Le gob Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 I borrow the idea from the gremlin forum, but if you were to make the next errata, what would you change ? How would you upgrade/cuddle the neverborn models wich deserve it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passenty Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 Angel Eyes and Candy are my prime candidates for a buff. Wouldnt mind a buff to any Non-Nekima Nephilim particularly mature and young as those became qiut obsolete with new releases. For cuddles I think only Collodi will need one but not any time soon(till they fix the more broken masters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 Vasilisa needs a helping hand. Perhaps make her upgrade a 0 cost. Take regeneration away from illuminated. Give collodi a . Give pact the text "when declaring a trigger this upgrade can be discarded to add a suit of the players choice to declare the trigger". Give teddy to df 4. Give sorrows to df4 and wd5. Have Conflux of sorrow only work on minions and enforcers so emissary can't get casting expert. (Not quite sure if this one is needed, but it's been extremely powerful when I've used it). Those are what I can think of off the top of my head 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le gob Posted September 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 Barbaros: slight damage increaseBaby kade: he is too fragile, get the manipulative up to 13, it's a babyBeckoner: drop the cost to 6 SS as there is no reason to not take lilitu instead, unless playing lynchYoung nephilim: get the DF up to 6Vasilia: get his WD up to at least 8Alp: have smother stack up for TN or do multiple checks if the ennemy is inside many auras, and switch Blood gift to a (0) action.Black blood shaman: they are too squishy, so maybe DF 6 or regeneration +2Angel eyes: add an ability to increase the range with focus or reduce the cost as 9SS fells too muchAeslin: increase her survivability with DF 6 or armor 1 maybe. 3 minutes ago, Angelshard said: Give teddy to df 4. I agree with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Git Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Angelshard said: Vasilisa needs a helping hand. Perhaps make her upgrade a 0 cost. Take regeneration away from illuminated. Give collodi a . Give pact the text "when declaring a trigger this upgrade can be discarded to add a suit of the players choice to declare the trigger". Give teddy to df 4. Give sorrows to df4 and wd5. Have Conflux of sorrow only work on minions and enforcers so emissary can't get casting expert. (Not quite sure if this one is needed, but it's been extremely powerful when I've used it). Those are what I can think of off the top of my head These sound very good! Really like the Pact idea! Things that probably want a debuff Doppelganger (not sure here, but something) Things that probably want a boost For me, I just can't see the use in Aeslin... She really needs something. Angel Eyes (either points drop, built in suits (crit Strike?)) Scion of Black Blood (price drop, or I'd still love to see his Blessings be for a single card discard, even if it's just for the first model per turn to use it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedar Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Da Git said: Things that probably want a boost For me, I just can't see the use in Aeslin... She really needs something. Angel Eyes (either points drop, built in suits (crit Strike?)) Scion of Black Blood (price drop, or I'd still love to see his Blessings be for a single card discard, even if it's just for the first model per turn to use it) I would add Sorrows, Vasilisa and Tuco to that list. I never faced Coppelius in my games, so I guess he's pretty bad, same as Black Blood Shamans. Only things that require nerf in my opinion are changelings and Collodi to some degree. 3 changelings and trapper are pretty common right no -. I think they should be able to copy only non- actions. Speaking about Collodi - his My Will is too efficient compared to other prompt-like actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edopersichetti Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cedar said: I would add Sorrows, Vasilisa and Tuco to that list. I never faced Coppelius in my games, so I guess he's pretty bad, same as Black Blood Shamans. Only things that require nerf in my opinion are changelings and Collodi to some degree. 3 changelings and trapper are pretty common right no -. I think they should be able to copy only non- actions. Speaking about Collodi - his My Will is too efficient compared to other prompt-like actions. I can vouch at least for the last one: I made a whole thread just to talk about how Collodi is unbalanced, and in particular his My Will is crazy efficient compared to any other Obey-like effect in the game. He could also use a on his attack. Changelings are probably fine - they're nice models but far from broken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedar Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 Just now, edopersichetti said: Changelings are probably fine - they're nice models but far from broken. In my meta almost any (except full theme Collodi) Neverborn crew takes trapper and 3 Changelings. They appear more often than Ashes and Dust, Nekima, Burt, Francois or Carrion Emissary. 4 SS models that can attack from 28" away are scary, especially if we compare them to other 4 SS models, like Desperate Mercenaries or Guild Guards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 @Da Git thanks I honestly don't think the doppelganger needs a cuddle. Yes she is very good, but I don't think she is in the realm of cuddles. Angel eyes could do with something. A might be it. Aeslin just need a on df. Scion, I'm not sure about only one card. Even if you said "discard one card with value 7 or more" it would be really, really good. You can use it even if he is paralyzed, it doesn't risk flipping a bj, it's independent of activation order. That is quite strong already. As for trapper and changelings. I honestly think that's dependent on the meta. We play with quite a lot of los blocking terrain and tend to find gun lines too weak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edopersichetti Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 58 minutes ago, Cedar said: In my meta almost any (except full theme Collodi) Neverborn crew takes trapper and 3 Changelings. They appear more often than Ashes and Dust, Nekima, Burt, Francois or Carrion Emissary. 