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How do your Errata?


DXXXVIII

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1 hour ago, Fenriel said:

Alot of good ideas I like alot. May have to playtest a few. Ugh when you look at it all together it almost cries out for an new edition. :(

 

I'm sure that most issues with models and upgrades that require errata in my opinion are effect of Gaining Grounds, new books and how meta shifted. For instance, both Jack and Lady L. were very tough when they were released, as not so many models had built-in :+fate to their actions or could ignore incorporeal. Right now they are fragile models - maybe not as fragile as glass cannons, but their survivability isn't best.

However, as you can see, there is a lot of different suggestions, and I'm certain that not all of them would be included in January errata. If I had to pick 5 models that require change, the list probably would look like this:

1. Parker - extremely weak - he is second worst Outcasts master (Misaki is first, but she is good TT master). 

2. Desperate Mercenaries - Compare these guys with Changelings or Crooligans. Low SH value when using Wild Firing, statline equal to Bayou Gremlin (except they are ht 2 instead of ht1) makes them worst Outcasts model in game. Reducing their cost to 2 and giving them rare characteristic would help a lot.

3. Freikorpsmann - Another weak model. Outcasts have good scheme runners in form of Void Wretches and these guys are outshined by 6 SS Freikorps models - Engineer and Trapper.

4. Rat Kings - Rat Problem should be (2) AP action, as this model offers too much activation control right now. They can use (0) action to eat enemy scheme marker, place about 6" from their current position (5" plus size of Scheme marker), charge for 1 AP and then transform into Rat Catcher and Rat. 

5. Freikorps Specialist - Same as Freikorpsmann - other options are strictly better than him.

@Gnomezilla thank you very much :) 

@Sol_Sorrowsong you replied in wrong topic, here is link to Neverborn thread: 

 

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I can only speak of Freikorps, as long as I only had played them. 

 

 - Von Schill needs to improve greatly to fill that cache of 1. I would give him Hard to Wound or Impossible to wound, to represent the old mercenary's famous toughness. I also would increase his Ml and Sh to 7, where I think should be a Master who's intended to be good but with an average damage. Finally, I would reduce te ap cost of Stand and Shoot to 2, while is very very situational as it is like now. 

 

 - The Specialist could perfectly have Df and Wk 5 without increasing it cost, and also I would give some tweak to him. For example, the Run or Burn "friendly models in range can increase the damage suffered to 2 to push themselves up to 4" in any direction".

 

 - The Freikorpsmann could have some (0) action that allow them to take an interact action, for example. 

 

 - I would also give the Steam Trunk a (0) action like "make 1 damage to a friendly Steam Trunk to draw a card" 

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I'd like them to walk back on the Leveticus errata. I won't deny that the old Channel was too powerful but the errata went a little too far. (not to mention the cache reduction which I still don't understand.) 

Something I between the two versions would be best: the. 2 damage at the beginning if an action to gain focus. 

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Leve's weakness now is that his damage tracks were written based on the expectation you'd be getting positive flips most of the time. Consequently when they took away that ability his low damage track became very noticeable. Making his melee 2/4/6, and ranged 3/4/5 would probably balance him out a bit.

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How about making his channel + to attack flips but not damage? Then hes a weaker perdita but still. Maybe replace his useless +1 to df trigger damage aura with an actual ability? Marlenas entropy condition could probably replace his ability to half wound a master too.

Hamelins pets has made rat models feel awful outside of him. Maybe make rats able to activate after all non rats have gone? Might need a clause about tara.

Nihilist and a&ds condition immunity are probably too strong. Maybe discard for nihilist? No clue about a&d.

Guilty should heal 1 when nearby torentef fail duels. Like nix, but just tormented. Remove the ability to discard to avoid getting the condition they give out.

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On 22/09/2017 at 4:17 PM, KID55 said:

Buff Hans. It's cool model but too card-hungry. Maybe change his cost to 6 or 7 OR/AND remove card discarding to declare suit, and make him like Bishop - just say the suit and get it)

And maybe transfer content from his 0-upgrade to his card, that he can take Scout of the field

I'd even be happy with a successful attack allowing him to draw a card.  '

Specialist needs some buffing.  I'd like 'does not randomise for engagement if target is engaged with a friekorps model (thematically it matches the flammerwuffen (sp?) and friekorps armour.  Some more mobility and a an increase to his max damage would help.

 

Old models are starting to struggle against new models - too many models out there with min dmg 3 these days, and DF 6 is becoming the norm.  Friekorpsmenn should have min 2 at least.  Min 1 dmg is often a huge deterrent against attacking, especially when you're very likely to be on a neg flip. Or give them a 0AP "Shout orders" ability - friendly friekorps model within X"" may move up to it's walk, or even 3" if the walk is too high

 

Vanessa and librarian both need higher damage.  

