Ophelia - positive sensations

[wizuriel]

Yeah I personally prefer her with liquid bravery and possible hide in the mud over dirty cheater. 

 

Though I do find the advantage with dirty cheater and up to double  is a lot of duels my opponent will choose not to cheat (or cheat to just give  dmg flips) letting me cheat in a low-moderate for her trigger.

But yeah I agree to really make her good she is too upgrade hungry now.  

[lame0]

5 hours ago, Runeman said:

I wouldn't give her Dirty Cheater anyway. Her crew likes it much more than she does, and she has at most three actions to cheat each turn, and she has kind of easy access to +-flips on her attacks, so cheating is less likely to be the best solution. 

I don't have book 4, so I don't know about Zipp, but comparing defensive stats, she has the most number of wounds - tied with everybody but Zoraida and Ulix, the highest defense, probably the third best defensive trigger (Zipp and Som'er are clearly better) and the best or second best damage reduction, which also allows her to help some of her crew, should she use it. And at the same time, she is clearly the one most likely to have Lenny nearby if she so wishes, and that would give her far superior damage reduction, alternatively she could keep a slop hauler around using Ooo, A Girl, which would instead give her some healing. I really think the ability to move some of our slower pieces around should be factored into her "tankiness", and I think all things considered, she is the most survivable master we have currently.

The only upgrade I could really see her taking is liquid bravery, and if she had one more slot or all her guns went in the same slot, I'd seriously consider it. But I also see it as a positive that she doesn't want to spend a lot on upgrades, as she seems to like to spend a lot on models.

I did have my first game with her in quite a while today, and I got to use the new upgrades. I didn't play very well and my opponents crew was a bit silly, but I got a sense of how much those upgrades add, and it is a lot. Healing, scheming and movement to a friendly model as a side effect of taking a shot with minimum damage 3. Not many masters can top that. She does have the problem of being kind of locked in her crew choices, as she really relies on having Kin around, but her crew will usually be pretty killy and mobile.

Yeah I mean if she works for you awesome and I'd love to hear about it. One thing about dirty cheater is that I think Somer, Wong and Zipp love that upgrade it makes them super annoying to kill granted I don't take it on them every time because like you said it makes or breaks a bunch of models (Burt especially). My issue is if I was going all out tank I'd want to take it on that model (Neutralize the leadership in pool or something) and that's one of the times I could have justified her.

Also dirty cheater is better on models with + flips because often it gives me the ability to cheat against models in cover or gives me a good shot at a straight flip to cheat damage. More opportunities to cheat means more heals a turn.

[Dominion]

19 hours ago, wizuriel said:

One thing Ophelia does better than the top 3 imo is she is tankier.

Most gremlin Masters at best have 1 df trick (and usually a trigger to push out of combat). If opponent can disable triggers they are in trouble. Wong has armor but iirc kind of meh df stats and has trouble getting out of combat.

 

Ophelia not only has a good df trigger, but good stats and plink to shrug off some damage. Also she doesn't mind being up close and personal as she can easily get double . 

Though she is also ht1 and can be devoured .

 

Francois or Sammy with On Yer Tip Toes is a good upgrade if you risk encountering a devour crew

you can save multiple models from it

as for healing, the Lucky effigy is waay more efficient than a dirty cheater (force you to cheat / wanted by others models) or a slop hauler (can be kill fairly easy) as she will flip a lot of cards

 

 

[Runeman]

On ‎18‎-‎09‎-‎2017 at 4:20 AM, lame0 said:

Yeah I mean if she works for you awesome and I'd love to hear about it. One thing about dirty cheater is that I think Somer, Wong and Zipp love that upgrade it makes them super annoying to kill granted I don't take it on them every time because like you said it makes or breaks a bunch of models (Burt especially). My issue is if I was going all out tank I'd want to take it on that model (Neutralize the leadership in pool or something) and that's one of the times I could have justified her.

Also dirty cheater is better on models with + flips because often it gives me the ability to cheat against models in cover or gives me a good shot at a straight flip to cheat damage. More opportunities to cheat means more heals a turn.

