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Im planning on fielding 4-Rider Levi.

I really like the fluffyness and style of the 4 Riders BUT... im not sure how competitiv this list might be or wether its an Im-auto-getting-my-ass-swiped list i won't have any fun with.

Next which 4SS constructs should i get for mechrider and which upgrades would you recommend slapping on Levi?

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I actually only run this version of Levi as it's the only one that interests me so I've probably played a dozen or more games using this build.

Unfortunately since I started running it, it's gotten a few cuddles in the form of the Levi errata and now the mech rider errata. However I do find that the gaining ground documents have made the biggest impact on the competitiveness of this list.

First rule to remember is that this kind of list is fun first and competitive second. That's not to say that it cant do well but it does have some really great matchups and some really hard counters. It can also be very unforgiving in that one poorly spaced rider can see 1/4 of your list disappear. Overall the riders are not actually very good 12ss models and most 10-11ss models will outperform them due to their relatively slow build. It's not until turn 3-4 where I feel like they actually behave like a 12ss model should (mech being the exception)

Here are some tips I've learned

  • Learn the strength of each rider and stick to it. Each has a purpose, some are more expendable than others.
  • Use Levi aggressively to try and alleviate the pressure from the riders themselves.
  • Make sure you prioritize your targets. Use Levi to try and take out the big threat early on. Defense through offence
  • Dont be afraid to spend the first turn or two hiding. You have speed, use it to your advantage.
  • Build your hand. There are hardly any bad cards in this list so spend a turn or two getting what you need so that your leaving nothing to chance when you do finally commit.

Those 4ss you have left over can be crucial. There is actually a lot you can do with 4ss that will have a huge impact on your list. My favorites tend to be:

  • Summon upgrades for Levi. Mech provides scrap hopefully turn 2 but otherwise I prefer to use his shooting one as it doesn't interfere with his damage output
  • Hodgepodge effigy. You can usually end up getting your investment back and it gives a bit more activation control
  • 3x oathkeepers. Fast Riders can get work done. Likewise you can use it on Levi for early pressure on key threats.
  • Now there are new upgrades that are worth considering as well. For example you can use scheme markers dropped by Mech to summon more waifs.

Dont forget you get 1AP on the emissary so use it wisely. Whether that is using it's (0) to push and (1) to walk to get a rider into position. Or to give another rider a trinket. Here are my favorites:

  • Regen +1 on Pale Rider. Combined with his healing, it makes him fairly tanky.
  • Companion on either Pale, Dead, or Hooded Rider. Chain activating two riders is often enough to kill most models before they get to retaliate. Mech doesn't really need it and is often too far away to make use of it anyway
  • Reactivate on any rider. Late game this can be insane. Obviously it's only smart if your on low Wds but getting that extra activation on turn 3 or 4 can be extreme. My personal favorite is Hooded since he can always declare his triggers for extra damage.
  • I don't often take DMM as I feel like spending AP on riders to interact is a waist. It's good if you absolutely need it but in all honesty you shouldn't be taking interact heavy schemes with this list.

Hope this helps. I love running this list and even though I lost many of my early games you eventually learn how to play it and get good with it. My advice is to stick with it and don't be discouraged if you loose many of your early games. It's not a bad list if you know how and when to use it.

 

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5 minutes ago, Jordon said:

Learn the strength of each rider and stick to it. Each has a purpose, some are more expendable than others.

Out of interest, what do ARE the riders strengths and roles in the crew? I have never played with a rider before, and I've only played against Mechanical Rider (well, I played against Pale Rider in a campaign, but it didn't do anything and then the Strongarm Suit punched it a new one).

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33 minutes ago, apes-ma said:

Out of interest, what do ARE the riders strengths and roles in the crew? I have never played with a rider before, and I've only played against Mechanical Rider (well, I played against Pale Rider in a campaign, but it didn't do anything and then the Strongarm Suit punched it a new one).

Hooded Rider can truck out some damage if it gets the chance. Its probably the meanest of the bunch but it gets out performed by mature nephilim and Nekima in its own faction.

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In terms of value here is how I rank them

1) Mech Rider - She is the VP scorer whether it's dropping scheme markers or summoning models to accomplish schemes. She also keeps your activation control strong. Also she has a decent ranged attack which keeps her safer while still being able to commit. In short, she is often what actually wins games. As for what to summon, I personally like fire gamin as they can stay safe and deal with scheme runners, but i've ended summoning everything for various reasons at certain points.

2) Pale Rider - He's probably the most well rounded of the riders with his scaling damage, ranged attack, healing and scheme marker placement. His role often changes depending on what I need. He's the most flexible so I try to play him a little more conservative. If you give him regen (trinket) and combine that with his healing, he's definitely the tankiest of the riders, while still being able to hit pretty hard from both range and melee. The gun is nice early game when you don't want to fully commit him but later on I switch him to melee for the healing. Also his ability to drop markers makes him a great scheme runner and gunner as well and the high ranged damage make him a decent scheme runner killer.

