Ortega and Criid can survive in GG18?

[Myyrä]

16 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

You probably run into trouble against Sandeep because he is frankly overpowered. Summoning without resources while also being a damage dealer and getting extra ap for himself as well as offering buff abilities for other models while also being survivable. He has too much stuff going on and nothing he can't do really well. Sonnia can deal some damage and sometimes summon for massive resources after setting up a pretty tricky situation. Lucius can support other models, the two of them combined still can't do what Sandeep does on his own.

Sonnia can deal a hell of a lot more damage than Sandeep ever can.

[4thstringer]

Posted the offer to the Arcanist forums.  Lets see what they say- 

 

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

Sonnia can deal a hell of a lot more damage than Sandeep ever can.

Sure she can, in a perfect storm. She also frequently has very few targets that aren't soulstone users in hard cover because you don't play on a shooting gallery and then dies in the first activation of turn two because the arcanist gets a bonus to intiative.

[Myyrä]

5 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Sure she can, in a perfect storm. She also frequently has very few targets that aren't soulstone users in hard cover because you don't play on a shooting gallery and then dies in the first activation of turn two because the arcanist gets a bonus to intiative.

Just attack those few targets then.

[Legislat]

2 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Sure she can, in a perfect storm. She also frequently has very few targets that aren't soulstone users in hard cover because you don't play on a shooting gallery and then dies in the first activation of turn two because the arcanist gets a bonus to intiative.

This. Sonnia is not that great against a smart opponent. And she needs a batallion of babysitters to work properly. The fact is she just cant quite deny opponents schemes and strategies without killing. And this can be avoided (yes, really). We've yet too see how new upgrades will change that.

[Ludvig]

Just now, Myyrä said:

Just attack those few targets then.

In the two interference matches at ITC I took her in had one target in one of the matches not in hard cover or a soulstone user (it had hard to wound). All the other models within attack range after my available pushes were behind the massive hard cover blockers that were on those boards. I did get to blast off Marcus and hit one other model for three damage. A decent player should be able to calculate her exact threat range and adjust or spread out their crew to mitigate her blasts. That triple cerberus list was hard to stay out of engagement against since they just jumped right across my flame walls without breaking a sweat and ate all my models. 

[Myyrä]

Three cerberuses would never manage to leap on the same turn if I played them.

[Ludvig]

1 minute ago, Myyrä said:

Three cerberuses would never manage to leap on the same turn if I played them.

One of them whiffed it's leap, other two succeeded. I would assume he saved some suits from turn one but didn't ask.

[Ludvig]

11 minutes ago, Legislat said:

This. Sonnia is not that great against a smart opponent. And she needs a batallion of babysitters to work properly. The fact is she just cant quite deny opponents schemes and strategies without killing. And this can be avoided (yes, really). We've yet too see how new upgrades will change that.

She should have gotten Perdita's thing with removing markers only it should have been any marker touched by the blasts on her attacks  

[Legislat]

Just now, Ludvig said:

She should have gotten Perdita's thing with removing markers only it should have been any marker touched by the blasts on her attacks  

That would've been super nice.

[trikk]

58 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Most of my experience is from pre errata when we was solidly crap. Post errata I've won a couple of games. Strats like headhunter and that one with five center line markers where making a bunch of models interact while engaged has worked well for me. The old condition schemes are also good for him since he can get them done qhile denying.

I personally think he`s a Nellie on hard mode.

[4thstringer]

Played with new perdita tonight.  The one upgrade got me 4 cards because I bombed the init flips.the other shot a marker out from 11inches away getting me a point for recover evidence.

Perdita really likes jury against shooty crews.  My opponents were too afraid to ever shoot at her knowing the mask was there.

The shooting markers off the board and easy obey access really makes her a toolbox.  Its beautiful.

[Adran]

14 hours ago, Rostislav said:

As for me, Sonnia doesn't need summon upgrade.
We have to build the list accoarding to the pros and cons of masters.

 Sonnia doesn't have enough resourses to summon Stalkers and usually has to spend precious action to ger into 10' summon range

 

13 hours ago, Legislat said:

This. Sonnia is not that great against a smart opponent. And she needs a batallion of babysitters to work properly. The fact is she just cant quite deny opponents schemes and strategies without killing. And this can be avoided (yes, really). We've yet too see how new upgrades will change that.

I've seen good Sonnia players run Re-incarnate and use it to great effect, getting 3-5 stalkers most games. It was rare for her to not be killing things turn one. her denial is largely death from afar, but its pretty hard to avoid it whilst still trying to score most of strats. (Flame wall is fairly decent denial as well). She does excel at removing most cheap scheme running models, where she seems to struggle is against "elite" opponents, where she would rather concentrated damage rather than just damaging the whole field a bit. 

[4thstringer]

14 hours ago, trikk said:

I personally think he`s a Nellie on hard mode.

When I first played Nellie my first thought was"this is what Lucius was meant to be".

That being said, Nellie is tier one, but the gap isnt big enough that Lucius is unplayable anymore.  Nellie is a master I rarely bring due to competitive balance issues in our meta. Lucius I have no such issuer.