I can kind of see where you're coming from, since Ophelia needs some sort of healing to have the complete Gremlin survival kit. And a Lightning Bug really isn't the answer, so she can either have somebody with Quality Mash Liquor, a Slop Hauler or the Lucky Effigy around or have the Dirty Cheater upgrade, and I don't consider the latter as a real option. Perhaps an all Kin + the Lucky Effigy is a good option?

I still think she is the most survivable master we have, and I think her ability to do damage and give another crew member the chance to push, heal and scheme in the beginning of their activation for just a single action is very powerful, and gives her a distinct, interesting and effective playstyle.

[edopersichetti]

So the general consensus is the Ophelia is much better now, but to really shine she'd need to change something in her Upgrades management system. Let's hope designers hear us.

I do think our internal balance is shifting and getting better, at least in terms of masters. Don't forget Mah is now a much more viable option too.

Ulix is a summoner and a support master - I love him, but he fits a different role. Zipp is a great master, but he's essentially a very fast, gigantic flying distraction/killing piece. Compared to similar masters (Ophelia and Mah) he's technically a bit less killy in terms of raw damage (his Ht attack is great though), a bit faster and more of a distraction piece (disturbing/preventing interaction is great). Don't forget he's also insignificant though...

So that's good, it means we have variety. Also much depends on the meta, it does look like GG18 is going to reward more killy and elite crews (I just played a game of Public Executions yesterday, for example) and Ophelia and her Kin fit that role quite perfectly. I can see a shift: I definitely could yesterday, as I played against Leveticus and he'll easily surpass Hamelin as best Outcast master out there, if this is really the way they're going. BTW, Levi's 2 new upgrades are insane. Oh well...

A lot of it comes down to personal preference and experience, too. Some masters/crews just don't work for some people. If we did have a range of equally or almost equally viable masters that work better depending on players, it would be super cool. So far, the only perhaps hopeless case is Brewmaster (sigh). But it is kind of the way Malifaux works (or should work): an expert player with a sub-par master can beat an inexperienced player with a "better" master any day. A lot comes down to how familiar you are with the crew and its mechanics, and how much that playstyle suits you. I've seen people lose games after games with Collodi even though he's quite the powerhouse, for example.

My personal experience: I don't like Somer. I can see why people love him, I just don't. I haven't had much success with him, I've won far more games with Ophelia (even pre-upgrades) so I must clearly be doing something wrong, but that's the point: I am not expert in playing him and honestly not interested. IMHO he's dull, his fluff is dull, and I prefer to play Wong, Ulix, or Ophelia. I won tournaments without playing Somer and lost tournaments because I was playing Somer so...

Final thought: if Ophelia is encouraged to use Kin, it's a good thing IMO. The old days of Ophelia going around with non-thematic crew such as Old Cranky and Lenny for guaranteed 4min damage are gone anyway...courtesy of Errata. But thematic is nice! Some of the new upgrades for other masters are also going in this direction: I noticed Hamelin for instance is encouraged to use Blighted with one of the new upgrades (a thing that was always overlooked by Hamelin players), Lynch is pushed towards Brilliance, Pandora can now summon Poltergeist and Sorrows, Rasputina Ice Golem and Gamin etc.

So long live the Kin and hope for some re-touch in the next Errata! A shift in the hierarchies in stead of the usual trio Somer, Wong, Zipp would be VERY welcome, at least for me!

[-Loki-]

If they really want to push thematic Ophelia, she could do with some Kin Minions, like Perdita has Pistoleros and Monster Hunters.

[Finalscene]

21 hours ago, -Loki- said:

If they really want to push thematic Ophelia, she could do with some Kin Minions, like Perdita has Pistoleros and Monster Hunters.

