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If you were to make the errata...


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1 minute ago, Luca 2.0 said:

Hey guys just a question, the errata when will be released? They will nerf Gremlins/ ressers as i heard and buff neverborn for sure or it's just a wish list?

This is all wish listing. 

The next errata is due January, but I don't think we know what its likely to cover. Its probably somewhere between last Januarys and Last Julys in amount of models it effects. (January is more likely to buff models, July is there to deal with major Issues)

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The only thing I feel could really use a nerf is Collodi. After him it would probably be illuminated and Doppelganger, but i'm not really sure it is needed

As for models that could use a bit of a buff: 
Everything in the starter
Vasilisa (just give her a bit more survivability)
Gorar
Aeslin
Beckoners (I actually don't think these are bad at all, since lure is a super strong ability, but having them compete with Lilithu on the same point slot feels weird) 
Hooded rider. (Am I alone in this since I am the only one to mention him so far, or did everyone else just forget about him?)

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Hooded Rider is definitely one that could use a little love. Never see him except in the Four Horseman lists. I want to use him, but just isn't worth the points on the table.

I think the Doppleganger is good, but not OP. Lots of games go by where she's barely worth her points, but then she makes a huge splash by borrowing Nekima's sword for three big swings or something and everyone remembers that. I see a lot of competitive NB players leave her home.

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21 hours ago, esqulax said:

The only thing I feel could really use a nerf is Collodi. After him it would probably be illuminated and Doppelganger, but i'm not really sure it is needed

As for models that could use a bit of a buff: 
Everything in the starter
Vasilisa (just give her a bit more survivability)
Gorar
Aeslin
Beckoners (I actually don't think these are bad at all, since lure is a super strong ability, but having them compete with Lilithu on the same point slot feels weird) 
Hooded rider. (Am I alone in this since I am the only one to mention him so far, or did everyone else just forget about him?)

Agree with all of these.

Posted this in the condition thread, but something I'd love to see for the Scion (I'd probably actually prefer this to buffing his Condition removal):

Quote

Scion really needs a buff, even just a SS drop to 7 to put him on par with Johan would be lovely!  Alternatively, I would push for either Ml/Sh 6 and/or some built-in triggers (:mask on Sh for Hide in Shadows and :ramon Ml for Blood's Favour{the heal}).  I'd play the Hell out of this!

The Blood Wretches would be fricken amazing (read probably broken!) if they gained Reckless!

Angel Eyes probably just wants her upgrade dropped to 0ss (arcane shield is not worth 1ss and she's already over costed) and a built-in ram on her rifle for Crit strike.

Dr Grimwell's upgrade probably should be 0ss too but that's for the Guild thread!

Aeslin and Gorar buff? Yes please!! Love the idea of just giving Aeslin a :mask to Df, but think she needs more...  Gorar just really doesn't want to be within 6" of the centre... it's way too squishy... I'd also love to see its Ca boosted to 5, Ca 4 is just pants.

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Gorar should work on the centreline rather than the center 6" bubble. Opens up more of the map so it's not in the middle of the scrum, and also ties in with fluff using leylines for power (like Vanessa).

Illuminated could lose one of their defensive abilities (Regen, Terrifying, Armour or their self heal) and still totally be worth their cost.

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Nekima doesn't need a nerf.  She's already the worst 13ss model in the game.  She only seems strong because she's the biggest, baddest beater we have and so we take her and force her into situations where she does well.  Ashes & Dust is way more survivable, hits nearly as hard, and summons on a trigger without having to pay additional costs to do so.  Archie blows her away in every conceivable manner.  Yasunori is both cheaper and better and has insane mobility both built in and in-faction.  Peacekeeper is cheaper, more durable (outside of armor ignore), has a 10" pull, and hits just as hard or harder depending on triggers not including Debt or Numb.  I think Nekima needs a defensive buff such as Terrifying or a knockback Df trigger.

