Wave 5 and "New Resurrectionists Meta"

[TeddyBear]

As with Arcaniststs and Outcasts sections, how do you think wave 5 and new gg2018  are going to change our meta an why?

Thanks in advance

[Kinginyello]

well, yan lo will show up and not be consider subpar. That said the main playstyles of each masters, excluding ssamus, will be the same just with new faces doing the job better.

 

For instance nico has been buffed quite nicely with asura, but his game plan of summon all the things.

 

Now seamus gameplay might have changed, not sure if cute or effective. The guy can now jump in the middle of things and be quite scary while a burning crew goes to town getting more fire dudes summoning out, while carlos helps.

[Paddywhack]

Hmmm.. I'm not sure that much will change for us.

Nicodem - mostly the same play style - actually a boost to the summon engine if that's the way you play him with Asura. Their Last Breath might mean he includes some other models more often. I think Rafkin might see more play.

Yan Lo - yay! Now he plays like I think he was intended to and can actually be competitive and fun to play. He's going to see the biggest change. I played him before he was cool! I think we'll see him in tournaments and doing better this year overall. 

Molly - the same really. Being able to know Schemes will be a a huge boost in some pools, but I don't think her lists will change dramatically. 

McMourning - might see some changes with Beast/Academic lists, but I doubt you'll see it all that often or that it will significantly change his lists. 

Seamus - A slight boost to his power level, but still takes some finesse and not an easy master to excel with. You may actually see him on the table more, which is good.

Kirai - no changes really, not that she needed them.

Reva - no significant changes. I'm not sold that the Spirit upgrade is worth it at all. You might see a few lists go this way, but I think she will be largely unchanged. 

Tara - hard to tell. Might help boost her a bit, but as always she's stronger in Outcasts.

I do think the Kentaurai will change play style across the board. They offer some really nice abilities (even if they fold like a card house). Nicodem will go from summoning only Punk Zombies to alternating between Punk Zombies and Kentaurai based on need. They are also some of the best models Wyrd has ever produced IMO.

 

[Cedar]

Before I start ranking masters, I must talk about Asura Rotten, which is basically best model in this wave (if we don't count specific master-model interaction) and she can offer many things for any, or almost any Resser Master - Reva and Nico benefit sooo much from her, and while Molly and Tara not as much as previous two, they still can summon Necromancies/autopsies from free mindless zombies produced by this henchman. 

Yan Lo received solid buff. Probably biggest one among Ressers. Blood Ascendant is powerful offensive tool, and other two upgrades give him solid power boost.

Second must be Seamus - while AKA Sebastian Baker is weaker than Do You Know Who I Am? it offers new hiring/summoning abilities, and second upgrade is massive boost, especially for Sinister Reputation Seamus. 

Mc Mourning occupies third spot on my "biggest Resser buff" list. Guild coroner won't see much play, as Moonlightning, Plastic Surgery, Decaying Aura and Test Subjects are strictly better options. Speaking of test subjects - Scorpius, Kudra and Amina Naidu will see play with good old Doc, as they offer so much value for him.

Molly is next. While Forgotten Toys are not great upgrade, Back on the Job certainly is. Ability to see schemes before the game starts is great (although you can argue that top players will choose best possible schemes and other top players will guess what schemes they picked) and discarding enemy marker at range and drawing card is nice addition. 

Fifth place belongs to Tara. I wrote about her in Outcasts topic, so I just quote myself : "She received enormous boost in form of Emptiness and Out of Time. Both upgrades are powerful and are auto-include with her. Talos is good model, especially since it has damage track of 3/4/5, and 3 on weak was something that Tara's thematic crew was missing. "

Sadly, Reva, Nicodem and Kirai didn't received much from this wave. Both Kirai and Nico upgrades are meh and probably won't see much play. Reva's new limited upgrade is worse than other two, and Riders In The Sky suffers from one thing - Reva doesn't have free slots for upgrades - either of her limited are autotake, same as Litany Of The Fallen and Decaying Aura. Her Conflux is nice, but the fact that Emissary takes two damage each time she uses him as origin of attack causes MLH or even general Conflux to be better that her own.

[nomoredroids]

19 hours ago, Cedar said:

... Nico upgrades are meh and probably won't see much play. 