I think a cool addition could be a tinkerer of some sort. Maybe they watched the Arcanists gunsmiths and thought "I can make special shooty stuff too" it could be fun to give out different ammo to other gremlins by discarding suits. Maybe even giving small boosts to shooters like Scopes or special glasses to help with cover. Ophelia could also use someone to toss her guns back to her. Like when Ophelia discards an upgrade, this model may discard a card to attach the same upgrade to her. It could be a sort of spotter, increasing her range or giving her focus with a tn. Just spitting out ideas

[SAYNE]

Holy piglets I think you're on to something. That sounds so fluffy and fun. Maybe like a 5ss Kin with either a discard mechanic ala bugs or just random like bayous. 

Tac action "Test number 7085: Ca4/ TN 9 Nearby friendly model within 4 aura gains one of the following triggers on their attacks until the end of the turn based on the card used to succeed this duel.

Rams: Crit strike

Crows: Exploding Pistol: After Target gains Burning +2. Suffer 1 wound.

Tomes: Glowing bullet: The damage ignored armor, htk, and incorporeal.

Mask: What about the time space continuum?!: Place an enemy model within 3". Push this model 3" in any direction.

 

Idk I could continue but break time is up!!

 

[Runeman]

Another game with Ophelia the other day (9-4 against Jacob Lynch). I still think she is one of our best masters. She has so many options and so many small synergies with her crew. She is in my opinion also the best suited to bring Lenny, as he can throw her and Francois into the middle of the board before they've activated turn one and she can still pull him up. Having the ability to place Francois and give him an on activation push and chain activating him while still doing some damage herself is a great deterrent.

I don't play her very well, but it seems to me that her versatility and personal damage potential really makes it hard for the opponent.

[Finalscene]

With Lenny, what do you do with him from turn 2/3 onward? I've played him once with new upgrade Ophelia and I found that there wasn't much for him to do since most of my other models were either doing their job far away from him or in the middle of combat. He tossed people turn 1 and 2 but then he kinda just stood there...

[Dominion]

14 hours ago, Runeman said:

Another game with Ophelia the other day (9-4 against Jacob Lynch). I still think she is one of our best masters. She has so many options and so many small synergies with her crew. She is in my opinion also the best suited to bring Lenny, as he can throw her and Francois into the middle of the board before they've activated turn one and she can still pull him up. Having the ability to place Francois and give him an on activation push and chain activating him while still doing some damage herself is a great deterrent.

I don't play her very well, but it seems to me that her versatility and personal damage potential really makes it hard for the opponent.

 

the pigapult is better at placing those models
throw three HT1 models (Ophelia + Francois + another) under 16" from your deployment (it's a place, so you can reach better places than a push)

activate Sammy With Hooch Igniter Walk + Move and burn
 

and you aren't even insignificant, so you can start placing scheme turn 1 (with the third model, maybe)

 

and on turn 2/3 you can always hire a couple of stuffed piglets and shoot things (or Launch other models)

[Math Mathonwy]

37 minutes ago, Dominion said:

 

the pigapult is better at placing those models
throw three HT1 models (Ophelia + Francois + another) under 16" from your deployment (it's a place, so you can reach better places than a push)

activate Sammy With Hooch Igniter Walk + Move and burn
 

and you aren't even insignificant, so you can start placing scheme turn 1 (with the third model, maybe)

 

and on turn 2/3 you can always hire a couple of stuffed piglets and shoot things (or Launch other models)

Pigapult, Sammy, and a couple of Stuffed Piglets is a lot more SS in support than hiring just Lenny. And Lenny is great with Young LaCroix.

[Runeman]

16 hours ago, Finalscene said:

With Lenny, what do you do with him from turn 2/3 onward? I've played him once with new upgrade Ophelia and I found that there wasn't much for him to do since most of my other models were either doing their job far away from him or in the middle of combat. He tossed people turn 1 and 2 but then he kinda just stood there...

If possible, I'd use Ophelia to pull him up closer to the centre of the board, since I really don't want to spend his actions trudging slowly forward. And as Math pointed out, the Young can really benefit from having Lenny nearby both using their own pistols and using My Threatening Gun, and both Raphael and Francois get quite dangerous on shooting if close to Lenny. If he has his upgrade, he can also sometimes either summon a piglet and do a bit of damage or get the opponent to cheat to avoid having a piglet in base contact. Also people often forget that he is a half decent beater himself if he gets the chance to use that treetrunk.