Johan needs a little more walk.  Taelor needs....something.  Don't know what.  

Student of Conflict could drop down to 3SS

I also feel like Hannah should be min 3dmg

 

 

 

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A&D is only big beater with DF value of 6 (Except Aionus, who acts more like a support than beater, and Nothing Beast, but his DF starts really low). Most models with cost 10+ have DF of 3-4 (Ice Golem even has 2) - they are easy to hit but hard to kill. Ashes and Dust has 9 Wounds, DF and WP value of 6, Can't be charged, can't be buried and is immune to conditions. 

I like the idea of changing Levi's Channel ability to "whenever this model declares an action, it may suffer 2 damage to gain Focus +1 condition".

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Ice golem cost 10 SS - it doesn't count

Nekima cost 13, have df 5 and wp 7, but melee expert, flight, black blood, have regeneration, 12 wd, crazy damage, many wp duels and self-healing + can use SS

Archie cost 13, have df 4 and wp 6, but 12 wd, terrifying 12, HtW+1, attack expert, huge damage, healing and upgrade manipulating. + can use SS

------

Howard cost 12 SS, have 5 df and 6 wp + terrifying + armor + ability to create soft cover + 11 wd

Riders cost 12 SS, have 5 df and 6 wp, but has grown "armor", stubborn and unimpeded

Killjoy cost 12 SS, have 4 df and 5 wp, but have 12 wd + terrifying all 13 + black blood + huge healing and crazy damage

Desolation Engine cost 12, have df 3 and wp 6, but have 12 wd, HtW +1, many df duels and huge healing

Aionus cost 12, have df 6 and wp 7, nimbe|casting expert, 12 wd, and reduce dmg from cast

Yasunori cost 12, have df 5 and wp 6, but armor, stubborn, flight, 12 wd and card manipulation

There is only 3 model in the whole game that cost 13 SS. Nekima and Archie has lower df, but has able heal themselves and use SS, and has more wounds, and has defensive abilities. A&D - an enforcer. Yes, his df higher than other (but Nekima has higher wp), he can be immortal, but he has only 9 wd, and his parts easy to kill. I think only three model in game for 13 SS deserve to be amazing.

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20 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

Changing Levi's Channel to that would effectively leave it better than what it was before, since though it wouldnt apply on manipulative or terror you could now take two walks, gaining focus each time then take an attack at focus 3!

Oh, I forgot to add "declares an attack action" to the description. My bad :)

18 minutes ago, KID55 said:

Yes, his df higher than other (but Nekima has higher wp), he can be immortal, but he has only 9 wd, and his parts easy to kill. I think only three model in game for 13 SS deserve to be amazing.

He still would be amazing. He can't be charged and his parts are not that easy to kill - Although Storm has only 5 WP, he has crazy 7 DF, while core has armor +2 and htw +2. I know, there are more and more things that ignore armor now than before, but, from my experience, A&D is harder to kill than either Archie or Nekima.

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5 hours ago, Cedar said:

A&D is only big beater with DF value of 6 (Except Aionus, who acts more like a support than beater, and Nothing Beast, but his DF starts really low). Most models with cost 10+ have DF of 3-4 (Ice Golem even has 2) - they are easy to hit but hard to kill. Ashes and Dust has 9 Wounds, DF and WP value of 6, Can't be charged, can't be buried and is immune to conditions. 

Not sure what do you mean with big beater, but  just in Arcanist we have Blessed, The Captain and Snow & Storm. All of them beaters with df 6 and defensive habilities. Also all of them are cheaper than A&D. 

 

Not saying that A&D is worse than those, not even he's bad. But pointig his Df6 as a reason to be as expensive is a nonsense. 

 

I could agree that a good reason for its cost is the activation advantage that can be the possibility of letting him to die, activate his two parts, reunite them... 

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1 hour ago, Cedar said:

Good reason for its cost is fact that he has 3 general AP, hits hard, is immune to conditions (which has its own upsides and downsides) and is hard to kill. But right now he offers too much compared to other high cost models.

A&D might hit hard compared to most models but if you start comparing it to other models in its price range it actually has a weak damage spread. I think the main advantage it has over other high cost beaters is summoning.

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Compare A&D to Archie and Nekima and its not that OP anymore. A&D has weaker damage but it has 1 general ap instead of attack expert and a rezz instead of a heal. but the rezz itself restricts it to be near the table-edges.

It also cant SS, has only 1 Upgrade slot and no access to henchmen Upgrades. 

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Give Levi an Upgrade adding a blast to his damage track. Or Up his damage track or remove the projectile from his attack. Give him Furious casting or add Suits to his unmaking. Just sth. There are more than enough ways to give him a small boost without reverting him to old levi. Its just that actual levi doesnt do lots of stuff.

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