Mah the best hand advantage master!

[edopersichetti]

On 9/12/2017 at 11:39 AM, lame0 said:

Weird to call it wasted I mean it's not like she's sitting around. she can move 13 inches (and move a friend) and even without Lenny to summon she could just have a 6 card hand of all 10+ going into turn two with 75% certainty. Another nice way to look at it is 75.5% of the time doing this you end up with 3 12+s. Also the way mah plays she wants to get that +1 ml so it also let's you get a mid level rams card to cheat in with trixie.

One thing about the bigger hat than you comparison is that it is still very enemy dependant while Mah's interactions are with herself. I do like the encouragement + somer + emissary to get bigger hat than you off and basically Making bayous great suicidal shooters. Also don't get me wrong I still think somer is a better master by quite a bit but I like seeing what's available and what can give masters like mah an edge. (Somer does basically everything and is in the top 1-2 at every roll in Gremlins so I don't thing he's a great guy to compare to.)

I mean honestly the tier list is still more or less unchanged (except ulix I like him better than Wong now). I do like that I can at least see myself using the top 6 masters without feeling like I have no chance without somer.

IMO

T1 

Somer, Zipp, Ulix

T2

Wong, Zoraida = Mah

T3 

Ophelia, Brewmaster

 

I disagree because:

On 9/12/2017 at 3:43 PM, Math Mathonwy said:

Have you tried the current Ophelia? I think that she is pretty comfortably T2. She still has access to 2SS models and her two new Upgrades are both good (and free for her if she does take those 2SS models). I think that she is pretty good.

this. And

On 9/12/2017 at 4:46 PM, daniello_s said:

Ulix in T1??? Why? 

Wong in T2??? Why?

This.
At this point, even talking about tiers is premature since we need to see what GG18 will actually be. I think we just have a large pool of masters that are all viable, the utility of Somer's outactivation and Ulix's summoning for example could be severely impacted by a more kill/elite oriented pool of schemes and strats. But Ophelia is easily T2 and Mah is much improved, if anything I see just Brewie behind everyone else and the other ones all have a chance at being fairly competitive. Even Zoraida: she's situational but has potential.

[edopersichetti]

On 9/13/2017 at 8:35 AM, lame0 said:

I have nothing against a list like this but it just does less than the summoned war pigs in the aionus list. A war pig getting an extra ap is huge if it starts it's activation next to old major because it then becomes very possible that the two attacks off a charge could kill its target. if it does that it can keep charging and eliminating the enemy's models. I'm a huge fan of corn husks and Penelope are amazing(wish my list had room). The Hunting bow is cool but for 2ss I have a hard time justifying it since I feel like the attack is a filler if ulix has nothing better to do and the other action to make a pig charge isn't the best unless you take Gracie or the sow (like you are) because for a war pig you are trading 1 master ap for one 1 minion ap.

Last thing I never really understood was why people want so many big pigs to start (maybe for the hunting bow) because otherwise I feel like I'd rather more of our "strong" models (Burt & Franc).

I agree with this but the one benefit of getting the rams with the emissary is that it doesn't impact your flip total for initiative. I think that's pretty valuable since you don't have to make the weird trade of having to go second to get the +1 ml (pretty important on a combat master). 

I tried to include the emissary but tbh if I was going to take a different high stone model over Lenny with the crier I'd prefer aionus.

Something like:

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Mah Tucket + 4 Pool
 - Manifest Destiny (1)
 - Know The Terrain (1)
Aionus (13)
Gremlin Crier (7)
The Sow (8)
Slop Hauler (5)
Lightning Bug (5)
Lightning Bug (5)
Lightning Bug (5)

This list still let's you summon turn 1 between aionus and the sow (use midnight to make an enemy scheme marker and turn it into a piglet). Then you have a bunch of 4 ap minions and a 3 ap sow ready to engage. Not in love with this but it's another way to go (aionus is better with somer and ulix).

I like starting with big pigs because they're all valuable and you can't summon them...having big pigs allows you to summon tons of piglets, too. Old Major is a staple, then I take usually 2 between Sow, Gracie, Porkchop, depending on what I need and how many SS I have.