[Peppi]

Hello,

I don't have Gremlins. I tryed in my club Ophelia 3 times (no one play it) with a std kin list, adding here and there Sammy, Merris, Slop Haulers, Bayou Gremlins and Lenny. I liked it a lot, so I decided to buy and paint an Ophelia pool to use in some event in 2018. Actually I'm painting these models:

Ophelia box, Som'er box (just Lenny and 4 Bayou Gremlins), Sammy, Merris, 2 Slop Haulers, 1 Rooster Rider and 1 Iron Skeeter (gift from other Gremlins players)

am I missing some new/old model? With the new upgrades coming, what model wave 5 / GG2018 do you think will be popular?

thanks in advance

[Finalscene]

42 minutes ago, Peppi said:

Hello,

I don't have Gremlins. I tryed in my club Ophelia 3 times (no one play it) with a std kin list, adding here and there Sammy, Merris, Slop Haulers, Bayou Gremlins and Lenny. I liked it a lot, so I decided to buy and paint an Ophelia pool to use in some event in 2018. Actually I'm painting these models:

Ophelia box, Som'er box (just Lenny and 4 Bayou Gremlins), Sammy, Merris, 2 Slop Haulers, 1 Rooster Rider and 1 Iron Skeeter (gift from other Gremlins players)

am I missing some new/old model? With the new upgrades coming, what model wave 5 / GG2018 do you think will be popular?

thanks in advance

It seems like you have a solid pool for something and ohelia right now. From here, I would say to buy the creative taxidermy box. The taxidermists have changed my games since I started adding them in, and with the killing potential that Ophelia and Francois bring, there should be plenty of corpses to summon off of. I would also pick up merris as she's an amazing scheme runner and just becomes better with Ophelia since she is kin. I've also started bringing lucky effigy to give Ophelia an ability to heal 1 whenever she flips rams. She can flip alot during her turn since she can get double positive to attacks. Burt Jenson is also a great beater for his cost and he usually comes in my lists.

[SinJ]

I think that Ophelia has by far the most reliable way to deliver Pere turn 1. Placing him with Jug Rocket after pulling him along really lets you threaten bunched up crews. I really like Ophelia for the mirror matchup or vs Thunders.

[Math Mathonwy]

On 10/24/2017 at 2:53 PM, Finalscene said:

I've also started bringing lucky effigy to give Ophelia an ability to heal 1 whenever she flips rams. She can flip alot during her turn since she can get double positive to attacks. Burt Jenson is also a great beater for his cost and he usually comes in my lists.

Just to note that there's two interpretations on how Lucky Effigy works:

One interpretation doesn't care as much about flipping lots of cards (and makes the heal suck a lot in general, mind).

[lame0]

On 10/26/2017 at 2:52 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

Just to note that there's two interpretations on how Lucky Effigy works:

One interpretation doesn't care as much about flipping lots of cards (and makes the heal suck a lot in general, mind).

To me the last post does again get back to the core that every card flipped is a flip. TBH I feel like gremlins need quite a few errata just so everything is clear ( somer encouragement on the charge, flips (for effigy and emissary) etc)

[edopersichetti]

On 10/10/2017 at 1:35 PM, Runeman said:

Another game with Ophelia the other day (9-4 against Jacob Lynch). I still think she is one of our best masters. She has so many options and so many small synergies with her crew. She is in my opinion also the best suited to bring Lenny, as he can throw her and Francois into the middle of the board before they've activated turn one and she can still pull him up. Having the ability to place Francois and give him an on activation push and chain activating him while still doing some damage herself is a great deterrent.

I don't play her very well, but it seems to me that her versatility and personal damage potential really makes it hard for the opponent.

Yes, Lenny + Ophelia + Ooo a Girl worked amazing for me, and in general Lenny really fits well in a crew composed otherwise mainly of Kin.