4 SS models that can attack from 28" away are scary, especially if we compare them to other 4 SS models, like Desperate Mercenaries or Guild Guards Personally, I hate this contamination of mercenary models across every single crew. I can see what the idea is behind mercenaries, but seeing Neverborn crews with Trappers or Guild crews with Burt is just terrible. But this is a discussion for another thread... I think the problem is not with Changelings per se, is that they copy trapper's action. So this is bending the rules to find an OP combo. I hate this too. Off the top of my head, when this happened with Colette triple-prompting Howard, they went and cuddled the whole Prompt action, when really the problem was much smaller (triple-prompting a model with min dmg 4 WAS a bit too much). Mind you, Collodi has no problem with this, he could theoretically My Will 3 or 4 times a Stitched or Illuminated and inflict just as much dmg if not more, so here's another disparity of treatment... I hope this doesn't happen for changelings - restricting their usage to non- attacks would make them a lot less useful. Don't forget they shoot with value 4. But yes, the problem is that the trapper attack is too good, and it was never meant to be copied by Changelings - see the paragraph above about mercenaries contaminating every crew and screwing up internal balance... I would hate for the Changelings to be cuddled just because power players break the toy with unintended interaction. See what happened to Stuffed Piglets - they're now summon-only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 I'd love the Young Nephilim to slightly more desireable, so that you actually want the tots to grow, or perhaps even hire one from the start. The reason i hire youngs since a long time is simply for fluff reason. It might also explain why i never really made efforts to grow my forces at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edopersichetti Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Sybaris said: I'd love the Young Nephilim to slightly more desireable, so that you actually want the tots to grow, or perhaps even hire one from the start. The reason i hire youngs since a long time is simply for fluff reason. It might also explain why i never really made efforts to grow my forces at all. Yes, making grow list viable would be very good, and long overdue! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Sorrowsong Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Since I posted in the wrong group, I'll share this again. I think Bad Juju needs Unimpeded. He's only wk 4 so its not going to let him hustle around the table too fast but the idea of him getting stuck in swamps and forests when he IS the swamp and forest just seems a bit silly. I don't think its a major change, but improves the quality of life and will make the model more playable. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 22/09/2017 at 1:11 AM, Angelshard said: Aeslin just need a on df. I think that would go a long way with her survivability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 9/21/2017 at 9:05 AM, Cedar said: In my meta almost any (except full theme Collodi) Neverborn crew takes trapper and 3 Changelings. They appear more often than Ashes and Dust, Nekima, Burt, Francois or Carrion Emissary. 4 SS models that can attack from 28" away are scary, especially if we compare them to other 4 SS models, like Desperate Mercenaries or Guild Guards They don't attack from 28" away. Only 14". That'll probably go a long way towards getting rid of them appearing everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiba Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 59 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said: They don't attack from 28" away. Only 14". That'll probably go a long way towards getting rid of them appearing everywhere. Actually, that thread only deals with their Surprise! ability, I didn't see any mention that they can't do it as a normal attack during their own activation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santaclaws01 Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 3 hours ago, Gnomezilla said: They don't attack from 28" away. Only 14". That'll probably go a long way towards getting rid of them appearing everywhere. They can't attack with Surprise! from 28" away. They can still attack from 28" away just like the trapper can though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain_Konrad Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 I feel giving Collodi a gun would hurt a lot. If you want to control enemies and you are in NB with a lot of melee models, it makes his enemy controller aspect bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Give Tuco Tormented! Make Angel Eyes better too i guess. But mostly the Tuco thing so Jack Daw can take him, i don't wanna play neverborn but tuco is cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelshard Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 A on collodi would hurt a lot, but it would also make his new attack upgrade viable. The alternative would be to give my will a tn. May be just upping strum to two stones could be enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Give Pandora Terrifying 12 All built in to her base card and redo the Box Opens upgrade to be a viable take compared to Voices and Woe Is Me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccio Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Why not nerf Nekima to Ml6 or min damage at 3 istead 4 ? or limit to 1 the emissary hazardous terrains?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Loki- Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Piccio said: or limit to 1 the emissary hazardous terrains?. Am I missing something? The Lands Hunger specifically says 'If there are more than two friendly Hungry Lands Markers in play, remove one of them.' Or is this about both players being Neverborn dropping one each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccio Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 26 minutes ago, -Loki- said: Am I missing something? The Lands Hunger specifically says 'If there are more than two friendly Hungry Lands Markers in play, remove one of them.' Or is this about both players being Neverborn dropping one each? Emissary can have 2 marker at the same time. With 2 marker dropped in turn 1&2 in the right place in some strategies (guard the stash/extraction) usually you have to waste your control hand just to let your crew survive while moving near marker to take position for the strategy, don't forget marker is also a severe terrain and has a 3'' range too, so If you are near 2 mark you have to test 2 time, one for mark (you suffer hazardous one time each turn but for the same terrain, they're 2 different). In addiction NVB has a lot of built-in push triggers / lure /obey to increase the effect of markers and can also cheat initiative at the beginning of turn 2 if necessary to drop the 2nd marker in front of enemy crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca 2.0 Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 Hey guys just a question, the errata when will be released? They will nerf Gremlins/ ressers as i heard and buff neverborn for sure or it's just a wish list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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