Declaring abilities while paralyzed?

[twibs]

So, a thought occured to me while looking at the new 10T model Tanuki.
 

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Paralyzed: A model with the Paralyzed Condition generates no AP and can declare no
Actions during its Activation (not even 0 Actions which cost no AP). The range of
all  Actions a model has is considered 0 while it is affected by the Paralyzed
Condition, and will therefore not engage enemy models.

The Paralyzed Condition is removed at the end of a model’s Activation (not
during the End Step).

If a model gains the Paralyzed Condition during its Activation it loses all of its
AP, may not take any more Actions, and ends its current Action with no effect. Its
Activation effectively moves to the “End Activation” step, with no further Actions
taken by the model.

 

While the Tanuki has the following ability (exact wording eludes me, will have to check upon that)

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Take a nap: When activating, this model can immediately end it's activation. If it does so, it may place a scheme marker in base contact with itself and is counted as two models for the purpose of the strategy.

Could Tanuki theoretically declare that it is taking a nap while it's paralyzed? RAW implies that it is able to do so.

[Ludvig]

Yeah, looks legit. Napping while paralyzed seems like an appropriate response.  

[MrDeathTrout]

The paralyzed condition has been errata'd, so the rule quoted by twibs is slightly off.  Though I don't think it makes any difference in this discussion.
 

Quote

 

 Pg 52, “Paralyzed” Condition: Change the text of the first paragraph to: “A model with the Paralyzed 
Condition generates no AP and can declare no Actions (whether or not its the model’s Activation). The 
model is also not considered to have an engagement range or to be engaging any models (and therefore 
cannot take Disengaging Strikes).”

 

 

There is no mention of Abilities in the condition, so we've always played it that models can use their abilities while paralyzed.  In some cases is doesn't make any sense, but others it does (e.g. why would a witching stalker not blow up because it is paralyzed?).  Either way I've found no rule that says the do not work, so IMHO they can.

 

 

[Erik1978]

I seems weird to me that a model can't perform  any actions, not even (0)-actions and has no -range etc. but can still do other things that might be just as good.

This would also mean Perdita could discard a card to push 8" towards a friendly Family model along with countless other abilities on other models that aren't concrete actions.

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Erik1978 said:

I seems weird to me that a model can't perform  any actions, not even (0)-actions and has no -range etc. but can still do other things that might be just as good.

This would also mean Perdita could discard a card to push 8" towards a friendly Family model along with countless other abilities on other models that aren't concrete actions.

Completely dissalowing abilities would cause a lot more instances of "why does that make any sense" than what it is now. The majority of abilities are just passive effects that the model doesn't have direct control over. Are Nephalim suddenly going to stop bleeding when paralyzed for instance? Does the Freikorps suit stop working when the person wearing it can't move?

[Erik1978]

I agree that passive abilities like blowing up makes sense to stay active. We've always played like they are.

But Perdita pushing into safety or a model choosing to end it's activation to place a scheme marker and count as 2 models seems "not very paralyzed."

In my group a paralyzed model can't choose to do anything at all, that might not be RAW but seems very RAI since a paralyzed Perdita choosing to push 8" is a very active thing to do.

Doing things that aren't really actions on a paralyzed model reminds me a lot of the good old saying "it doesn't say I can't."

[solkan]

49 minutes ago, Erik1978 said:

I agree that passive abilities like blowing up makes sense to stay active. We've always played like they are.

But Perdita pushing into safety or a model choosing to end it's activation to place a scheme marker and count as 2 models seems "not very paralyzed."

In my group a paralyzed model can't choose to do anything at all, that might not be RAW but seems very RAI since a paralyzed Perdita choosing to push 8" is a very active thing to do.

Doing things that aren't really actions on a paralyzed model reminds me a lot of the good old saying "it doesn't say I can't."

  

Let's just completely ignore how overpowered that makes Paralyze effects, right?  

[Ludvig]

Flying models being able to clear a house that is higher than their walk stat just because it isn't wider than they can walk in a single walk is also counter-intuitive. Incorporeal models taking full damage from Loco's dynamite when he dies while they only take half damage when he throws it at them is similarly silly. Samael can shoot you through a mountain if you're on fire and a belle can make a robot sexually attracted to it. When Johan yells at people their wounds actually close and robots get repaired. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense, that's what you get when playing an abstraction instead of acting it out yourself. I don't see how this particular rule is the breaking point as far as logic is concerned.

[Erik1978]

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Let's just completely ignore how overpowered that makes Paralyze effects, right?

Paralyze has always been very powerful IMO. Often better than high damage output. But some models kind of "shrug* at paralyze when they can use abilities like nothing happened. 

An undead belle making a robot attracted to her is weird, yes, but at least it's consistent, she waves panties at men, an oil can at robots and God-knows-what at other things. Just like incorporeal movement is the same for all models etc.  

I mean, I see what you're saying, and playing it RAW certainly makes it just as easy as the way we've been playing it but when allowing active abilities on paralyzed models, some models are almost not punished by becoming paralyzed while others (most) are... well... paralyzed. Plus you can't even Obey a paralyzed model to take a simple Wk but if that model happens to have a non-action ability, paralyze suddenly has no effect? Like the Tanuki. 

[Dogmantra]

5 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

that might not be RAW but seems very RAI since a paralyzed Perdita choosing to push 8" is a very active thing to do.

I think it's pretty obviously not RAI since there has already been an errata to make it work more "realistically" by disallowing all actions. Surely Aaron would have also fixed this at the same time if he intended to. I'm sure he knows that abilities still work, so surely he would make it more clear if they were not supposed to. This is the issue with arguing from unknowable intent as opposed to interpretations of the text that is actually on the page. You have to filter another whole layer of assumptions which people might not necessarily share.

[santaclaws01]

6 hours ago, Erik1978 said:

Paralyze has always been very powerful IMO. Often better than high damage output. But some models kind of "shrug* at paralyze when they can use abilities like nothing happened. 

An undead belle making a robot attracted to her is weird, yes, but at least it's consistent, she waves panties at men, an oil can at robots and God-knows-what at other things. Just like incorporeal movement is the same for all models etc.  

I mean, I see what you're saying, and playing it RAW certainly makes it just as easy as the way we've been playing it but when allowing active abilities on paralyzed models, some models are almost not punished by becoming paralyzed while others (most) are... well... paralyzed. Plus you can't even Obey a paralyzed model to take a simple Wk but if that model happens to have a non-action ability, paralyze suddenly has no effect? Like the Tanuki. 

The Taunki and Chiaki are the only models that are situationally unaffected by getting paralyzed. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, some models like Perdita and Pandora can still move around while paralyzed, but they are far, far, from being unaffected by it.

[Erik1978]

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I think it's pretty obviously not RAI since there has already been an errata to make it work more "realistically" by disallowing all actions. Surely Aaron would have also fixed this at the same time if he intended to.

Good point. 

Still don't like that molehill though, but I stand corrected.

[Ludvig]

If you don't want a tanuki to take that action don't paralyze it. Paralyzing a frozen-hearted model or Hamelin or A&D is also useless, that's why you don't target them with that kind of action. 

You could paralyze a tanuki and hope it does that action ao you can kill it for double points in a killy strategy.