[Rostislav]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

 

I've seen good Sonnia players run Re-incarnate and use it to great effect, getting 3-5 stalkers most games. It was rare for her to not be killing things turn one. her denial is largely death from afar, but its pretty hard to avoid it whilst still trying to score most of strats. (Flame wall is fairly decent denial as well). She does excel at removing most cheap scheme running models, where she seems to struggle is against "elite" opponents, where she would rather concentrated damage rather than just damaging the whole field a bit. 

Maybe we play different Sonnias =)

[Rostislav]

To add about Sonnia.

I played her 3 times vs unskilled players.
I said multiple times that she is dangerous, that she generates many blasts and her Ca is hard to deny.

2 of them were wiped out on turn 2, Ramos crew was wiped out on turn 3.

Now I don't play Sonnia with them.

Other players rarely give me opportunity to kill something on turn 1. They hide, they try not to group up and try to lock her in combat.
When I play vs them I usually don't stand within 10" of enemy to summon stalkers.

Also I spend 2 cards to get CA 9 or Def 6 and don't have spare cards to summon Stalkers.

 

[jchrisobrien]

After playing Outcasts for half the year, I'm going back to my first faction (Guild) for GG playtesting.  I'm starting with Perdita, will play her through all five scenarios then rotate someone else in. The mere presence of "Fastest Draw in Malifaux" has been enough to have me win initiatives most rounds, which helped me win some key encounters.  Haven't used the Jury with her yet, but I will for my next three games. I think Shooting Cans will be more useful than people think.  Perdita's damage output increases a lot when you can pitch a card to get the Witched Bullet any time you want it!

[4thstringer]

47 minutes ago, jchrisobrien said:

After playing Outcasts for half the year, I'm going back to my first faction (Guild) for GG playtesting.  I'm starting with Perdita, will play her through all five scenarios then rotate someone else in. The mere presence of "Fastest Draw in Malifaux" has been enough to have me win initiatives most rounds, which helped me win some key encounters.  Haven't used the Jury with her yet, but I will for my next three games. I think Shooting Cans will be more useful than people think.  Perdita's damage output increases a lot when you can pitch a card to get the Witched Bullet any time you want it!

I found ditching a card for witched bullet to then cheat in severe to be very expensive, but it does help with AP efficiency.  If it weren't for Schill giving out a bunch of htk equivalent, my opponent's crew would have melted despite me spending activations to ply.

[jchrisobrien]

If  she's not in close and getting bonus Ram's for critical strike, the mask is great for turning a negative flip to a straight flip.  Perdita gets more use out of her moderate cards (4 vs 5 dmg) and you can save the severe cards for models with higher severe dmg (Franc, Papa, McTavish, Peacekeeper).

I hope to get a couple games in over the weekend for some data to back this up.

[4thstringer]

In a quick round against Marcus tonight Sonnia removed myranda almost killed marcus and killed jackalope twice. 

In gg2018 the  strats seem to really encourage sitting back and shooting your opponent.  And the always scheme doesn't require you to go to the middle to prevent. 

[Stonewall78]

I have played Sonnia almost exclusively the last year. Gg2017 was horrible for her. Everything that helps her is usually alow so getting and holding mid field is not going to happen. Getting heads isn't possible as everything dies so far away. I am thinking i am going to relearn her all over this year and that gg2018 will be a lot more kind.

[Fazza92]

Yesterday I've tried Perdita with new upgrades (no new models),with GG18.

For the first time I've done 3 points for strategy in table quarter's strategy(ours?)against a summoner(Dreamer ).

I've lose anyway but I've choose collect evidence to try it ,and I've done only a point by it 

[RhiaCat]

I played a game today with Sonnia using both new upgrades.

No More Masks saw absolutely 0 use since Sonnia never got in Melee. 

Cherufe's Parting Gift, though, was amazing. The fact that the summon doesn't require LoS OR Range means you're almost always getting free activation control with the Purifying Flame, or at the very least eating a few AP from your opponent. Add in a - flip to casts from Disrupt Magic and giving her long range chain activations, and I think she has a much better time. Especially since the timing of the summon is a little nicer, letting her summon after killing instead of after reducing to 0 wounds (she gets to use her trigger to apply burning!). I've always thought the Purifying Flame was too squishy to do its job, and to be honest I forgot how good the preventing Soulstones was. Sonnia can definitely pull off some clever bullshit to kill off masters and henchmen now.

Overall, I'm REALLY happy with Parting Gift. I wasn't sure about it, but after trying it out, it is one HELL of an upgrade.

[Myyrä]

2 hours ago, RhiaCat said:

 Especially since the timing of the summon is a little nicer, letting her summon after killing instead of after reducing to 0 wounds (she gets to use her trigger to apply burning!).

Sorry to poop your party, but after killing also happens before after damaging.

[Tris]

On 1.9.2017 at 5:37 PM, 4thstringer said:

I found ditching a card for witched bullet to then cheat in severe to be very expensive, but it does help with AP efficiency.  If it weren't for Schill giving out a bunch of htk equivalent, my opponent's crew would have melted despite me spending activations to ply.

As was stated before, Perditas medium damage is sufficient and often worth the card, especially if you consider that Guild got some nice card draw now