Schemes & Stones (Blog) Wave 5 Yan Lo

[Khyodee]

Let me know what you think of the article.

https://schemesandstones.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/10t-yan-lo-wave-5-9-25-17/

[whodares]

I'm quite saddened you didn't mention the Disguised trick

On 20-9-2017 at 12:52 PM, Amayasu said:

I may be off-kilter here, but i've been pondering a sacrificial Charm Warder. It's 5SS which you could ultimately turn into a 5SS Ashigaru with Toshiro.

 

So Yan, a Charm Warder and a Goryo walk into a bar.

Goryo cuts himself for a Seishin.

Charm Warder Disguises Yan.

Yan activates, discards for a Chi, eats the Seishin for a Chi, Severes the Warder for a Chi and then kills the Warder for a final Chi, giving 4. Yan (0) for an upgrade.

Yan spends the rest of the game Disguised (as the Warder never again activates) and has enough Chi for Casting Expert and +1Ca or Ash upgrade on next activation, and you only need one severe as two weaks is enough to kill the Seishin and finish the Warder.

Warder is living so Tosh can summon off the Corpse.

I'm not sure if it's worth it, but 4 Master AP and Disguised seem compelling on a master that likes to get into the thick of things and needs the Chi early.

It also helps with your point that you make in the Blood Ascendant upgrade: you really need that 5 Chi to actually work. Ca 5 is too low for the extra AP. This way you get Disguised, Blood Ascendant AND can discard Turn 2 for that extra Chi to go to ca 6.

 

In the Weaknesses, I would also mention ca attacks as they pretty much bypass all your defenses. Incorporeal will not help you, which leaves you only with Impossible to Wound. Play against something like Rasputina and you will get demolished by the min 3 damage on her casting attacks.

 

Perhaps mention that Reliquary can only resummon Ancestors and that you really need to bring them if you plan on using the upgrade. You only make a mention of "resummoning key models", but that won't work in your Obsidian Statue list.

 

In your core crew you mention Low River Monk, but nobody seems to be carrying his upgrade. I feel LRM is only worth it if somebody actually brings it and they need to stay within certain parameters of LRM for it to actually work. This could be good info to place there as well.

 

For the rest I find it a decent article. You make good mentions of the power of Yan Lo and also the possibilities he can go for. You seem to love Lightning Dance as much as I do, which is also a +

 

EDIT: just realised I forgot something important here. in the article you mention FtF and that it generates Chi. You then say you can get up to 3 Chi because they calculate independantly. Asami's upgrade card which does thesame thing (but summons instead of giving Chi) mentions that all VP are gained at thesame time. I highly doubt getting 1 Chi per strat/scheme is legal, so I hope Wyrd clarifies that soon!

[Shafaar]

Fantastic article and a very good overview. You was able to mention all pros and cons I found playing Yan last several months. The only one I could somehow disagree is Transcendence - I found it quite mandatory while having Izamu who mostly work like a magnet for all armor piercing stuff the opponent can have.

Also, worth mentioning is a Chiaki-Emissary combo: 1) activate Emissary, use Rites on Chiaki to give her Fast then complete activation as u wish 2) activate Chiaki, do anything but pass Fast to Yan, 3) activate Yan with Fast condition, 2x(0) + 4AP help a bit but anyway attach any upgrade so Emissary gets Fast for his turn2
   
 

[yanlosbeard]

This blog is great, and has inspired me to give Yan Lo another shot after scoring an appalling win-loss record with his pre-Wave 5 incarnation. 

I too was wondering the exact purpose of the Low River Monk in your crew, and how (if?) you are shoe-horsing Peaceful Waters into the list?

[Nikodemus]

Of the ones mentioned, Izamu, Obsidian Statue (it's an enforcer right?), Sensei Yu, Sun Quiang and Toshiro all strike me as models that can reasonably easily fit in the upgrade.

[yanlosbeard]

2 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

Of the ones mentioned, Izamu, Obsidian Statue (it's an enforcer right?), Sensei Yu, Sun Quiang and Toshiro all strike me as models that can reasonably easily fit in the upgrade.

I'm not sure that I would 'waste' Izamu's upgrade slot on Peaceful Waters when he would benefit massively from Recalled Training.

The blog article reads as though Izamu and the Emissary are the preferred picks for the crew, yet both of them would want to carry an upgrade other then Peaceful Waters (Recalled Training and Ancestral Conflux respectively).