Nekima is short ranged, does not have easy access to external mobility (aside from Graves) or other buffs.  She's made of tissue paper once a beater gets on her.  She also has a bad case of "Early Malifaux" syndrome where she is not nearly as AP efficient as the more recent releases.  She's the biggest and theoretically best glass hammer we've got, but we have so many glass hammers that it's a diluted role in Neverborn.

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Quick question from a newish player - does anyone feel like Lilith's Tangle Shadows is too powefull?

The reason I ask, is that I had a game with a friend, also somewhat new to Malifaux. I tangled his enforcer up, killed it with nekima and grew a mature nephilim, just like that.

We both agreed that there was nothing he could have done to prevent this from happening, since she can target without LoS, he can't stone to improve his odds, and keeping good cards to cheat in is not a guarantee since you don't decide if you draw good cards. In short, he feels like that the only way to prevent me from growing matures, is to not bring enforcers and Henchmen, and he would still risk me tangling in his master to Lilith and Nekima...

Does this need a nerf, perhaps limiting Master of Malifaux to only work on charges?

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2 hours ago, Strangedane said:

The reason I ask, is that I had a game with a friend, also somewhat new to Malifaux. I tangled his enforcer up, killed it with nekima and grew a mature nephilim, just like that.

You think that's bad? :P

What really hurts is playing a 5 Wp master into her and then getting it deleted t1 or t2, and, if your master survives, the doppelganger lets your opponent win initiative for a full Lilith activation of suffering. I kind of wish it had a non-master clause or something so I didn't feel hard countered when playing Asami. Or that master of malifaux didn't allow her to see through enemy models as well as her own and terrain, so that you would have some counterplay.

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1 hour ago, Jinn said:

I kind of wish it had a non-master clause or something so I didn't feel hard countered when playing Asami.

We're off topic, but the Mysterious Emissary also ruins Asami's day.  Its basic attack has a built in remove condition trigger, meaning that shiny new Jorogumo you summoned just had its Flicker removed and dies in in one hit.

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3 hours ago, Kirby said:

We're off topic, but the Mysterious Emissary also ruins Asami's day.  Its basic attack has a built in remove condition trigger, meaning that shiny new Jorogumo you summoned just had its Flicker removed and dies in in one hit.

She has a big :aura10 upgrade that stops that from happening though. That aura is another reason why Lilith deleting Asami really hurts.

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11 hours ago, Strangedane said:

Quick question from a newish player - does anyone feel like Lilith's Tangle Shadows is too powefull?

The reason I ask, is that I had a game with a friend, also somewhat new to Malifaux. I tangled his enforcer up, killed it with nekima and grew a mature nephilim, just like that.

We both agreed that there was nothing he could have done to prevent this from happening, since she can target without LoS, he can't stone to improve his odds, and keeping good cards to cheat in is not a guarantee since you don't decide if you draw good cards. In short, he feels like that the only way to prevent me from growing matures, is to not bring enforcers and Henchmen, and he would still risk me tangling in his master to Lilith and Nekima...

Does this need a nerf, perhaps limiting Master of Malifaux to only work on charges?

It's CA 5 vs Wp and requires a suit. The number of enforcers and up with less than wp 6 is fairly low, and there's also no guarantee that your opponent will draw a high card that allows it to go off, especially without spending a Soulstone or two for both card draw and/or the suit.

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I agree that the hybrid line is currently suffering.  Angel Eyes, Scion, Wretches...basically the components of the starter set. While they are all mercenaries, i don't think anyone will pay extra to bring those to the table...so they really are NB models, and face a lot of competition for their costs within the faction. We can add Tuco to this, to some extent.

Neverborn are glass canons for the most part and we pay a high price for it, so going first is often more critical for them than the resilient crews; the doppleganger makes sense in that context. I suspect i'll suffer alot vs Perdita's +2 initiative upgrade.

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15 hours ago, Strangedane said:

Quick question from a newish player - does anyone feel like Lilith's Tangle Shadows is too powefull?

The reason I ask, is that I had a game with a friend, also somewhat new to Malifaux. I tangled his enforcer up, killed it with nekima and grew a mature nephilim, just like that.