3) Hooded Rider - I like hooded as mid game front liner. The damage scales pretty nicely mid-late game but I find it's his other abilities that give him a little more utility over Dead. He's got some anti-marker on his attacks which can deny opponents VP or other abilities. Also I love his (0) and use it as a Levi taxi so I'm not wasting as much AP walking with Levi. His 3" is also awesome at locking down models and is much of a defense bonus as it is offense.

4) Dead Rider - I use him as the early game front liner. His damage doesn't scale very well but early game it's better than the other riders due to the higher min damage and ability to get an extra attack. I use him to go after the biggest threats early on, but this also means he's often the first to die. His trigger to pull models is also good early on to isolate models and bring them closer to Levi. Again dont forget to use that 3" to lock down models and force them to waste AP.

They're all important but I usually assume Dead and Hooded wont survive to the end of the game and that's alright as long as they fufill their roles.

 

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On 19/09/2017 at 11:46 AM, Nukemouse said:

I believe @daniello_s had some battle reports of 4 rider levi on his levi blog http://fiftyshadesofleviandjack.blogspot.com.au/

Yeah, I played few times this crew before so this is what I found about it:

1. Turn 1 is positioning. Try to avoid fight unless you kill enemy model AND your Rider will be safe after at the start of turn 2.

2. Protect Mech Rider at all cost. She is your scheme runner and model who will build up your crew in time. Opponent will know that and will try to kill her ASAP. Keep her safe for at least 2 turns.

3. Remember that conditions are your nemezis and some match ups will be a horror for you (i.e. McMourning and his Poison bomb).  Burning is also painful.

4. Hooded and Dead Riders are your beaters. Turn 3+ don't hesitate to use them as disrupting tools for your opponent. Let him focus on them and do your schemes with Pale and Mech Riders.

 

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1 hour ago, Nukemouse said:

@daniello_s Did your experience with them in that format make you think Dead Rider had potential as a real model outside of this fun list?

It is quite interesting model and I used him once or twice outside of 4-horsemen list (just like other riders). He performed pretty good as flanker cleaning everything in his path but I think A&D beats him easily in this task.

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I feel like all of the riders except Mech are underwhelming in their own factions. The problem is that they start off so weak and only get worthwhile late game. Other models don't have that problem and remain at a constant power level. They probably start at a 7 - 8ss level and it's not until 3 - 4 until they are doing they work of a 12ss model. Many of their triggers seem to have heavy restrictions placed on them such as "once per turn" which really stunts them from exceeding anything beyond 11 - 12ss. Again Mech is really the only exception and I feel is worthy of its 12ss price tag.

The Riders also have a lot of counters and it just gets worst as more models are released. Any models that either ignore reductions or have any sort of passive damage will chew right through these models as all they have is their Df trigger going for them. 

Luckily I do find Levi to be the perfect compliment to run with them as he comes with his own activation control to help offset having 4 high costed models. Also he is a master who doesn't need help from his crew and operates just fine with little to no support. Lastly if you play him aggressive (which you should) then the opponent is usually too busy reacting to Levi more than the riders which is exactly what you want to happen. 

This is not an easy list to run and it really rewards experience. Knowing what the opposing crew does is absolutely the most important thing if you want to achieve reliable success. Take out the models that will cause the biggest threat and use your speed to dictate where YOU want the fights to happen.

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On 9/21/2017 at 3:00 PM, Nukemouse said:

@daniello_s Did your experience with them in that format make you think Dead Rider had potential as a real model outside of this fun list?

Ant Hoult (one of the most accomplished UK players) thought (maybe still does but this was before Wave 4) that Dead Rider is the Ressers' best beatstick. There was a thread about it.

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Offensively, Dead Rider isn't terrible due to his speed. Certainly Ressers have harder hitting models, but none that are as fast as a Rider (although Valedictorian is close).

However speed is not really all that important when your basically spending the first two turns hiding anyway. I feel like Izamu does way more damage while also being fairly tanky right out of the box which makes him a more common pick. Consistency is king in Malifaux and that is where the riders struggle. 

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  • 1 month later...

I like the idea of running this, the only issue is that I don't have a lot (well any) arcanists minions for the mech rider to summon. From looking at the battle reports and things, it seems that arachnids are - or at least were - the go to summons.

If I was going to just pick up one box of things to summon for now, would people recommend arachnids?

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26 minutes ago, gribble said:

I like the idea of running this, the only issue is that I don't have a lot (well any) arcanists minions for the mech rider to summon. From looking at the battle reports and things, it seems that arachnids are - or at least were - the go to summons.

If I was going to just pick up one box of things to summon for now, would people recommend arachnids?

