Best Crew Structure for Full Demos

[Noah]

Hey everyone, I have been playing for a while now and haven't really posted before, but I was curious to get an opinion on something. I have been running demos for some friends recently, using the starter set models, and am to a point where they want to run a full crew demo (at 35-50 ss most likely.) I have several crews available, and was wondering what yall think about what should be run. My first thought is to run Lilith and Ramos as the two masters for the demos, as it provides a diverse yet (somewhat) streamlined game. Crews at 35ss would be Ramos with a brass arachnid, Howard, Joss, and a steam arcachnid (upgrades tbd), and Lilith, Cherub, Barbaros, two terror tots and two blood wretches (upgrades also tbd). Any input would be amazing. My other crews available are Kirai, Nicodem, and a Chompy Bits oriented Dreamer, so I figured Lilith and Ramos would work best. Thanks!

[emiba]

I was recently (am still to some extent) in the same position as you and one of the best recommendations I got was to try and take multiples of models. This is because there's enough things to learn with just the game itself that having 5-6 different statlines and ability sets might become overwhelming. I had a 30ss game where I had all different models to showcase them, but the other player ended up using mainly walks, attacks and placing scheme markers and forgetting about all the other abilities as well as Terrifying, Hard to Wound and Hard to Kill. I guess that's probably my fault as a demoer, but hey, I'm mostly a beginner myself. 

[Noah]

I figure that lilith is more or less direct with how she plays (if you arent going for a grow base crew) and Ramos uses just a few models while also giving a good into to summoning. 

[Adran]

I probably wouldn't recommend the Ramos list you suggest, because Scrap production can be an issue (yes, an experienced player is likely to kill the spider with Joss to get 2 scrap, but its not always obvious to new players).  One using just one of the big hitters from his box and several spiders at least means that you are much more likely to generate scrap naturally  across the game by the death of your own models

 

[Noah]

The main player I am demoing to has watched me play Ramos on a higher level and would understand how to do that (although I am almost certain he will want to play Lilith). They all want to do one vs one demos with me, so I could also explain that to any of them who would choose Ramos.

[Ludvig]

Ramos starting with a few spiders and a single big guy sounds better like Adran said. 

If the Ramos player figures out the spider trick the Lilith player will have a very unenjoyable game because Joss and Langston are hard enough to deal with in a 50ss game and the spiders will give Ramos both activation control and the best (only) beaters in this game. Lilith's crew won't be able to put a dent in them if Ramos has activation control as well. If Ramos only has one beater I think Lilith at least stands a chance even if it might be an uphill battle for her.

I would argue that Nico might also work well as an opponent to Lilith. He could be played without a corpse factory apart from maybe a canine and just some decent hires to showcase how he can replentish his losses since he will be able to summon no matter who kills who since everyone drops corpses. Only getting one model per ap and being limited by killed bodies will also showcase summoning in a friendlier manner than Ramos potentially putting six models down in two turns.

[Noah]

That is a good point, Thank you!

[Sol_Sorrowsong]

I've only played a few demo games with the few lists I have for a friend of mine (he took Von Schill vs my Zoraida).  We played 30ss I believe.

The main things are simplicity of models and activation decisions.  For lilith and ramos, its important before hand to explain the core styles of each and how they generally play to those strengths.  I really like the wyrd 2 player starter for the demo campaign it has because it starts players with an easy learning of using the walk, charge, shoot and then later introduces triggers (and modifiers like +/-) and passives like black blood.    I don't know the level of demos you are planning for a person, but to me a short step by step doing quick 5-10 minute games with 3 models to know the cards bit by bit can really help when they play a more full 30ss or higher game.  

 

Long short, the cards can be very overwhelming at first glance.

[Piccio]

When I'm doing demo in game-fair I generally avoid to use masters for the first game, and I explain how SS works starting from 2nd turn.

I often include some pieces to explain push / lure / place / entomb / horror / fast / condition and the use of SS to enable triggers.

I use 3-4 models including 1 enchman (atleast 1 Ml beater, 1 ranged, 1 support).

for example francisco+santiago+death marshal VS kang+archer+torakage

 

I think people have to understand that they don't have to simply pew-pew-pew but they have to interact with something to do victory points, so I tipically ask them to "kill the leader" and "drop and keep marks on the centerline" to score victory points.

They have to learn the importance of  /  and when they can use their control hand to influence the duel or damage.

 

If you want to use masters I suggest something simple to learn, avoid "all faction" ressers (kaeris, perdita, mei feng, ophelia/wong, lilith, jack daw, yanlo/seamus)

 

[spooky_squirrel]

On 9/28/2017 at 2:12 AM, Adran said:

I probably wouldn't recommend the Ramos list you suggest, because Scrap production can be an issue (yes, an experienced player is likely to kill the spider with Joss to get 2 scrap, but its not always obvious to new players).  One using just one of the big hitters from his box and several spiders at least means that you are much more likely to generate scrap naturally  across the game by the death of your own models

I've run into this exact problem with new Ramos players. Some players need to see the initial scrap generation played out a few times within the greater context of a Malifaux game for it to really click, especially if they're coming from other game systems where killing your own models is never part of the plan, and wiping out your opponents is. Similarly, Lilith can be played in a straight forward manner, but there's other things that she does that can make things quickly complicated.

As others have recommended, use multiples of models to limit the information overload. Starter boxes for several of the masters will work out really well (provided you, as the one planning demos, make sure that those boxes meet certain playability requirements). Ramos' summoning is possibly too far over the top for introductory games, for reasons already mentioned. That being said, if your players aren't shy about learning some of the more dastardly stuff then Ramos into Lilith (full tilt on both sides) can make for a very interesting game--but full tilt isn't really a demo setting.

 

For playability checks, make sure that the crew is a legal crew that can be fielded on the table without jumping through hoops (some summoning masters break this, for example), and that the total hiring cost of the crew and upgrades is scaled for the size of encounter you're looking to demo. Have a planned scenario for the demo (Turf War, A Line in the Sand, and something killy for example) and make sure that the crew can actually complete scenario requirements without a whole lot of fuss. That is, the crew has significant models for running schemes, at least one model that can do damage for killing purposes, and can provide enough board presence to work into the scenario even as models start dying. If the crew relies on a deep understanding of synergies to make it sing, you might pass on it for demo purposes unless your players are up for some analysis paralysis.