We both agreed that there was nothing he could have done to prevent this from happening, since she can target without LoS, he can't stone to improve his odds, and keeping good cards to cheat in is not a guarantee since you don't decide if you draw good cards. In short, he feels like that the only way to prevent me from growing matures, is to not bring enforcers and Henchmen, and he would still risk me tangling in his master to Lilith and Nekima...

Does this need a nerf, perhaps limiting Master of Malifaux to only work on charges?

There are several things that he could have done to minimise its effect. 

If he had been able to not activate his enforcer before you Tangle it, then he could activate it and eitehr escape or do serious damage before you kill it. Also what ever model you used that has gone to the enforces spot is presumably vulnerable. 

You managed to use your master, a 13 SS model and a 1 SS upgrade to turn a different 7 ss model that is close to your force to a 11 SS slow model. 

And you had to win several duels to get that all to work as well as have models correctly positioned. 

It is a powerful spell, but I don't think its overpowered. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sybaris said:

I agree that the hybrid line is currently suffering.  Angel Eyes, Scion, Wretches...basically the components of the starter set. While they are all mercenaries, i don't think anyone will pay extra to bring those to the table...so they really are NB models, and face a lot of competition for their costs within the faction. We can add Tuco to this, to some extent.

Neverborn are glass canons for the most part and we pay a high price for it, so going first is often more critical for them than the resilient crews; the doppleganger makes sense in that context. I suspect i'll suffer alot vs Perdita's +2 initiative upgrade.

Bloodwretches are great. Any crew that can give out fast should be looking at them.

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4 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Bloodwretches are great. Any crew that can give out fast should be looking at them.

That's the problem though... You're only ever going to see them in a crew where they can get Fast... To the best of my recollection, in Neverborn, that's only The Dreamer. Then as Mercs, you might see them in 10T with Shen or the Emissary. 

They need something like Reckless (maybe at the cost of two wounds) or the draw action needs to be a (0), again at a cost of wounds. That way they are much more universally useful instead of being a maybe hire in a non-thematic crew. 

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8 minutes ago, Da Git said:

That's the problem though... You're only ever going to see them in a crew where they can get Fast... To the best of my recollection, in Neverborn, that's only The Dreamer. Then as Mercs, you might see them in 10T with Shen or the Emissary. 

They need something like Reckless (maybe at the cost of two wounds) or the draw action needs to be a (0), again at a cost of wounds. That way they are much more universally useful instead of being a maybe hire in a non-thematic crew. 

Giving them some built in way to consistently get fast would be a bit much for 5 stones.

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4 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Giving them some built in way to consistently get fast would be a bit much for 5 stones.

I'm more than willing to concede that, that's why I also suggested making it a (0) and cost 2wd (it could even cost 3). They only have 5wd to begin with, so they are very fragile even if they do gain the 2wd back when they kill something. 

2 hours ago, Angelshard said:

Zoraida can use one ap on tactical and one ap to make them charge

Then you're using 2 Master AP, each requiring a 7 (of of them :mask). Not saying it's bad, it's just going to be very niche that that is the best use of Zoraida's AP.

I don't play Zoraida, but to my mind, Zoraida is one of the masters that need Bloodwretches the least. There are better targets to Obey and she gets better cards draw from Bewitch. I could be wrong. 

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12 hours ago, Da Git said:

You're only ever going to see them in a crew where they can get Fast... To the best of my recollection, in Neverborn, that's only The Dreamer.

Since they're Minions, Collodi does well with them and they can get Fast at the cost of 2 wounds.  Combine that with a Brutal Effigy buff and they'll heal that back without much fuss.  Lucius can allow then to activate the (1) during one of his walks, although ideally you have something better to command around than a Bloodwretch.

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2 hours ago, Kirby said:

Since they're Minions, Collodi does well with them and they can get Fast at the cost of 2 wounds.  Combine that with a Brutal Effigy buff and they'll heal that back without much fuss.  Lucius can allow then to activate the (1) during one of his walks, although ideally you have something better to command around than a Bloodwretch.

Strum only works on puppets and not just minion puppets.

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