[Nikodemus]

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'massively', but it is a good upgrade. I prefer Equality on him. If I take Izamu it's for his tanking/tarpitting, moreso than killing models. That perspective in mind he already gets +flip to disengaging strikes and df4 with a +flip is still df4. Sure, if Yu/Sun/Toshiro are in the crew then they'd get Peaceful Waters instead of Izamu.

[Khyodee]

On 9/28/2017 at 7:21 AM, yanlosbeard said:

This blog is great, and has inspired me to give Yan Lo another shot after scoring an appalling win-loss record with his pre-Wave 5 incarnation. 

I too was wondering the exact purpose of the Low River Monk in your crew, and how (if?) you are shoe-horsing Peaceful Waters into the list?

I usually put it on Yu, Sun, or Izamu as the case may warrant. I also agree that Recalled Training is a waste on Izamu since his damage is 3/4/5 and he already has (+) to damage. Recalled is much better on damage tracks that scale better, where Izamu you're happy to just hit min 3 most of the time.

[Tris]

What do you think about the Terracotta Warrior for Yan Lo - upgrade swapping seems difficult with yan los transcendency upgrades?

Or would you use him just for his protection?

[Khyodee]

3 hours ago, Tris said:

What do you think about the Terracotta Warrior for Yan Lo - upgrade swapping seems difficult with yan los transcendency upgrades?

Or would you use him just for his protection?

You can use it to swap upgrades around, but it seems like something always happens when I tried starting with Fortify and planned on switching to reliquary.

[Tris]

@Khyodee But you have to consider the same restrictions as with hiring, don`t you?

 

So, are you starting with no/one Upgrades on him?

[Khyodee]

8 hours ago, Tris said:

@Khyodee But you have to consider the same restrictions as with hiring, don`t you?

 

So, are you starting with no/one Upgrades on him?

If you only have 1 Ascendant upgrade you can convert it to chi then swap if you really need too.

[Tokapondora]

If you convert it to Chi you're also not using your 0 to take any. Really seems like you're handicapping yourself to justify a TCW.

[Paddywhack]

 

You might want to see this thread in the Rules Forum. 

So far the consensus is that you would NOT get +3 Chi just because your opponent scores both schemes and his Strat at the end of the turn. End of turn VP is gained simultaneously (per an Asami upgrade of all things). So most you get at the end of the turn is +1. 

If they score during the turn for two different schemes and then score the Strat at the end of the turn, you could still get +3Chi, but that is not going to happen very often. 

Otherwise an interesting read, though I play him Ressurs and have access to Datsue Ba as well. 

[Khyodee]

3 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

 

You might want to see this thread in the Rules Forum. 

So far the consensus is that you would NOT get +3 Chi just because your opponent scores both schemes and his Strat at the end of the turn. End of turn VP is gained simultaneously (per an Asami upgrade of all things). So most you get at the end of the turn is +1. 

If they score during the turn for two different schemes and then score the Strat at the end of the turn, you could still get +3Chi, but that is not going to happen very often. 

Otherwise an interesting read, though I play him Ressurs and have access to Datsue Ba as well. 

I don't quire agree with that forum post's assessment. Basically the argument is the in book rules are trumped by a single upgrade and thus it doesn't work. First off, I would be more inclined to go off the rules and second the Asami rules simple states that both players score VP at the same time. That states nothing about schemes being scored independently, just that players score at the same time and your assuming that means all the points are scored at the same time (which the rules state otherwise).

As far as I'm concerned it works until a FAQ or someone points out a solid example.

[Paddywhack]

1 hour ago, Khyodee said:

I don't quire agree with that forum post's assessment. Basically the argument is the in book rules are trumped by a single upgrade and thus it doesn't work. First off, I would be more inclined to go off the rules and second the Asami rules simple states that both players score VP at the same time. That states nothing about schemes being scored independently, just that players score at the same time and your assuming that means all the points are scored at the same time (which the rules state otherwise).

As far as I'm concerned it works until a FAQ or someone points out a solid example.

Then Asami would get three summons -one each time you score and have more VP than her. Plus, there is nothing in the rule book that tells you how to score at the end of the turn, only end of the game. Other than end of game, where does it state how to score schemes and strats? Being as they did clarify on Asami's upgrade I think there is quite a good reason to believe that is the way it is intended.

If the upgrade stating it isn't a solid enough example, I'm not sure what else would be. If it worked the way you indicate, then you would score one scheme, Asami could summon a model, score the next scheme, Asami summons another model, then score strat and Asami summons a third model. That is a lot for a 1SS upgrade

As there is nothing in the rulebook about how to score end of turn VP, they included the clarification: Note that VP earned at the end of a Turn are earned by both Crews simultaneously. I believe her upgrade was the first time this timing issue has come up in the rules. Yan Lo's is the second. 

