M2E Von Schill

[Zebo]

I've had ups and downs using Hannah. Since being the star of the match to being absolutely irrelevant. 

 

I feel difficult to use her since she's 10ss, and Strongarm cost the same 10ss and has never ever failed to me. 

[Thottbot]

2 minutes ago, Zebo said:

I've had ups and downs using Hannah. Since being the star of the match to being absolutely irrelevant. 

 

I feel difficult to use her since she's 10ss, and Strongarm cost the same 10ss and has never ever failed to me. 

what is her strengths and weaknesses would you say? 

[Zebo]

Hannah is simply good in many things, but her real strengths are the Arcane Reservoir and the possibility of bury people with her 2ss upgrade (making her quite expensive). 

 

I've tried her sometimes without her upgrade, and she's too squishy to being a beater. Her damage output is not as good to risk a 10ss model as killable as her. When I kept her at distance and used her (0) and the 2ss upgrade, she made a good job. When I tried to charge something and use her only (1) action, she dealt a little bit of damage and then died easily. 

[apes-ma]

12 hours ago, Zebo said:

Hannah is simply good in many things, but her real strengths are the Arcane Reservoir and the possibility of bury people with her 2ss upgrade (making her quite expensive). 

 

I've tried her sometimes without her upgrade, and she's too squishy to being a beater. Her damage output is not as good to risk a 10ss model as killable as her. When I kept her at distance and used her (0) and the 2ss upgrade, she made a good job. When I tried to charge something and use her only (1) action, she dealt a little bit of damage and then died easily. 

With Von Schill I'll always have another 10SS model, such as Strongarm or Lazarus as well as Hannah. Also I don't really think Hannah is a charging piece. She can definitely go down if you don't look after her! She has a big base, and a big melee range, and carries I Pay Better, which means she's normally taking a focussed attack against what she's engaged with (which means you can hit the 6, get blasts, maybe trigger horror duels), and then using her zero for support. Generally she'll want to do this from a centre midfield position thataximises the I Pay Better aura and maintains her line of sight and range to good Care abilities. Your opponent will want to get rid of her, and then she can just focus punch whatever they feed her... Handily Strongarm and Lazarus increase Hannah's damage output or resilience, respectively.

[Zebo]

I usually run 2 Trapper and one Librarian. Using 2 10ss models would force me to play with 7 models when I try to put at least 8.

[apes-ma]

22 hours ago, Zebo said:

I usually run 2 Trapper and one Librarian. Using 2 10ss models would force me to play with 7 models when I try to put at least 8.

Yeah, in that case Hannah is definitely not the go-to 10SS model! You can definitely squeeze 8 activations into a list with a friekorps core though - e.g. something along these lines. Could swap a wretch for a Freikorps m and go down a stone, or out in the effigy etc. etc.

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Von Schill + 3 Pool
 - Engage at Will (1)
 - Nythera Aftermath (1)
 - Survivalist (1)
Steam Trunk (3)
Hannah (10)
 - I Pay Better (1)
Strongarm Suit (10)
Freikorps Librarian (7)
Freikorps Trapper (6)
Void Wretch (4)
Void Wretch (4)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

[Davos]

I've starting trying Anna Lovelace, Hannah black sheep sister and finding her an acceptable replacement for Hannah. Anna is more more ranged (CA 6, no randomizing) and completely shuts down pushes/places if the enemy. More over, so is DF6 which makes her a little more survivable. I find Hannah dies just sooo fast unless you have a bunch of stones to defend her. Now, that changes somewhat with the engineer giving her armor, but you'd rather he give armor to somewith with crit strike. Hannah as a beater model is ok, the blasts and terror duels are nice, but she's slow, with a rather unimpressive charge. And if she charges, she's engaged and gonna get wrecked. I'd much rather swap her for Sue + Return Fire and give Suit either oathkeeper or Bigger They Are (brining Suit to min 4 against some targets)

[apes-ma]

18 hours ago, Davos said:

I've starting trying Anna Lovelace, Hannah black sheep sister and finding her an acceptable replacement for Hannah. Anna is more more ranged (CA 6, no randomizing) and completely shuts down pushes/places if the enemy. More over, so is DF6 which makes her a little more survivable. I find Hannah dies just sooo fast unless you have a bunch of stones to defend her. Now, that changes somewhat with the engineer giving her armor, but you'd rather he give armor to somewith with crit strike. Hannah as a beater model is ok, the blasts and terror duels are nice, but she's slow, with a rather unimpressive charge. And if she charges, she's engaged and gonna get wrecked. I'd much rather swap her for Sue + Return Fire and give Suit either oathkeeper or Bigger They Are (brining Suit to min 4 against some targets)

Yeah, Anna is really really good too. I often take her with Hannah or instead of Hannah to take I Pay Better (especially when I don't think I'll need the extra heal). The fact she doesn't randomise is SO good. The possibility to randomly drain cards from your opponents hand (or paralyse come models!) from the trigger is pretty nice as well.

