How to properly use these models?

[whodares]

Trying my hand again with Asami and these models are bound to come up. I've been having some difficulty with using them to their fullest, which is why I've come to you guys asking for information.

 

First off is the Yokai.

I've been using this guy almost exclusively as either a torpedo, a body blocker, a Bettari movement summon or a scheme marker for when he flickers out. The thing that bothers me though is that I can't seem to get any value out of his 0 action. In theory it sounds pretty great, drop a Flicker for a free interact action and a 3" place. The thing that bothers me is that they never lasted long enough to even be used for the 0 as you need 3 summoned Flicker to be even able to use it. 1 For the end of the summon turn, 1 to lower with the 0 action and 1 to actually survive so you can do the interact action.

I've been thinking about using it as setup for Dig Their Graves together with Asami's A Heavenly Design, but that's about where it ends for me. My main problem with using it always remains to be that it gets summoned in with 2 Flicker, which renders it impossible to be used

So my question is: how are you guys able to put his 0 to good use?

 

Second model is the Kamaitachi.

His 6" aura's are amazing, especially when paired together with the Terracotta Warrior. Getting a free card draw every single turn is great for every crew. The problem is that I don't really know what to do after that. His 0 can work as extra setup for scheme marker drops from the Yokai, but my Asami lists tend to be rather low on actual minions. Dropping a card for burning can work, but I need the cards too much to really be able to afford to drop them for "just" a burning. I understand it combo's well with the Obsidian Oni, but that's the next model I have questions about.

So really, what do you do with the Kamaitachi besides positioning it for maximum aura potency?

 

Third and last model is the Obsidian Oni.

I've never even summoned this guy as Flicker remains to be hard to find and the Yokai are good enough that I never felt I could use him. To really be able to use him, the enemy needs to have burning on it. That's usually only in the second turn he's been summoned, so you can give them a club to the face, trigger the burning and go for a neutral flip on his other attack. Being able to cheat in 5 damage can be great, but it's also rather resource intensive. You first have to hit the opponent with the club with the correct trigger (gonna have to cheat that probably), then win the second duel as well to only then be able to use a high card to cheat the damage if you get some bad luck and not get at least moderate on a neutral flip. You can drop a low card with the Kamaitachi, but then you expose a rather squishy model which can get some priority from your opponent.

How are you using the Obsidian Oni? Is it pretty much the combo I described above, is it a bit like scheme marker dropper like Yokai or is it something else?

 

Hopefully you guys can show me the light on what I'm missing with these models and elevate my gameplay to the next level!

[santaclaws01]

Yokai: use them pretty much as you said. Torpedoes that you summon and shoot them off, or run them somewhere that you want a scheme marker the next turn that's outside of Asami's aura and you don't/can't move her to get them in it. If you just want to summon a scheme marker somewhere Tengu are the better option .

Kamitachi is just a card and heal bot for me, if I even take it. Asami doesn't really need a totem.

Obsidian Oni. You use then to drop scrap markers off of enemies. That's pretty much their main use for Asami. Everything else is just extra, and you shouldn't really be summoning them.

[whodares]

11 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Yokai: use them pretty much as you said. Torpedoes that you summon and shoot them off, or run them somewhere that you want a scheme marker the next turn that's outside of Asami's aura and you don't/can't move her to get them in it. If you just want to summon a scheme marker somewhere Tengu are the better option .

Kamitachi is just a card and heal bot for me, if I even take it. Asami doesn't really need a totem.

Obsidian Oni. You use then to drop scrap markers off of enemies. That's pretty much their main use for Asami. Everything else is just extra, and you shouldn't really be summoning them.

So basicly I've not been wrong in how I'm using them. They just have very little use outside of the little niche they are trying to fill?

I'm curious as to why Tengu are the better option. They start with only 1 Flicker, but Yokai have far superior mobility if there's not a scheme marker in place for the Tengu to teleport to. I know Tengu needs an 8 instead of a 9, but many games I don't have an 8 in hand anyway. At least the Yokai can still threaten with offence which a Tengu can't really do.

[ArcticPangolin]

Yokai mostly get use out of their (0) when they are hired instead of summoned.

I'm not sure I'd bother with any Totem other than Amanjaku for Asami.

 

[santaclaws01]

6 hours ago, whodares said:

So basicly I've not been wrong in how I'm using them. They just have very little use outside of the little niche they are trying to fill?

I'm curious as to why Tengu are the better option. They start with only 1 Flicker, but Yokai have far superior mobility if there's not a scheme marker in place for the Tengu to teleport to. I know Tengu needs an 8 instead of a 9, but many games I don't have an 8 in hand anyway. At least the Yokai can still threaten with offence which a Tengu can't really do.

I mean if you're just trying to summon a model to drop a scheme marker at the end of the turn somewhere within 10 of Asami. Otherwise, yeah, summon Yokai if you can. Also I wouldn't really call Yokai niche units. They can do different things depending on what you need them to do, they're just not the best option for summoning if you want to drop a scheme marker at the end of the turn.