As Follow Their Footsteps uses almost the same wording as Asami's upgrade, it seems to be pretty apt.

• "... after the opposing Crew scores 1 or more VP...." (Asami)
• "Whenever the opponent scores 1 or more VP...." (Yan Lo)

Not really sure how much more solid you need? 

[Shafaar]

On 9/30/2017 at 3:40 PM, Tris said:

What do you think about the Terracotta Warrior for Yan Lo - upgrade swapping seems difficult with yan los transcendency upgrades?

Or would you use him just for his protection?

Terracotta works well while using new Crime Bosses and/or Sun - they are (situational) awesome but lacks protection badly, so Ancient Protection on them. Also swap upgrade on YL is a (0) so you should always do that. I tend to start with Misdirection/Fortify and swap to Reliquary/+1Wp while needed. 

[Shafaar]

On 9/28/2017 at 6:09 PM, Nikodemus said:

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'massively', but it is a good upgrade. I prefer Equality on him. If I take Izamu it's for his tanking/tarpitting, moreso than killing models. That perspective in mind he already gets +flip to disengaging strikes and df4 with a +flip is still df4. Sure, if Yu/Sun/Toshiro are in the crew then they'd get Peaceful Waters instead of Izamu.

agree, plus Smoke Grenades works also nice on Izamu.

[whodares]

2 hours ago, Shafaar said:

Also swap upgrade on YL is a (0) so you should always do that. I tend to start with Misdirection/Fortify and swap to Reliquary/+1Wp while needed. 

Once you go above 3 upgrades you can't ever swap those upgrades anymore. Yan Lo's (0) only lets you attach additional Ascendant upgrade. It doesn't allow you to change any non-Ascendant upgrades. That would be way too broken OP.

[Tris]

9 minutes ago, whodares said:

Once you go above 3 upgrades you can't ever swap those upgrades anymore. 

That's what I meant, Terracotta has to follow the usual restrictions for attaching upgrades during crew selection.

[whodares]

What would be a viable alternative for the wastrel/charm warder if I want to try and go for 4 Chi Turn 1?

I was thinking Tengu as they are also only 4 stones with def 4, but they don't get the free defensive.

[Tokapondora]

@whodaresIf you're fine with the 4 SS price tag I don't see why you wouldn't use the Wastrel/Warder. They both get a free  and the Warder even gives you a permanent Disguise for 1 SS extra. The only other viable option is the Clockwork Trap at 2 SS, though you'll miss out on defensive and a corpse to summon off of.

Tengu and Akaname wouldn't drop a corpse marker, Shadow Effigy has Df6, Low River Monks could get a free defensive but it'd cost them a walk so you'll have less positioning options... Why would you even need to swap from Warders/Wastrels/Traps?

[whodares]

6 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

@whodaresIf you're fine with the 4 SS price tag I don't see why you wouldn't use the Wastrel/Warder. They both get a free  and the Warder even gives you a permanent Disguise for 1 SS extra. The only other viable option is the Clockwork Trap at 2 SS, though you'll miss out on defensive and a corpse to summon off of.

Tengu and Akaname wouldn't drop a corpse marker, Shadow Effigy has Df6, Low River Monks could get a free defensive but it'd cost them a walk so you'll have less positioning options... Why would you even need to swap from Warders/Wastrels/Traps?

Because I don't have any of those?

I'm planning on getting the Charm Warder as soon as it comes out, so I'm not going to buy a McCabe box as I'm focussing more on Neverborn right now and his gimmick doesn't interest me.

[MrDeathTrout]

On 10/6/2017 at 10:52 AM, whodares said:

Because I don't have any of those?

I'm planning on getting the Charm Warder as soon as it comes out, so I'm not going to buy a McCabe box as I'm focussing more on Neverborn right now and his gimmick doesn't interest me.

FYI - the Alt Wastrel (Miss Ann Thrope) is the November promo.  You'd have to buy a Jury, but its cheaper than the McCabe box. 

 

[whodares]

2 hours ago, MrDeathTrout said:

FYI - the Alt Wastrel (Miss Ann Thrope) is the November promo.  You'd have to buy a Jury, but its cheaper than the McCabe box. 

 

A friend of mine is getting the Jury already and he's not using Wastrels. I can use them if he's not using them, which is awersome