[Thottbot]

if i then get Anna, which models should i go for with her summon? (just incase i do get the summon trigger) should i be the mindless zombies or the Seishin ghosts? 

[Nukemouse]

If you have anything that makes use of corpse markers take the zombie, otherwise the seishin can sacrifice itself to heal so that is the more useful one in my opinion.

[apes-ma]

3 hours ago, Thottbot said:

if i then get Anna, which models should i go for with her summon? (just incase i do get the summon trigger) should i be the mindless zombies or the Seishin ghosts? 

Seishin are almost always better than the mindless zombies in outcasts. That said, I've played a lot of games with Anna and summoned maybe twice. Unless you can get seishin individually I'd just proxy one (unless you think you'll play readers and might want Datsue Ba/Kirai). It's not too likely a Seishin you summon will stick around for long anyway...

[Thottbot]

On 14/09/2017 at 10:55 PM, apes-ma said:

Seishin are almost always better than the mindless zombies in outcasts. That said, I've played a lot of games with Anna and summoned maybe twice. Unless you can get seishin individually I'd just proxy one (unless you think you'll play readers and might want Datsue Ba/Kirai). It's not too likely a Seishin you summon will stick around for long anyway...

so theeye like a summonable health potion / engagement lockup? seems pretty neat

 

[Zebo]

I've been thinking about new upgrades, and what I like the most is that now we can think about combos with VS (¡!) 

 

I want to try 2 options, in one VS has Oath of the Freikorps, Nythera's Aftermath and I Pay Better (full support) and the Specialist wears Scout The Field. With the StF movement the Specialist moves up to 2" in front of VS. As long as possible, the Engineer (probably will become a must in my lists) gives the Specialist the +1 armor and the +. Then, when you want, with 2 ap VS gives the Specialist Oathkeeper and places him up to 6" of its current location, keeping 1 ap for him to walk, give Oathkeeper to another ally or himsel or wathever you want. 

At this point, you have the Specialist placed up to 8" + 6cm from your deployment zone, ideally on top of some elevated terrain that grants him cover and provides with good LoS. Then you can activate him, discard a card to gain focus, burn oathkeeper for a third ap and make two focused shots that put on his targets burning +2 each. It could be 6 dmg + burning 4 to the affected for the blasts.  

 

The other option is to include Hannah with I Pay Better and give VS Scout the Field (I really LOVE this upgrade on VS and SA). That would mean a couple of inches with the same actions, or maybe, using the three actions of VS, you could place the Specialist up to 13" + 6cm.

 

I feel that 2 focused shots from the Specialist are better than 2 from Lazarus, but the same tactic could be used with the construct. 

[FunWithKnives]

VS (aftermath, shirt, TBTA)

Hannah (I pay better)

Lazarus

Librarian 

Sue

Johan

F-Man 

That list currently goes best imo.

Probably good 5ed ideas: engi+strongarm, hannah+marlena, gunline with oathkeepers

[apes-ma]

36 minutes ago, Zebo said:

At this point, you have the Specialist placed up to 8" + 6cm from your deployment zone, ideally on top of some elevated terrain that grants him cover and provides with good LoS.

The place from Clockwork Arm doesn't let you place the target in terrain, unfortunately...

[Davos]

4 minutes ago, FunWithKnives said:

VS (aftermath, shirt, TBTA)

 

I'm probably missing something very clear here, but what does does "TBTA" stand for?  

[apes-ma]

Just now, Davos said:

I'm probably missing something very clear here, but what does does "TBTA" stand for?  

The Bigger They Are!

And @FunWithKnives - this could all change of course with the new Gaining Grounds, but what worries me about that list (as sweet as it looks) is the fact that it's only 7 models, and in the current GG that makes it pretty hard to score most schemes.

[Davos]

Ohhhhh wow.  I'm dumb.  I never put it on him.  Like it more on Suit cause then he's Min4. 

