]

7 minutes ago, generalbear said:

may i ask what is it with angelica?

She can take Practiced Production.
She's relatively cheap at 6 points.
She can push friendly models (other than your leader) 5 inches in any direction without a flip.
 

[KingCrow]

Hoarcats are actually pretty awesome! I run them as scheme runners/finishers with that min 3 damage and Eat Your Fill.  Plus, they actually have good survivability with manipulative and their small target ability.  I've ran them with Marcus (of course) but also Colette and Sandeep.

I wonder if Wyrd will ever do anything with their Swarm characteristic?

[retnab]

Must Have's:

Howard Langston

Arcane Effigy

The good Totems (Malifaux Child, Emberling, Wendigo)

 

I-like-it-more-than-most's:

Large Arachnids

Captain

SVG

Union Miners

 

Never Take's:

Beasts

The bad Totems (Essence of Power, Mouse, Eternal Flame)

Kudra

Ice Golem

[WWHSD]

I'd put Steamfitters on the "must have" list.

[JoeJones]

For me, it depends on the master I’m using. The closest thing to an auto-include in my opinion is the Arcane Effigy.

If I’m running Rasputina, I will be bringing Snow Storm and the Wendigo.

If I’m running  Ramos, Joss, Hank, and the Brass Arachnid will be coming along.

Kaeris always brings the Firestarter. 

Anything else is scenario- or whim-dependent.

For never-takes, Mouse and Cojo head the list.

The Emissary can be good, but is usually overshadowed by other options (Snow Storm, Howard Langston, etc).

The Rail Golem’s weak Ml stat keeps me from fielding it at all - massive damage is only good if it hits.

Essence of Power is nigh-useless outside very specific lists and tends to be overshadowed by most of our totems. 

[hydranixx]

I'm not a very competitive Arcanist with only 3 masters, but for what it's worth,
Always hires:

Ramos: Joss, and either Mobile Toolkit, Electrical Creation, or both.

Kaeris: Malifaux Child, Arcane Effigy. If using Grab n Drop: 1-2 Malifaux Raptors, Large Arachnid.

Mei Feng: Mechanised Porkchop, Arcane Effigy, Emberling, either 2 Coryphee OR Mech Rider.

Never hires:

Steam Arachnid Swarms, Eternal Flame.

[dancater]

Question is heavily dependent on master and, especially with increasing book 5 upgrade diversity their build.

Now Marcus is a corner case as he can take any factions beasts and this provides a bunch of superb options but I'll stick here to Arcanist beasts only

Nothing is 'must' take but a range of things are very common and 'always' considered

• Arcane Effigy is simply superb
• December Acolyte is excellent value
• Master specific totems obviously Banasuva and also Wendigo, Jackalope, Brass Arachnid, Mech Doves

Very, very good

• Joss
• Angelica
• Mech Rider
• Johan (really invaluable in some crews)
• Howard Langston
• Malifaux Raptor
• Amina Naidu
• Performer

More niche, but common

• Sabertooth Cerberus
• Carlos
• Coryphee (pair)
• Ice Dancer
• Silent One
• Blessed of December
• Myranda
• Cassandra
• Oxfordian Mages
• Wind Gamin

More heavily build dependent, unlikely

• Poison, Metal, Fire Gamin
• Rail Worker
• Arcane Emissary
• The Captain

Simply never unless I'm playing purely fun/theme

• Mouse
• Ice Golem (as a non-summon)
• Cojo

Everything in the Arcanist faction not mentioned above gets into lists regularly, sometimes they are features common to certain masters and other times they are rarer but have multiple master utility but generally speaking they fall between my brackets above as the *but common and *unlikely, so somewhere in that space.  So if I was travelling to play and wanted to pack Arcanists (only, expect Johan who is a honorary member) I'd make sure all the first three brackets of models were packed, I'd select the other faction models as I thought I'd need them and honestly doubt I'd pack the unlikely models unless I had a certain crew build in mind while the 'nevers' would really only take up space unless I'd planned a specific simply for fun narrative type clash.

[Jordon]

I'm glad to see that others agree on the overall uselessness of Mouse. He's simply awful.

Obviously this is very crew dependant but here are my most common picks between the faction as a whole.

 

Most widely taken Henchmen

1. Joss
2. Firestarter
3. Cassandra

Least taken Henchmen

1. The Captain
2. Kudra
3. SnowStorm

 

Most widely taken Enforcers

1. Langston
2. Mech Rider
3. Oxfordian Mages 

Least taken Enforcers

1. Ice Golem
2. Cojo
3. Rail Golem

 

Most widely taken Minions

1. Arcane Effigy 
2. Performer
3. Wind Gamin

Least taken Minions

1. Moleman
2. Rattler
3. Scorpius

 

Most taken Totems

1. Wendigo
2. Banasuva
3. Brass Arachnid

Least taken totems

1. MOUSE
2. Essence of Power
3. Eternal Flame

[madaxeman]

7 hours ago, Jordon said:

Least taken Henchmen

       SnowStorm

Least taken Minions

1. Moleman
2. Rattler

Least taken totems

1. MOUSE
2. Essence of Power
3. Eternal Flame

Snowstorm is pretty much regarded as auto-include in Rasputina lists, and is more "must take" with her than any of the others are with their thematic Masters so I'm not sure how that gets in. In fact, if you wanted to refine the criteria for this exercise, Snowstorm would probably be at the top of many peoples "must-take" when with the right Master list.

