M2E Von Schill

[Thottbot]

I noticed in the arcanist section there were threads for the masters,

but none here, so I guess I will open up a one for Von Schilly here.

 

I recently acquired a von Schill crew box and was wondering,

what do you branch out to in Schill box? and what are some good tricks or combos with him?

 

(if a mod finds this they could totally sticky this for other new outcast players)

[Fenriel]

Any of the Freikorps models work well. Hannah & Lazarus in particular. Anna if you look outside outcasts. Johan and Sue are two other models that see alot of table time in any of my crews. StrongArm suit is a mini-vs and very solid as well. 

Unusual Synergies -

Rusty Alyce - Engage at will let's her both drop a scrap marker and summon an abom every turn. But it's card intensive.

Hannah - Copy his Finish the Cur Action.

Emissary - Put your shirt back on..over and over again.

New upgrades are looking fun (throw somebody with the arm, free shot etc) but I haven't had much game time with them yet. 

 

[Davos]

Sue and Strongarm Suit are musts.  Sue is, in my opinion, one of the all around best utility models in the game.  Paired with Return Fire and supported with a librarian (which you'll be  brining all the time) he's a god at killing.  Strongarm is a heavy beater who won't die, who has a strong Sh against WP, which throws people off, along with VS's augmented jump lets him bounce around and murder (especially when you add in Bigger They Are +1 dmg against models with upgrades).  I think Midnigt Stalker (new Wave 5) could be viable, though i haven't play him yet.

 

The new upgrades are super fun, and seem highly useful. 

[Thottbot]

i'm very interested to try him out, i thought of purchasing to be a good "demo" for people to try out malifaux on, since he's so easy to understand and play. 

he doesnt have wall or texts like some summoners and not complicated like Ironsides  

probably will be expanding to Hannah and maybe Anna  

[Thottbot]

what would you say is the easier model to understand (from a newbies perspective) Anna or Killjoy?

[Nikodemus]

Anna has a block of text on her card that required immediate FAQ on her release.

Killjoy charges things dead.

[Thottbot]

9 minutes ago, Nikodemus said:

Anna has a block of text on her card that required immediate FAQ on her release.

Killjoy charges things dead.

i see, killjoy it is then 

Trying to make a Von Schill crew slightly because im curious about him, but mainly to have demo with, since he's very straight forward with little wall of text 

 

[Nukemouse]

Hodgepodge Emissary is amazing with him, letting his crew ignore randomization and letting him wear a million shirts.

[apes-ma]

My preference is to play to Von Schill's strengths, which are not dying easily, and helping his crew to also not die easily, and part of that is taking advantage of his Legend To Live Up To aura. That means I also normally only have space for one non-Freikorps model, if that. I always play the Steam Trunk and Hannah, and more often than not will also take the Librarian. That core gives a lot of healing that works very well with the hard to kill aura that VS puts out. Then I will always take another 10SS model - either Anna, Strongarm or Lazarus, depending on what I think will fit with the board, strats and schemes etc. I will occasionally take the Emissary, but it doesn't benefit from VS's aura, and needs to be fairly close to VS to dish out shirts, which then leaves it quite vulnerable. I'll normally only take him into a scheme pool that needs a lot of schemeing and lean on him, a freikorpsmann or two and perhaps a trapper for schemes. After the 10SS model I round the list out with other freikorps models (freikorpsmenn, trappers), or squeeze in Big Jake or Johan if the scenario feels right. I don't like to have too many non-freikorps models, but johan is hard to kill and jake is so valuable in some strats, and comes back later on anyway which can be nice. Von Schill will sometimes charge off to try and get Can Opener on a key model, or to kill a scheme runner or something, but I also try to make sure that he isn't away from the crew for too long. I try to just bubble up, dig in, and just get in the way of the enemy with my hard to kill constantly healing models. GG17 has NOT been good for Von Schill though, unfortunately.

I have tried to play Von Schill with less freikorps, but then I feel like I am just playing Outcasts "good stuff" and Von Schill just feels like a Henchman with swift, and could be just about any other master (Viks, Tara).