I have a question: your list sounds fun (or unfun, if it's your opponent) but how do you manage to drop 3 scheme markers with Merris and 3 with Aionus on a single turn? They have to be each 4" apart...or am I missing something? Also, what's the benefit of having Aionus in the first place?

[edopersichetti]

17 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

I like starting with big pigs because they're all valuable and you can't summon them...having big pigs allows you to summon tons of piglets, too. Old Major is a staple, then I take usually 2 between Sow, Gracie, Porkchop, depending on what I need and how many SS I have.

I have a question: your list sounds fun (or unfun, if it's your opponent) but how do you manage to drop 3 scheme markers with Merris and 3 with Aionus on a single turn? They have to be each 4" apart...or am I missing something? Also, what's the benefit of having Aionus in the first place?

Ok I see, your idea is to give everyone fast using Aionus and pick up the discarded cards putting wounds on the Crier. So yes, a Fast, Reckless Merris can technically drop 4 scheme markers in the right place. Then Aionus would need to use midnight and a 10 of tomes (or a 10 and SS). He also moves the markers bunched up together so Ulix can summon easily. Fast Reckless Slop heal a bunch of stuff.

Ok, so I see now, the whole thing is at least technically possible. Still, it requires very careful positioning, a very good hand (at least a 10, two12s for the pigs and a 9 for the piglet), also the Crier needs to constantly be within 3 of everyone...I have to try this on a board with the actual models and do a few simulations, it might work, it seems quite extreme. Which is alright, since if the whole thing was guaranteed, it would be the kind of thing that attracts erratas

p.s. you seem to be a big fan of Aionus - it's on your every list. Did you have much success with him? I have one and I never even tried him...the 13SS cost always defeated me. It might be good to get some use out of him...

[green-n-dumb]

Hello!
Don't want to start a new topic so i'll ask here.
Few days ago bought Mah box for Trixie and want to test her.
Always played Somer so don't even have idea how to build and play melee crew like Mah's.
I have Somer, Ophelia, Wong, Brew boxes, pigapult, haulers, burt jebsen+gracie, merris, sammy, swine cursed, taxidermists, old cranky.

[HellecticMojo]

5 hours ago, green-n-dumb said:

Hello!
Don't want to start a new topic so i'll ask here.
Few days ago bought Mah box for Trixie and want to test her.
Always played Somer so don't even have idea how to build and play melee crew like Mah's.
I have Somer, Ophelia, Wong, Brew boxes, pigapult, haulers, burt jebsen+gracie, merris, sammy, swine cursed, taxidermists, old cranky.

so... what's the question?

[green-n-dumb]

1 hour ago, HellecticMojo said:

so... what's the question?

Oh
Can i build 50ss crew with my miniatures?

[Ikiwith]

4 minutes ago, green-n-dumb said:

Oh
Can i build 50ss crew with my miniatures?

This could be a example :-).

 

50 SS Gremlins Crew
Mah Tucket + 5 Pool
 - Know The Terrain (1)
 - Manifest Destiny (1)
 - Lead Lined Apron (2)
The Little Lass (4)
 - Pit Traps (0)
Trixibelle (8)
Francois LaCroix (7)
 - Stilts (1)
Burt Jebsen (7)
 - Dirty Cheater (1)
Lightning Bug (5)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)
Bayou Gremlin (3)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

[Clement]

I don't know if I'm sold on pit traps for the lass.  I feel like she should still carry the armor and still die gloriously like she used to.  A good spot to consider for the pit traps would be Sammy if you don't want to put them on Mah from the get go.

[HellecticMojo]

10 hours ago, Clement said:

I don't know if I'm sold on pit traps for the lass.  I feel like she should still carry the armor and still die gloriously like she used to.  A good spot to consider for the pit traps would be Sammy if you don't want to put them on Mah from the get go.

Do people even bother killing little lass? I did that exactly once and proceeded to have LL be a complete waste as Mah was Immedietly focused on with zero attention to the lass.

I do think that lass is bit weird in AP economy with the trap since she can't really fight and trap together.

[Clement]

1 minute ago, HellecticMojo said:

Do people even bother killing little lass? I did that exactly once and proceeded to have LL be a complete waste as Mah was Immedietly focused on with zero attention to the lass.

I do think that lass is bit weird in AP economy with the trap since she can't really fight and trap together.