For sure. Arachnids are the must durable and probably versatile of the group. They can run and do schemes or lock down models for -1 Df if need be. Also they are df6 with armor, takes more than 1 AP to remove them most of the time. 

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I love the Riders list! 
I have had some success with it at various tourneys. Went 1 - 2 at the 2017 Adepticon Story Encounter, and 1 - 1 at another smaller local tourney. All of my losses were close games. The list is pretty versatile and one big tool box, but it takes a few games to unlock. I think spiders were my most common Mech Rider summons.

Have fun with it!

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10 hours ago, gribble said:

If I was going to just pick up one box of things to summon for now, would people recommend arachnids?

My go to summon is typically fire gamin as they hit the hardest and are able to commit to fights from ranged - which is typically where I keep mech rider. However I've summoned them all for various reasons at some point or another. 

You can't really go wrong with arachnids though. They're good scheme runners and the -1Df ability is really handy in a list full of killers

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So, contrasting Fire Gamin and Arachnids, I don't really see what makes the Arachnids so much better as scheme runners? Admittedly I am fairly new to the game, so I'm probably missing something...

They are the same (not spectacular) speed, and have no abilities that interact with scheme markers... is it just their added durability and ability to move freely through severe terrain?

Are there other good general purpose summons to consider, or are the rest very dependent on specific situations?

Also, I picked up the Levi Avatar to use as the emissary in the first turn (I don't like the look of the hodgepodge emissary)... how exactly does that work? As it's a proxy, I assume it means I will have two Levi models on the table the first round of the game (the actual master and the emissary), then remove the emissary/avatar model? I assume it's not legal to remove the standard Levi model instead, given the differing base sizes (the Avatar model suits the horsemen theme better)? How about if I was able to mount the model on a removable base and switch to a small base?

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1 hour ago, gribble said:

So, contrasting Fire Gamin and Arachnids, I don't really see what makes the Arachnids so much better as scheme runners? Admittedly I am fairly new to the game, so I'm probably missing something...

They are the same (not spectacular) speed, and have no abilities that interact with scheme markers... is it just their added durability and ability to move freely through severe terrain?

Those are two significant differences, and arguably the Unimpeded is the most important on some tables. But the Df of 6 vs 4 has a bigger impact than just durability. It means that it's significantly harder to stop the Arachnids from disengaging.

And against some (admittedly only a few) crews, Evasive (immunity to pulse) can make them significantly harder.

Also, there's almost no chance of them ever literally blowing up in your face. Had one game when I was starting where I had three Fire Gamin hurt my own crew (including one blowing up a second wounded one, both hitting a third model), because I placed stupidly. That was back in 1st Ed when the Demise was 2 Damage. Not much risk using them as scheme runners, but it's something to consider in close placements.

EDIT: And while it's rare as hell for it to come up, the ability to Swarm Together (and use Devouring Swarm) is also a consideration.

It's not something I'd be worried about if I didn't own Arachnids but did own Fire Gamin. But if you own both, more often than not the Arachnids are superior for this purpose.

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32 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Those are two significant differences, and arguably the Unimpeded is the most important on some tables. But the Df of 6 vs 4 has a bigger impact than just durability. It means that it's significantly harder to stop the Arachnids from disengaging.

...

It's not something I'd be worried about if I didn't own Arachnids but did own Fire Gamin. But if you own both, more often than not the Arachnids are superior for this purpose.

Cool, that does make sense - I hadn't thought about disengaging (as I said, newish player). :)

Well, I own neither, and I'm not likely to pick up a full Arcanists crew for a while (if ever) - I'm mainly sticking to Outcasts and TT, with a little Ressers... and if I do branch out beyond those 3, Neverborn would likely be next. Though I've found it's pretty hard to stick to just the one faction, so never say never I guess. Well played Wyrd...

Anyway, back on track, if I don't currently have any suitable Arcanist minions, and would prefer to pick up the minimum I need for the riders, it sounds like Arachnids are the best way to go for general purpose summons? They do kind of fit the Mech Rider aesthetic better than Gamin as well, so that's an extra point in their favor.

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32 minutes ago, gribble said:

Anyway, back on track, if I don't currently have any suitable Arcanist minions, and would prefer to pick up the minimum I need for the riders, it sounds like Arachnids are the best way to go for general purpose summons? They do kind of fit the Mech Rider aesthetic better than Gamin as well, so that's an extra point in their favor.

With this line of thinking, I definitely suggest the Arachnids. 
If you do end up getting into Arcanists, you will likely end up with the Ramos box, which comes with 3 spiders as well. If you already have 3 from a small box, it is okay, because Ramos can actually get use out of 6 spiders. 
By comparison, you will get 3 Fire Gamin in the Kaeris box. Last I checked, she doesn't need more than that. 

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