This is all subject to change with the release of the new upgrades and models though. I think the Engineer will be great for VS. It was fun in beta at least... it draws cards very easily, helps with general survivability through armour and it's mask trigger, is another source of can opener (although I don't think it wants to get up front), and hannah can copy it's armour-giving. I also think that it supports the lowly freikorpsmann quite well - making it armour +2 and giving it a built in ram is actually pretty cool. Plus it does the same for VS... I am most keen to try VS upgrades though - Nythera Aftermath will help to add a lot of mobility to the crew (punching Lazarus up the field seems like a good start to the game...) and also will make him very annoying when the enemy needs to stay in position. It also gives him some incidental summoner hate. Oath of the Freikorps I am less sure about, but I like that there is now a more puncy VS and a more supporty VS. These new things, combined with a new scheme pool, have me very excited to play a LOT more Von Schill. Since GG2017 came along I have been disappointed how unplayable he is/was!

[Nukemouse]

If you are fortunate enough to get both a low ram and a ram good enough for the armor boost the engineer can give armor to a freikorpsmann and + to its duels, then it discards to get + to its duels and suddenly you have like a base six min 4 dude running around being all spooky. If it has oathkeeper from VS then it can charge anything he has shot and destroy it utterly!

[apes-ma]

30 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

If you are fortunate enough to get both a low ram and a ram good enough for the armor boost the engineer can give armor to a freikorpsmann and + to its duels, then it discards to get + to its duels and suddenly you have like a base six min 4 dude running around being all spooky. If it has oathkeeper from VS then it can charge anything he has shot and destroy it utterly!

Yeah - it seems good doesn't it! That's really the dream scenario, but even with just one of those rams you've got an armour +2 Ml6 min damage 2 dude that spikes at 5 damage. Then you flip cards and it might end up with defence 7, or it might do extra damage - seems cool! It might even be hard to kill and have willpower 7 depending on placement. Depending on the situation it might even be worth discarding a moderate ram to reference the field guide - if making it min 3 with the chance for 4 is particularly important.

I am also thinking of reconsidering the Specialist with the advent of the engineer and Nythera Afterath. Von Schill can punch it up the board, and engineer makes it armour 2 and gives it an extra ram so now everything it damages is getting burning 2 at least. Although the Specialist has low defence I feel like his real problem is it's speed, and Clockwork Arm fixes that more or less - it at least gives it an extra 6" out of deployment which should be enough to let him start shooting turn 2, and the armour and rams from an engineer helps to somewhat negate the low defense, and makes it hit harder.

Hannah can copy the engineer's zero action as well which, although a bit card hungry if going for rams, means that you can give extra armour to two models a turn - this just further cements Hannah as a staple in a VS crew for me! A quick note on Hannah that I forgot to mention before - I feel like I Pay Better is integral to Von Schill and the freikorps. The crew is generally out activated, and so being able to make use of low cards in hand (either as heals through the steam trunk or focuses through I Pay Better) helps to improve AP quality to make up for the lack of AP quantity. Hopefully GG18 addresses the balance between AP quantity and quality (GG17 is highly skewed towards quantity) - if so then Von Schill will benefit.

[Nukemouse]

I have found the specialist is more of a friend to jack daw with his ability to purge slow from sloth and paralyze from nurse for much healing. Still i guess if you give him that ram he's base 6 ignores cover 2+2-3 min damage, with the risk of blasts amplifying that. Its a shame burning doesn't have much support outside of arcanists, poison seems to have gotten more love from wyrd as of late.

How do you feel about Marlena? Other than the engineer she seems second best for VS out of the lot (maybe there's some prospector trick with throwing people onto scheme markers to damage them?) and would basically make him immortal. Though to be honest with the emissary reattaching the shirt i never had much trouble keeping VS alive.

[apes-ma]

12 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

I have found the specialist is more of a friend to jack daw with his ability to purge slow from sloth and paralyze from nurse for much healing. Still i guess if you give him that ram he's base 6 ignores cover 2+2-3 min damage, with the risk of blasts amplifying that. Its a shame burning doesn't have much support outside of arcanists, poison seems to have gotten more love from wyrd as of late.