Yea, 7  models is rough right now.  I play like that and it gets difficult, especially against summoners.

[FunWithKnives]

Just now, apes-ma said:

The Bigger They Are!

And @FunWithKnives - this could all change of course with the new Gaining Grounds, but what worries me about that list (as sweet as it looks) is the fact that it's only 7 models, and in the current GG that makes it pretty hard to score most schemes.

GG18 beta schemes looks pretty killy, so thats another little boost for our fiece moustache guy

[apes-ma]

Just now, FunWithKnives said:

GG18 beta schemes looks pretty killy, so thats another little boost for our fiece moustache guy

Here's hoping! His biggest weakness recently has undeniably been the scheme pool...

[Davos]

41 minutes ago, Zebo said:

I've been thinking about new upgrades, and what I like the most is that now we can think about combos with VS (¡!) 

 

I want to try 2 options, in one VS has Oath of the Freikorps, Nythera's Aftermath and I Pay Better (full support) and the Specialist wears Scout The Field. With the StF movement the Specialist moves up to 2" in front of VS. As long as possible, the Engineer (probably will become a must in my lists) gives the Specialist the +1 armor and the +. Then, when you want, with 2 ap VS gives the Specialist Oathkeeper and places him up to 6" of its current location, keeping 1 ap for him to walk, give Oathkeeper to another ally or himsel or wathever you want. 

At this point, you have the Specialist placed up to 8" + 6cm from your deployment zone, ideally on top of some elevated terrain that grants him cover and provides with good LoS. Then you can activate him, discard a card to gain focus, burn oathkeeper for a third ap and make two focused shots that put on his targets burning +2 each. It could be 6 dmg + burning 4 to the affected for the blasts.  

I feel that 2 focused shots from the Specialist are better than 2 from Lazarus, but the same tactic could be used with the construct. 

I've tried something similar to this, and while it "works" it is SOOO card and AP intensive, its hard to truly pull off and get the value/worth from it. You need so much to go right for you from the getgo.  You need to 5Rams for the armor +ram, you need a good number of high cards to make the damage actually worth it.  Moreover, this is assuming your opponent isn't doing anything  agressive.  And since you're most likely being out-activated (cause its VS, of course you are) they can easily see what you're doing and avoid it or do otherthings until you're done and then just murder Specialist.

 

Its a really cool and powerful idea in concept, its just that with our current models and state of meta/game, its very very high effort for minimal rewards

[Nukemouse]

I pretty much run 2 Freikorpsmen in every list. They just kind of mosey towards von schill and benefit from armor, high wp and htk in his aura so they end up doing more than their cost suggests. I am thinking of maybe using rat catchers and winged plague to run my schemes, whilst using two trappers each with oathkeeper from VS to shoot at whatever VS gets into a fight with. He doesn't even need to worry about engagements since the emissary can sit near the trappers to help them just shoot whatever he has damaged ignoring randomization. Hopefully the trappers can continually reposition a bit forwards so the hodgepodge can move into useful places to make use of its own attacks and abilities.

[FunWithKnives]

1 hour ago, Nukemouse said:

I pretty much run 2 Freikorpsmen in every list. They just kind of mosey towards von schill and benefit from armor, high wp and htk in his aura so they end up doing more than their cost suggests. I am thinking of maybe using rat catchers and winged plague to run my schemes, whilst using two trappers each with oathkeeper from VS to shoot at whatever VS gets into a fight with. He doesn't even need to worry about engagements since the emissary can sit near the trappers to help them just shoot whatever he has damaged ignoring randomization. Hopefully the trappers can continually reposition a bit forwards so the hodgepodge can move into useful places to make use of its own attacks and abilities.

Take 1 strongarm instead of 2 f-men, or man + big jake. Or johan + effigy. 

1 good use of freikorpsmen is suicide rush to lock important enemy models in melee. 

 

[Nukemouse]

I've owned the strongarm for a while but haven't had much chance to try it. With Oath of the Freikorps though i think ill be using it a lot more, since that would let VS really buff strongarm up into a quite scary beater. Give him the bigger they are and have him activate his +1 damage ability and he hits at min 5 on upgraded targets! At + flip if VS hit them, even better if he cracked them first.

[DXXXVIII]

Best way to expand from the Von schill crew? Keep the freikorps-crew but replace Von Schill himself by your newly acquired Tara.