My regular opponents will try to pop off the lass because I *will* kill her for Do It Right so Mah can be even more brutal when she wheels into combat for real.

[anumberone]

3 hours ago, Clement said:

My regular opponents will try to pop off the lass because I *will* kill her for Do It Right so Mah can be even more brutal when she wheels into combat for real.

 That's a good idea that I should try some time. Certainly worth doing if Mah has something she really needs dead. 

 I'm definitely finding Mah and the crier are shaping my hands out to be crazy good most turns. 

[edopersichetti]

So two things I need to try: the crazy Ulix list with Aionus, and Mah with the new upgrades + Criers. I have a game today so I'll give it a go and post it here, probably. 

I tried the Ulix list in solo and it worked most of the time...it remains to be seen how useful it is in an actual game.

Also, did anyone clarify the stacking question with Chores? Surely double  would be useful...I think this boils down to a more fundamental question: can a flip (like the initiative flip) have the same suit more than once? If not, then no stacking. But there's a number of situations in which multiple suits are required (like summoning) so I'm not sure.

[lame0]

10 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

So two things I need to try: the crazy Ulix list with Aionus, and Mah with the new upgrades + Criers. I have a game today so I'll give it a go and post it here, probably. 

I tried the Ulix list in solo and it worked most of the time...it remains to be seen how useful it is in an actual game.

Also, did anyone clarify the stacking question with Chores? Surely double  would be useful...I think this boils down to a more fundamental question: can a flip (like the initiative flip) have the same suit more than once? If not, then no stacking. But there's a number of situations in which multiple suits are required (like summoning) so I'm not sure.

Yep aionus list works ~90% of the time. Usually the alpha does some decent damage :D. I like summoning 22 stones of models. One thing to note is that you don't need to move the scheme markers with midnight but it does make placement easier.

As for mahh stacking I think stacking does work. Interesting

[Ludvig]

10 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Also, did anyone clarify the stacking question with Chores? Surely double  would be useful...I think this boils down to a more fundamental question: can a flip (like the initiative flip) have the same suit more than once? If not, then no stacking. But there's a number of situations in which multiple suits are required (like summoning) so I'm not sure.

Rulebook p.53 "All other effects in the game which are not Conditions always stack unless they say otherwise."

Can a flip have the same suit multiple times? Yes of course. How would critical strike, infect or most summoning work if you couldn't have several rams or crows in your duel total?

Tomes or crows could be pretty nice to stack as well if you have some sacrifical gremlins.

[daniello_s]

Something escaped me...

How Mah can benefit from double-suit with Chores? 

[lame0]

16 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Something escaped me...

How Mah can benefit from double-suit with Chores? 

The emissary can let you have more than one suit. And her card says depending on the suit she gets an upgrade. If there are two rams then she gets two effects that are the same. The emissary's card even clarifies that you may get two benefits from chores.

[daniello_s]

Thanks. Forgot about Emissary.

[edopersichetti]

4 hours ago, daniello_s said:

Thanks. Forgot about Emissary.

Yes we're desperately looking for a reason to hire Emissary. At least I am. Just sad because it's a beautiful model but doesn't fit in with most of our crews (other Emissaries like Arcane or Mysterious, not to mention Carrion, are much more successful!)

7 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Rulebook p.53 "All other effects in the game which are not Conditions always stack unless they say otherwise."

Can a flip have the same suit multiple times? Yes of course. How would critical strike, infect or most summoning work if you couldn't have several rams or crows in your duel total?

Tomes or crows could be pretty nice to stack as well if you have some sacrifical gremlins.

Very good to know! Yes, I did think about critical strike and similar, but technically only one suit there comes from the flip, the other ones are either built in or added via a soulstone. But I trust you on this

Double Rams could be very very good!

[edopersichetti]

7 hours ago, lame0 said:

Yep aionus list works ~90% of the time. Usually the alpha does some decent damage :D. I like summoning 22 stones of models. One thing to note is that you don't need to move the scheme markers with midnight but it does make placement easier.

As for mahh stacking I think stacking does work. Interesting

In the end my friend had to cancel and postpone the game so I'll have to test this later.