[MrDeathTrout]

 

Yokai: Their (0) is pretty useless most of the time when they are summoned.  I have found one use for it, though.  In one game I summoned two Yokai in Asami's charge bubble.  My opponent moved Nekima so she engaged both of them and stayed outside their 1" range.  Since they only had 1 AP and could not charge while engaged they were pretty useless.  I used their (0) to remove 1 flicker which let them place within 3", they could not interact so that bit was wasted, but they were now outsize Nekima's engagment range and still in Asami's charge aura so, they were able to charge Nekima.

Kamatachi: Only used him in one game, but I have the same feelings as you.  Maybe use the burning once in a while to help Obsidian Oni, who I almost never use.  I do like the idea of giving burning 1 to hard to kill targets to finish them off.  Haven't put that that to practice yet though.

Obsidian Oni: Almost never use them.  Very rarely to I need them to do something they Yokai don't do just as well or better.  I've used them a couple of times as blockers.  My opponent was moving most of his crew through a narrow gap between impassible terrain and sever terrain.  I dropped two Obsidian Oni choking up the passage.  He had to either take the long way around through the sever terrain, or kill them and take damage when they exploded.  Either way his charge lane was blocked and he would waste a lot of AP.

 

[whodares]

24 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

I mean if you're just trying to summon a model to drop a scheme marker at the end of the turn somewhere within 10 of Asami. Otherwise, yeah, summon Yokai if you can. Also I wouldn't really call Yokai niche units. They can do different things depending on what you need them to do, they're just not the best option for summoning if you want to drop a scheme marker at the end of the turn.

My apologies, I misworded a bit. The "niche" was for the Kamaitachi and Obsidian Oni, not for the Yokai.

I'm still not sure why the Tengu would be better for scheme marker dropping than the Yokai. They cost an 8 instead of a 9, which is the only benefit they have. Tengu are squishier and have no place effect UNLESS there already is a marker in the area. The Yokai can use his 0 to get out of combat if he is summoned in it or engaged by your opponent and be 100% certain to place enough distance between himself and an opposing model for the scheme marker to be valid.

Maybe I'm missing something of value with the Tengu? I used to run a Tengu with Yan Lo, which I used to hop away all the time with Shooting Star. Besides that he's just inferior in every single way imo.

[santaclaws01]

8 minutes ago, whodares said:

My apologies, I misworded a bit. The "niche" was for the Kamaitachi and Obsidian Oni, not for the Yokai.

I'm still not sure why the Tengu would be better for scheme marker dropping than the Yokai. They cost an 8 instead of a 9, which is the only benefit they have. Tengu are squishier and have no place effect UNLESS there already is a marker in the area. The Yokai can use his 0 to get out of combat if he is summoned in it or engaged by your opponent and be 100% certain to place enough distance between himself and an opposing model for the scheme marker to be valid.

Maybe I'm missing something of value with the Tengu? I used to run a Tengu with Yan Lo, which I used to hop away all the time with Shooting Star. Besides that he's just inferior in every single way imo.

Because the Yokai isn't going to dissapear at the end of the turn unless you use up their flicker. Also Heavenly Design is only 10", and considering you can summon models 6" away, the movement needed to get at the edge of Heavenly Design's aura isn't all that big. If you want to summon an actual scheme runner for future turns then yeah the Yokai would be better because they're going to be more mobile with the 3" place at the end of the turn.

As for the Kamaitachi, it's a totem, they're generally only going to fill a niche. Obsidian Oni can still do other things, and if you have 2 of them then 1 can set up burning for the other, it's just their main use in an Asami crew is dropping scrap markers so that if you summon a Jorogumo or Yokai they're going to stick around longer or get more use out of it's triggers as far as the Yokai is concerned.

[whodares]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

Because the Yokai isn't going to dissapear at the end of the turn unless you use up their flicker. Also Heavenly Design is only 10", and considering you can summon models 6" away, the movement needed to get at the edge of Heavenly Design's aura isn't all that big. If you want to summon an actual scheme runner for future turns then yeah the Yokai would be better because they're going to be more mobile with the 3" place at the end of the turn.

As for the Kamaitachi, it's a totem, they're generally only going to fill a niche. Obsidian Oni can still do other things, and if you have 2 of them then 1 can set up burning for the other, it's just their main use in an Asami crew is dropping scrap markers so that if you summon a Jorogumo or Yokai they're going to stick around longer or get more use out of it's triggers as far as the Yokai is concerned.

Don't forget a Yokai can come in on 1 Flicker when summoned. The wording on the card is "may choose to gain Flicker + 1" which means you are not forced to take it. Then again, his 0 can drop his Flicker down by 1 without any problems as again the wording on the card is "may take a (1) Interact Action" so you can use this even on the turn you summon it.

Yes, Heavenly Design is 10" and a summoned Yokai can potentially move 10" away from her (charge + 0 action) and be out of range, but you're not doing that. The 0 let's you place the Yokai out of combat, which is a luxury the Tengu doesn't have. Sometimes you can't summon the model where you want it to be and having that 3" extra place can make a world of difference, especially since summoned models come in with Slow.

 

Perhaps it is best to agree to disagree as I see no benefit to actually summoning the Tengu compared to the Yokai, except for the lower card requirement and the Tengu (0) action for some last-minute scheme denying.

[MrDeathTrout]

I usually don't summon Tengu to place scheme markers, but to use their (0) to remove them.  Summon within 6", possibly place 5" to another scheme marker, fly 5", then remove up to two markers within 3".  Pure gold.