I think you're incorrect. Nico's ability to re-summon his totem and drop a scheme, while putting corpses on the board with barely any cost (trash cards in Round One), is certainly useful, if not great. But his ability to cause a living friendly to become Undead (thus benefiting from his buffs) while giving it a turn or two of life is SUPER GOOD. No, they don't alter Nico's playstyle. But the second, at least, opens Nico's hiring pool up to some of the models that he might not have taken before (Anna Lovelace, Rafkin, Sebastian) because there were always better undead models. So while it doesn't alter Nico himself, it IS going to significantly change what he takes into the game. 

[Cedar]

1 minute ago, nomoredroids said:

I think you're incorrect. Nico's ability to re-summon his totem and drop a scheme, while putting corpses on the board with barely any cost (trash cards in Round One), is certainly useful, if not great.

Resummoning Vultures doesn't seem very useful since you discard corpse marker, which could be used for summoning real threats.

3 minutes ago, nomoredroids said:

IBut his ability to cause a living friendly to become Undead (thus benefiting from his buffs) while giving it a turn or two of life is SUPER GOOD. No, they don't alter Nico's playstyle. But the second, at least, opens Nico's hiring pool up to some of the models that he might not have taken before (Anna Lovelace, Rafkin, Sebastian) because there were always better undead models. So while it doesn't alter Nico himself, it IS going to significantly change what he takes into the game. 

Unfortunately both Asura and Rafkin are probably his best options. It's nice addition, but I think that it won't be very strong for few reasons - first, you MUST attach this upgrade to any living model that dies in Nico's LOS. Enemy simply can kill nurse or even vulture first, then eliminate Rafkin, Anna or Asura without worrying about Superior Undead.

[nomoredroids]

2 minutes ago, Cedar said:

Resummoning Vultures doesn't seem very useful since you discard corpse marker, which could be used for summoning real threats.

Unfortunately both Asura and Rafkin are probably his best options. It's nice addition, but I think that it won't be very strong for few reasons - first, you MUST attach this upgrade to any living model that dies in Nico's LOS. Enemy simply can kill nurse or even vulture first, then eliminate Rafkin, Anna or Asura without worrying about Superior Undead.

Because summoning threats might help win games but it doesn't actually win games. A key scheme marker placed at range will win games. Especially late in the game. Remember that summons can't place Schemes the turn they're summoned. Besides, that's not the only reason you take the upgrade. You take it to avoid having to take the Mort + Spleen combo (which is a 10stone tax that I hate paying). 

Why are we assuming we're taking ALL the living models? I can assure you a list with a Nurse, Vulture, Rafkin, Anna, and Asura isn't going to win you any games with Nico. And it has nothing to do with underwhelming upgrades. 

[wizuriel]

imo Kentauroi are going to really change ressers.

They offer a lot of speed to help a faction that is generally pretty slow and few ranged attacks. 

[Paddywhack]

23 minutes ago, Cedar said:

Resummoning Vultures doesn't seem very useful since you discard corpse marker, which could be used for summoning real threats.

If you hadn't noticed, you can also summon in multiple Vultures with the upgrade. It only sacrifices other non-vulture totems. You could have 2-3 Vultures on the table. Ignore Slow from all over and the possibility of Eyes and Ears. I've never taken the Vulture before (always dies too quick with one), but this upgrade might see me bringing or summoning them in more often. It opens up a longer range summon option for Nicodem. Most people like to stay within 6 of Nicodem to summon to avoid Slow and maybe companion, but with Vulture(s) you could summon further away and still avoid Slow. 

I'll agree it's not ground breaking or OMG amazing, but I think you might actually see some Vultures on the table now. Plus it gives you something to summon on turns you have crappy hands or no Crows (or a mid Ram to get the scheme marker).

[Cedar]

19 minutes ago, nomoredroids said:

Why are we assuming we're taking ALL the living models? I can assure you a list with a Nurse, Vulture, Rafkin, Anna, and Asura isn't going to win you any games with Nico. And it has nothing to do with underwhelming upgrades. 

But you probably will take Vulture with Nico and one more living model. Killing Vulture will cause Superior Undead to be attached to the bird, and on that is probably a wasted upgrade.

 

1 minute ago, Paddywhack said:

 

I'll agree it's not ground breaking or OMG amazing, but I think you might actually see some Vultures on the table now. Plus it gives you something to summon on turns you have crappy hands or no Crows (or a mid Ram to get the scheme marker).

This upgrade is in my opinion better than Superior Undead, but still it's not as good as most Broken Promises master upgrades, unfortunately. 