How do you feel about Marlena? Other than the engineer she seems second best for VS out of the lot (maybe there's some prospector trick with throwing people onto scheme markers to damage them?) and would basically make him immortal. Though to be honest with the emissary reattaching the shirt i never had much trouble keeping VS alive.

I have been thinking a bit about Marlena and I'm not too sure... On one hand the Soul Tether ability is pretty spicy, and it will definitely keep Von Schill alive when he jet packs off on a mission until he comes back to the bubble again. I often take Survivalist on Von Schill, and those two in combination mean that an opponent has to hit him a LOT before he goes down - ideally by then he's got back into range of the steam trunk, or then hannah + librarian zone where Marlena can apply the buff again in preparation for another charge (having been healed, hopefully, by some other component of the crew). On the other hand, Marlena isn't Freikorps, and I am not sure yet how easily she will go down, especially after taking damage on behalf on Von Schill. She also brings another casting attack that Hannah can copy, and I think, perhaps most importantly, she offers a bit of back field protection. One of the things that I find hard to deal with when I play Von Schill (other than the fact that I am playing Von Schill!) is that if an opponent gets a scheme runner in my backline it's very hard to deal with at the same time as maintaining pressure where my crew is, due to the low model count. Marlena, if positioned right, offers a the potential to protect that back field with her Steadfast Protector ability. I don't know how good that is though... Also of note is that Hannah can copy her summon ability and stone for the mask, but I am not sure how useful that actually is...

As for Prospectors I am just not sure that they will be any good... they don't seem to do a lot, have high TNs for realtively poor or situational effects, and the Appraise action just doesn't seem good. If Collect Evidence and Recharge Soulstone persist into GG18 then I could perhaps see them being useful for that, otherwise I am not so sure... 

[Zebo]

I need the final rules of both the new upgrades and the Engineer. 

 

The idea of placing the Specialist up to 11" out of your deployment even in elevated terrain,  with Armor +2 and  to all duels sound so cool that I need to try it. If you want to, it could be even placed up to 16" (I've always loved Scout the field on VS). 

 

Yes, the same trick could be used with Lazarus... but Lazarus isn't wearing a Flamethrower. 

[Davos]

4 hours ago, Zebo said:

The idea of placing the Specialist up to 11" out of your deployment even in elevated terrain,  with Armor +2 and  to all duels sound so cool that I need to try it. If you want to, it could be even placed up to 16" (I've always loved Scout the field on VS). 

I've done the double built rams thing for Specialist.  Its a nice, cute little move, but only really works if you've ALSO comboed it with Priority Target. Ie. you need to have oathkeepr and have hit the target with von schiil to grant Priority Target.  It works, but takes a ton of effect to engineer.  It's cute, but i don't think its competitive.  Yet.  Needs some more refinement but has potential

[Thottbot]

On 9/6/2017 at 3:35 PM, apes-ma said:

 

On 9/6/2017 at 3:11 PM, Nukemouse said:

I have found the specialist is more of a friend to jack daw with his ability to purge slow from sloth and paralyze from nurse for much healing. Still i guess if you give him that ram he's base 6 ignores cover 2+2-3 min damage, with the risk of blasts amplifying that. Its a shame burning doesn't have much support outside of arcanists, poison seems to have gotten more love from wyrd as of late.

How do you feel about Marlena? Other than the engineer she seems second best for VS out of the lot (maybe there's some prospector trick with throwing people onto scheme markers to damage them?) and would basically make him immortal. Though to be honest with the emissary reattaching the shirt i never had much trouble keeping VS alive.

I have been thinking a bit about Marlena

 

who is marlena? i've been looking through the books and i can't find her 

[Nukemouse]

Marlena Webster is in Broken Promises, she is a petulant youthful girl who is sort of an apprentice of levi. Levi views it as protecting her because her life is super messed up but she sees him as one of the messed up things. Gameplay wise she has a much weaker version of levi's ranged attack, can charge enemies that place scheme markers and has a melee attack designed to push her away from the target after damaging. She can summon wicked dolls off scrap markers and also can place a condition on masters that means when they die they heal the value of the condition instead of dying, but she loses that many wounds.