I mean, yes, I tested it "solo" a few times and it did work most of the times - it highly depends on your hand. Let's say there's an ideal situation in which you manage to do all you want (summon 2 war pigs and 1 piglet, push the Warpigs etc.), which happened to me once (I had one of those crazy hands), but then if your initial hand is not good enough, you might have to use a SS for cards, or for a suit on the 0 for Aionus, or give up summoning the piglet, or give up the pushes from Old Major (this happened to me once, since I was 1 scheme marker short and had to use Major for it) etc. Worst case scenario, you only summon one War Pig, which is still ok I guess. So I wouldn't say it works "fully" 90% of the times, but it somehow works.

Now, the point is that yes, the alpha strike has a good damage potential BUT:

1. you need to have relevant models in range to hit. Opponent could be hiding in his deployment zone or behind a piece of terrain, or expose just cheap models
2. you will likely have a very poor hand, if a hand at all, at the end of all the summoning, healing, pushing etc. so the Warpigs could actually fail attacks big time
3. the rest of your crew is still stuck in deployment zone. This could be a crucial positioning disadvantage for the rest of the game (for running schemes and strategy).

So I'd say it sounds like a fun strategy but it's situational - that's why I wanted to test it in a real game, and see if it actually gets me VP

[Mr Janje]

3 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

In the end my friend had to cancel and postpone the game so I'll have to test this later.

I mean, yes, I tested it "solo" a few times and it did work most of the times - it highly depends on your hand. Let's say there's an ideal situation in which you manage to do all you want (summon 2 war pigs and 1 piglet, push the Warpigs etc.), which happened to me once (I had one of those crazy hands), but then if your initial hand is not good enough, you might have to use a SS for cards, or for a suit on the 0 for Aionus, or give up summoning the piglet, or give up the pushes from Old Major (this happened to me once, since I was 1 scheme marker short and had to use Major for it) etc. Worst case scenario, you only summon one War Pig, which is still ok I guess. So I wouldn't say it works "fully" 90% of the times, but it somehow works.

Now, the point is that yes, the alpha strike has a good damage potential BUT:

1. you need to have relevant models in range to hit. Opponent could be hiding in his deployment zone or behind a piece of terrain, or expose just cheap models
2. you will likely have a very poor hand, if a hand at all, at the end of all the summoning, healing, pushing etc. so the Warpigs could actually fail attacks big time
3. the rest of your crew is still stuck in deployment zone. This could be a crucial positioning disadvantage for the rest of the game (for running schemes and strategy).

So I'd say it sounds like a fun strategy but it's situational - that's why I wanted to test it in a real game, and see if it actually gets me VP

I might have missed it previously, or i might just be dumb, but could you go into detail of this "Crazy Aionus list"?

 

[lame0]

2 hours ago, Mr Janje said:

I might have missed it previously, or i might just be dumb, but could you go into detail of this "Crazy Aionus list"?

 

I'll put up the list / explaination tonight in it's own post

Actually it's not hard to get the hand and usually your hand is 3 cards by the end.

You go : 

Crier-> Meris -> aionus -> ulix -> slop -> (maybe piglet)-> slop -> old major -> piglet if it didn't go before -> war pig -> war pig. 

 

[edopersichetti]

2 hours ago, lame0 said:

I'll put up the list / explaination tonight in it's own post

Actually it's not hard to get the hand and usually your hand is 3 cards by the end.

You go : 

Crier-> Meris -> aionus -> ulix -> slop -> (maybe piglet)-> slop -> old major -> piglet if it didn't go before -> war pig -> war pig. 

 

The problem if you have a really bad hand at the beginning is that when you get to Ulix you need to have two 12s and a 9, and that is not guaranteed at all. I've drawn hands where my highest card was an 11. Even if you cycle all of them with the crier, and then some more with Merris, you'd be lucky to get two 12+ for the warpigs...and if you do, the rest of your hand is probably very bad. Sometimes I pulled it off, but didn't have the 9 for the piglet. And then again, if you use all those good cards, then at the end of the round you have 3 very bad cards.

So yea, from the simulations I made (drawing actual cards from a deck and activating models etc.) the list worked but even in the best hypothesis I had very few cards left in hand at end of turn, and most of them bad. Cycling cards is a double-edged sword...many times you cycle a 7 or 8 and draw a 1 or 2...

p.s. one time I drew a Red Joker. At the point, I was not so sure anymore I wanted to use it to summon a Warpig