[Paddywhack]

3 minutes ago, Cedar said:

But you probably will take Vulture with Nico and one more living model. Killing Vulture will cause Superior Undead to be attached to the bird, and on that is probably a wasted upgrade.

Really? To this point I have never seen the Vulture on the table. Ever. I've only take it once over a year ago and quickly stopped. Most often I take almost all Undead with Nicodem. Superior Undead opens it up a bit. It's also like a super Hard to Kill for an important model. If you are worried about it, you can certainly plan your crew build with this in mind. It also allows you to be super aggressive with one living model as you don't care too much if dies turn 2. 

[nomoredroids]

1 minute ago, Cedar said:

But you probably will take Vulture with Nico and one more living model. Killing Vulture will cause Superior Undead to be attached to the bird, and on that is probably a wasted upgrade.

 

This upgrade is in my opinion better than Superior Undead, but still it's not as good as most Broken Promises master upgrades, unfortunately. 

I can't even tell if you're serious anymore. Why "probably?" There are no mandatory purchases. Arguing that an upgrade is bad by saying "but you probably will take Vulture with Nico and one more living model" is pretty weak. For one, I definitely won't.  Because, you know, I want to win and design a crew that works.

To be more clear, saying Superior Undead is bad because you're going to take a crew that doesn't work with it is such a poor argument that I can't believe you're even making it. If I said Sebastian is a terrible model because I'll probably not take models that give out Poison with him, you'd just look at me like I was insane. 

Finally, in practice, Superior Undead is actually awesome. There's very little that allows a model to just not be dead when it should be. Your opponent's work, and AP, is wasted. It costs you 2SS, no AP to do, and very little effort to keep it in LoS. Plus, it immediately allows the model to benefit from Nico's Undead buffs. It is such a great Upgrade that I doubt I'll ever make a Nico list without it. 

[Cedar]

Ok, I admit, it was pretty stupid point. I'm still not sold on either of these upgrades, however, I think that Nicodem received bigger boost in Broken Promises in form of Asura and Undead he can summon.

[nomoredroids]

2 minutes ago, Cedar said:

Ok, I admit, it was pretty stupid point. I'm still not sold on either of these upgrades, however, I think that Nicodem received bigger boost in Broken Promises in form of Asura and Undead he can summon.

I don't disagree!  Nico doesn't really need upgrades. In fact, I often take him without any. But Malifaux isn't played on an upwards scale, and there's no list that's an auto-win. These upgrades are about flexibility and digging into the niches the masters inhabited, not power-bumps. Unless you're Seamus/Yan-Lo. 

[hydranixx]

Yan Lo and Seamus got the biggest 'buffs'. Their new upgrades substantially increase what they can bring to the table. Aside from them, there aren't any auto include upgrades in the wave for us, and none of them drastically change a master. Our upgrades overall weren't enormous compared to what some other factions got, and I think it's because we're in a pretty good spot overall. We don't have any Collodis or Sandeeps or Nellies blotting out competition. I'm not even sure we have a tier list of masters anymore. I've found it kind of difficult to transition from playing Ressurectionists to another faction if you enjoy the 'balanced' feel that we have. 

I'm very excited to try our new models, but I kind of hate it too because my wallet is going to suffer. Asura is huge. We definitely won big when we scored her. She's going to shake up our meta a lot, particularly with Nicodem & the Emissary. The Bone Pile is a bit of a niche pick but could function perfectly fine as a more mobile and more durable Big Jake with better faction synergies. I don't see it drastically changing much.

Little Gasser just seems really efficient at his job for his soulstone cost, and if you were going to hire 2 or 3 Canine Remains or Autopsies as McMourning you may as well make at least some of them Little Gassers instead. He might see some hire or summon play with Nico as well. People are ranting and raving about hiring Academics and Beasts with McMourning, and I'm thinking, well yes those are interesting, but this little undead Gremlin you've just been offered is amazing with him and he doesn't require upgrade slots either.

Lampads are a bit weird, but also have a really appealing set of abilities and actions. I look forward to trying to make them work. They could be especially cool with Kirai since, if I recall correctly, they're both Spirit and Undead. She can reposition them as required, and Malevolence will make them quite tricky for the opponent since they're always gonna be high priority targets. I don't see them shifting our meta all that much, though.