[Adran]

She was one of the models that had her story created during divergent paths event last year. (Inquisitive child).

[Thottbot]

On 9/6/2017 at 2:58 PM, apes-ma said:

Hannah can copy the engineer's zero action as well which, although a bit card hungry if going for rams, means that you can give extra armour to two models a turn

Hannah cannot take (0) actions, remember that you already used a (0) action when borrowing a ability/action, but it also needs to a (1) cost

[apes-ma]

13 minutes ago, Thottbot said:

Hannah cannot take (0) actions, remember that you already used a (0) action when borrowing a ability/action, but it also needs to a (1) cost

She can if the target is Freikorps - her "Make a New Entry" has a trigger on a tome (built in) called "Willing Subject", which says "After succeeding, if the target has the Freikorps characteristic, any (0) action may be selected instead, regardless of whether it is a Ca action". Which is pretty cool! She can't declare triggers, though, so although she can give out armour, she can't give out the extra rams. That trigger also, notably, means she can copy Self-Repair from Lazarus, Charge Up, from Strongarm Suit, Finish the Cur from Von Schill and even Reference the Field Guide from a Freikorpsmann if you're out of stones and really want to get her horror duels to fire (or get the mask if you're using Ancient Tomes).

[Thottbot]

1 minute ago, apes-ma said:

She can if the target is Freikorps - her "Make a New Entry" has a trigger on a tome (built in) called "Willing Subject", which says "After succeeding, if the target has the Freikorps characteristic, any (0) action may be selected instead, regardless of whether it is a Ca action". Which is pretty cool! It also, notably, means she can copy Self-Repair from Lazarus, Charge Up, from Strongarm Suit, Finish the Cur from Von Schill and even Reference the Field Guide from a Freikorpsmann if you're out of stones and really want to get her horror duels to fire (or get the mask if you're using Ancient Tomes).

oh my bad, i didnt look at the trigger, i also thought she borrowed a action and still had to use an AP for the action, just re-read it and realized you only use the (0) AP ability even if you target a (1) AP ability

[apes-ma]

4 minutes ago, Thottbot said:

oh my bad, i didnt look at the trigger, i also thought she borrowed a action and still had to use an AP for the action, just re-read it and realized you only use the (0) AP ability even if you target a (1) AP ability

Yup! It's a conditional free AP, which is super super good - especially in a Von Schill crew! I find that as long as there are a couple of options for Ca actions that don't rely on triggers she is a really flexible piece. Recently I have been taking her with Anna in the Viks which means pretty great hands, and 2 sources of min 3 casting into engagements without randomising - pretty fun!

[Thottbot]

Just now, apes-ma said:

Yup! It's a conditional free AP, which is super super good - especially in a Von Schill crew! I find that as long as there are a couple of options for Ca actions that don't rely on triggers she is a really flexible piece. Recently I have been taking her with Anna in the Viks which means pretty great hands, and 2 sources of min 3 casting into engagements without randomising - pretty fun!

i was already thinking of getting hannah but now i SURELY see the appeal, next time i go mini shopping im getting a hannah 

[apes-ma]

Just now, Thottbot said:

i was already thinking of getting hannah but now i SURELY see the appeal, next time i go mini shopping im getting a hannah 

I take her a LOT - she's just so flexible! Even without any Ca actions in the crew she's GOOD (she CAN target enemies to copy Ca actions, it is resisted by Wp but it's also on Ca8, so it's not bad...) Also, although the model gets a lot of stick I really like it - lots of fun to build and paint.

[Thottbot]

Just now, apes-ma said:

I take her a LOT - she's just so flexible! Even without any Ca actions in the crew she's GOOD (she CAN target enemies to copy Ca actions, it is resisted by Wp but it's also on Ca8, so it's not bad...) Also, although the model gets a lot of stick I really like it - lots of fun to build and paint.

might even be worth in some of my arcanist crews i've been planning, the master sure would love that, effectivelly a 9 SS model, because arcane reservoir is almost always taken in my crews