The classic Moleman/Silurid scheme running combo is maybe a little unfashionable now in a world with Ice Dancers and Wind Gamin, but does anyone really take these less often than the Dancing Bear/Hamster of Doom...? 

In the Totem box, I've never even worked out what the Eternal Flame would actually do in a Kaeris list!

[Mxbedlam]

. Howard is ok. That's it. He can do damage but more often than not he's a waste of points because he gets blown off the board in no time. I take howard like 1/10 games anymore. Most times I'd much rather have Myrandabus or now Vogel and use the extra points for another activation

Truly the only Must haves are: Effigy, Mech rider, Angelica, Wind Gamin, Myrandabus, Acolyte.

Never hires: Cojo, Mouse, Slateridge. 

Everything else pretty much falls into the maybe with some models edging towards high end usage and others in the lower. For instance I've never taken a Rail Golem and I probably won't. Others love it. Emissary I bring in 1 list and leave behind otherwise some people love it. Howard I used to bring all the time and I stopped in favor of activation control some people still rate him very high. IMO hHoward gets the most mileage with Marcus. I bring different cores for different lists. Ox mages are in Deep and Ironsides. Raspy is almost all frozen heart. Ramos is Joss. 

[WWHSD]

Is the Slateridge Mauler really that bad when he's got the 0 point Circus Bear upgrade?  It might just be that I've got a limited selection of Beasts to run with Marcus but Boris seemed to do about what I'd expect an 8 point minion to do.

[Mxbedlam]

He just doesn't do anything worthwhile that can't be done better in 7,8 or 9 points. Carlos is tankier. Cerberus and Blessed are more killy. 

[WWHSD]

1 hour ago, Mrbedlam said:

He just doesn't do anything worthwhile that can't be done better in 7,8 or 9 points. Carlos is tankier. Cerberus and Blessed are more killy. 

To be fair, if Carlos is tanky at all he's 10 points unless you are bringing Colette. 

Like I said, I don't have many beasts outside of Marcus's box and my Cerberus is reserved for Myranda so that may influence my opinion. I don't think he's a bad model but I can accept that there's usually something else that can fill the same spot either better or cheaper. 

[Jordon]

7 hours ago, madaxeman said:

Snowstorm is pretty much regarded as auto-include in Rasputina lists, and is more "must take" with her than any of the others are with their thematic Masters so I'm not sure how that gets in. In fact, if you wanted to refine the criteria for this exercise, Snowstorm would probably be at the top of many peoples "must-take" when with the right Master list.

Like I said, this is just my personal taste. I don't think SnowStorm is bad, I just found myself taking him less and less and not really feeling his loss. I actually prefer the emissary to SnowStorm for the added utility and run the blessed as my dedicated beater. 

I've just had too many games where SnowStorm got charged by some melee beater and just evaporated. He's tough against shooting but pretty squishy against everything else. It's just too many points for such a risk. However I totally get it if others get a lot of milage from him/her. 

7 hours ago, madaxeman said:

The classic Moleman/Silurid scheme running combo is maybe a little unfashionable now in a world with Ice Dancers and Wind Gamin, but does anyone really take these less often than the Dancing Bear/Hamster of Doom...? 

Yeah again, I've actually had some pretty good success running the bear. It's a tough minion that can surprise people with it's durability, speed and hitting power from time to time. Certainly there are other models that can do what it does, but not many that are minions. In something like headhunter is where I find the most value. I don't think it's a particularly outstanding model but I do think it's better than most people give it credit for. 

7 hours ago, madaxeman said:

In the Totem box, I've never even worked out what the Eternal Flame would actually do in a Kaeris list!

It's basically a 2ss activation. Judging by how the Rats and Stuffed Piglets have both gotten errata'd for just being cheap activations I can see how being 2ss is basically it's only claim to flame. Now this is only 1 non-spammable model so it doesn't have the same impact but there is at least some merit to having a very cheap activation. Otherwise I just use it as a slight road bump to block charges and occasionally heal. It doesn't really do much else. However it still does more than Mouse who is 2ss more expensive

[hydranixx]

15 minutes ago, Jordon said:

It's basically a 2ss activation. Judging by how the Rats and Stuffed Piglets have both gotten errata'd for just being cheap activations I can see how being 2ss is basically it's only claim to flame. Now this is only 1 non-spammable model so it doesn't have the same impact but there is at least some merit to having a very cheap activation. Otherwise I just use it as a slight road bump to block charges and occasionally heal. It doesn't really do much else. However it still does more than Mouse who is 2ss more expensive

Beat me to it lol. It doesn't have any TNs for its heal which can good if your hand is rubbish. The main issue is that the Malifaux Child does more to actually set Burning up in the first place, which is what Kaeris needs. It also doesn't help that the Child offers a serviceable heal which further outcompetes the Flame.

Sadly, unlike even your lowly Malifaux Rat, without a  of any type the Flame does next to nothing to prevent enemy models moving and interacting as they please.