Kentauroi on the other hand... In my humble opinion they're the single most impactful addition our faction received from Wave 5. Not only are they quick, they significantly boost the speed of other models without using cards, including 7 of our 8 masters. They have a huge threat range, they can use Corpses or produce Corpses as you see fit, they can't be tied down as easily as usual hitters. My Nicodem will now feature Love Thy Master for the express purpose of summoning them as long ranged, corpse producing missiles. I'm hiring at least out 1 with him for movement purposes too, and Molly is probably hiring between 2 and 3 every game in the near future.

As for the discussion on Nicodem? Their Last Breath is viable and if you build the crew correctly, it could be a perfect fit. I don't think it's anywhere near auto pick. We don't really have any powerhouse Living models that can categorically abuse it, and since it stipulates Living Ressurectionist model we can't bring something in from another faction to faceroll. Rafkin is probably a good, but I think bringing back Lovelace could be amazing in the right circumstances. Circling Buzzards... I don't know. 2 cards for a Corpse or 4 cards for 2 Corpses once per game seems a niche sell for the upgrade slot and SS. If the active didn't require me to kill Graveyard Spirit or Malifaux Child I'd be more inclined to like it. Vulture is nice, but I prefer both other totems for the same price, when I bother with a totem at all. 

[hydranixx]

So I played Nicodem with one hired Kentauroi last night, and I am confident in my assertion that it was a good choice. It didn't disappoint whatsoever and I could see myself hiring one most games with him in addition to summoning as many as required.

Early on, my hired one repositioned Nico, and charged to give me a Corpse Marker and Head Marker. Before it could activate again though, it was debuffed heavily by Brewmaster and co. So it just Walked, barely more than a few cm, shifting Phillip and the Nanny over 5" with that tasty Zombie Steed ability, positioning them for a 3VP Set Up later in the turn, and picked up the Head marker it produced earlier. A turn later of failing to do anything (thanks Drinking Contest) was lame, and eventually it died to poison (that new Brewmaster Barkeep upgrade is painful and does a great Sebastian impression) but all the same it had a great first outing.

A summoned Kentauroi (12crow and a Corpse feels very affordable for them) later picked Nico up over the heads of 3 other models, taking him out of Brewie's Drinking Contest Aura. That Ht3 is super useful for rescuing key models. Again this one only nudged a few cm in total but that was enough to essentially place Nico 4" out of harm's way. Later it (0)'d to charge out of the scrum and take out a Tanuki to give me access to my third Head marker. 

Thoughts on Kentauroi?

Well before actually playing them I thought they'd be heavy cavalry that want to keep charging all game. Maybe use Zombie Steed once and then just galavant around killing as much as possible and then dying. After this game I realised their charges, while decent, are only the tip of the iceberg. There's so much value to be had from their Zombie Steed ability. At its most basic function it can place almost any friendly model up to 8" + the size of their base without asking you to perform any flips or make any discards, and you can do this every time you Walk. Their abilities to either create Corpses for other models to use, or use up surplus Corpses to heal, can be invaluable. Having access to a summonable 3" Melee reach Minion is great for Nico and probably Horror Molly too though she is still likely going to favour Punk Zombies.

I had high hopes and they exceeded them. I'll say two thumbs up from me, and thanks to Wyrd for giving us these wonderful things! 

[Spyrer]

I've had 1 outing with kentauroi so far, and they have deffo been worth it, even though i only summoned them. Was standard Reconnoiter with claim jump, leave your mark, dig their graves and last stand. First turn I had an amazing hand and summoned 2 kentauroi and a draugr (still using Morty with corpse bloat and my little helper because i find first turn is really important for summoning), I used malifaux child to give one of the kentauroi fast and carried nico with it a bit up the board and charged and killed a tengu. the other one zombie steeded my nurse up the board a bit so i could give misaki paralyzing meds (held her paralyzed for 3 turns). Next turn the first kentauroi ate a corpse and charged johan, the otherone i gave fast with malifaux child and carried philip and the nanny up the board to stop opponents claim jump and the kentauroi laid a claim jump marker for me. Johan killed the kentauroi, after which nico summoned up 3 mindless zombies from the corpses it had left and used one to make a punk zombie. the punk zombie together with the draugr killed johan leaving only shadow effigy on that side of the board, which i destroyed turn 3 by bouncing blasts off my mindless zombies with nico stopping his inspection. turn 4 i summoned a third kentauroi, gave it fast and had it charge over to the otherside of the board. and on turn 5 it blocked off a charge from misaki. I lost nicodem and a punk zombie to a misaki charge turn 5 but it didnt matter anymore. won the game 10-3.

[hydranixx]

Great stuff. Another flawless outing from our new ponies by the sounds?

In the latest event I entered they came in clutch for me again. 2 hired Kentauroi carried Molly to a 7-2 victory in Round 1, while a combined total of 4 summoned Kentauroi repositioned Nicodem and Phillip through narrow cave passages and tied up enemies in Round 3 for a 9-3 victory.

Asura seems to warping the entire faction for most of us but for me I'm still on the Kentauroi honeymoon lol.

 

[Verdeloth]

I have allways loved backyard masters to be able to support and just flood the board with minions. 

I have never liked the aggresive way of playing malifaux (or any game for that matter). Im a switcher player and i

 own more masters that i want to admit i do  

 

Nicodem is my most played master in resser and he fits my playstyle perfectly however my local meta 

like to play alot of high tier masters and many of them are agressive. I have tried out Nico

in a few games with new upgrades and models and his backyard playstyle is hurting me alot now. 

Recently i have played against leveticus, von schill and sandeep and all of the games 

have been a struggle, all of the games because of the slow turn 1½ turn of nicos before 

you have either fully started your engine or it have been neutralized the opponent have already

reached and holding the key points of the board and then its up to me to try to do my all for 

regain some foothold in the scheme positions. 

There will almost never be a turn 2 when i will be able to score both schemes and the strategy meanwhile the opponent

already dominate and outnumber every "normal" position without contest so it will just be up to them to hold

that position as long as they can and i have to work SUPER hard to tie them on VP on future turns. Many times 

i just wont have the time or cards to do any more summons at all because of the pure preassure i need to put on

my opponent to regain control. 

I want the asura - nico - mortimer - emissery list to work but ye, so far with my recent games asura been killed so fast

everygame without been able to do any real mindless zombie fun actions. 

 

I had better luck with Kirai but i dont have enough games with her to fully utilize her true power yet,

she just have so much things to remember and to do all the placements correct is hard! She is a force to be reckon

with, not so much a backyard master but this helps her alot because she can go up fast and contest all the key points of the board almost as quickly

as most other masters. 

 

next up im planing to try out a couple of Mc mourning and seamus games and see how they work out, have yet to played either of them 

at all but think its going to be intressting. 

 

Reva is allways reva, she is also a nice backyard master but not as much control as i like. Also had games with her when she practicly did nothing for turn 1 and 2

because the enemy just danced around and pushed himself around my corpse markers until he couldnt anymore on turn 3 so i could start layout some beating.

But for a master for 2 turns just sit there and pass is the worst feeling for me.

 

Never tried yan lo or tara and probably wont have time for it either

 

[hydranixx]

@Verdeloth I play a lot of Nicodem too. It's difficult to hold back hyper aggressive players with Nicodem when so many of your soulstones are spent in support models. How often do you hire some muscle to fight back early? I find Rogue Necromancy and Graveyard Spirit go a long way to stopping most aggression and then countering back. Leveticus is particularly frustrating since his attack gets around Armour, HtK and HtW, and his WP is high so he doesn't really care about Terrifying, but he can't solely tackle your whole crew. 

I agree that Reva can feel a little lacklustre early game, especially Turn 1. For that very reason the few times I've played her I opted to take Beyond Death to get that free Charge trigger and a full cache to keep her healthy, letting her commit really hard towards the end of Turn 1. The results have been middling, but I think in your meta it'd do even better since your opponent are going straight for the throat. 

I'm keen to try that Mortimer+Reva+Spare Parts build to see how that feels. It's fairly easy to spawn a Rogue Necromancy on the first turn, which sounds hilarious. 

@aquenaton I think Emissary's Reaper Conflux is interesting but probably not worth taking. It promotes mobility which is always welcome, but he's already Wk6 with Flight, playing a supporting role a lot of the time (especially in a Reva crew). Shooting through him like he's a Corpse is good and bad at the same time. With Ht 3 on both the Emissary and Reva you can shoot from it from basically anywhere but you're chunking a model that's 1/5 of your ss limit just to do that. I've always considered Carrion Conflux very good by virtue of our amazing Minions. Even a single Rotten Belle and/or Nurse in the list makes Carrion Conflux a very appealing choice and I don't think Reaper Conflux will edge out over it most of the time.