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If you were writting te next erratta....


generalbear

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Right bayous,
If you were suddenly writing the next erratta from your gremlin point of view, what do you boost and what do you Cuddle?
( obviously this would need to be bias free and not just ake gremlins ridiculously over powered )

Curious to see your responses i think we all have models we think would work better one way or with a certain ability , curious to see if the general consenus is similar fro the grelin players

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Change:

Mah: I think her weapon triggers and chores need to be redone

Bushwhackers: No idea how to make them usable

Pigapult: reduce cost by 2 and If you hire it, reduce the cost of ammo models by 1. Remove reckless but change bacon load to giving one additional Sh action

 

Buff

Moon Shinobi: Give them from the shadows

Ophelia: Have her gun upgrades not count towards upgrade limits

Spark: Give an upgrade to turn wounded or killed gremlins into survivors

 

Cuddle:

Fingers: Add TN to his tactical actions

Burt: Either increase cost by 1 or change reckless to drunk & reckless

Somer: Change thinkin luck trigger to dumb luck

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hmmm...

Well I think the most egregious model rn is the Pigapult - it doesn't do its intended job of long range artillery very well but works ridiculously well for breaking certain strats and schemes. I would probably end up rewriting it majorly. Because I have nothing better to do with myself, here's my go at Pigapult 2.0.

  • Keep stats as is
  • Remove Bacon Load ability
  • Totally redo back of card actions:
    • Remove Bacon Barrage
    • Launch'n -> Launch'n (Sh 6 / Rst: Df / Rg: :ranged24): This action does not need LoS, ignores cover and may only be taken if there is a friendly Ht1 model within 2". Place a friendly Ht1 model within 2" in base contact with the target, then the target suffers 3/5/7 damage. The placed model suffers half the damage flipped, and if it is still in play gains the Slow (paralysed?) and Insignificant conditions.
      :crowHard Landing: Instead of suffering half the damage flipped, the placed model suffers 4 damage.
    • Rocks is Pigs -> Junk is Pigs? (Sh 4 / Rst: Df / Rg: :ranged12): Target suffers 2/3/5 damage. When declaring this action, discard a Scheme, Corpse, or Scrap marker within 2" to increase the Sh to 6 and the Rg to :ranged24. This action does not need LoS and ignores cover.

Some reasoning:

General consensus on the Pult is that it is silly good for things like Recon thanks to Launch'n and that it is too expensive to hire ammo for. This gives it a devestating attack that costs even more than its current bacon barrage but the ammo is less restrictive, and the Hard Landing trigger is to make Stuffies strong ammo (kill em for the extra explosion). Plus it adds some counterplay because you have to win an opposed duel to place and you drop it next to an enemy. You can still do the whole "drop schemers across the board" but if you want to do it unopposed then you have to already  have a model there, and they will both take damage. Then Junk is Pigs gives a slightly weaker attack than Bacon Barrage but that has easier access to ammo.

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I'd do the following

Moon shinobi

Give them a (0) ca:6 tn:12 push this model up to 5" inches. If this model ends this push within 1" of a poisoned model take a (1) action. 

This would be cool because if a friendly or the enemy is poisoned they get the secondary benefit. This action isn't free but it makes up for not having reckless.

Bushwhacker (most over priced model in the faction)

For each focus used on their shooting action they get +1 damage. And give them reckless. 

The new way focus applies would make it likely that they use double focus and end up with a 3/5/6 shooting attack which is pretty decent. Or maybe focus shoot twice using their special ability for the second shot.

Ophelia 

Gunline (0) (ca: 6 tn: 14 rg: 1:aura) discard a card all models within  :aura 1 have a :ram added to it's duel totals. Gun line can only be used if Ophelia has three upgrades attached to her.

This eats one of her 0s but then she can do damage and give a small aura of rams. Also this makes it so that you need to be set up to get this ability and your opponent could potentially force you to not be able to cast it. Also if an enemy is engaged within one you could give them a :ram trigger vs you.

Burt: give him the crazy expensive ability. To hire Burt as a mercenary you must pay an additional 2 ss instead of 1ss. (This is where Burt is most abused)

Stuffed piglet: give them the cache back ability. At the start of the game add a stone to the masters cache for each stuffed piglet hired. This ability can not bring a masters cache above 7.

This kind of reduces the cost of stuffed piglets again but reduces your ability to hire more models. So technically three stuffed piglets cost 9 stones but you get 3 stones added to your cache. The benefit is that it stops you from flooding the board with models but gives you a resource back. Also no master would ever take more than 3-4 because then they stop getting the benefit of cache back.(still let's you though so if you really wanted to you could hire 6.)

Rooster Rider 

Give it two more wounds. This makes them less of a liability to go totally nuts in the middle of your crew in one hit. (You might see it with the two extra wounds)

Sparks: make his (0) only target a friendly model and discard a scrap marker within 6 so that he can use his trigger to push a friendly gremlin regardless of if you have a scrap marker or not.

This makes his 0 not totally terrible if you don't have a scrap marker and maybe makes him worthwhile.

If the cache back ability is put on the stuffed piglets I think the pigapult would be fine.

Brewmaster 

Access to all tri-chi for 1ss and make his drinking contest 6 inches.

Overall I think this would make a bunch of sub par choices better and also deal with Burt being used so much out of faction. 

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 I like all these ideas. If tri chi models could have auras of passive poison I'd be happy. The extra soul stone for mercenary Burt would be good. I'd  be fine with Somer being toned down a little if they made a couple models better/cheaper. Maybe Mancha Roja and the Whiskey golem dropping to 9 stones? Oh, and min damage 2 on Rami so he doesn't have to kill himself to be an effective sniper. 

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9 hours ago, anumberone said:

 I like all these ideas. If tri chi models could have auras of passive poison I'd be happy. The extra soul stone for mercenary Burt would be good. I'd  be fine with Somer being toned down a little if they made a couple models better/cheaper. Maybe Mancha Roja and the Whiskey golem dropping to 9 stones? Oh, and min damage 2 on Rami so he doesn't have to kill himself to be an effective sniper. 

I do have to say I would not considered cuddling Somer or any master for that matter right after all these upgrades and new models. Currently every faction has 1-2 super strong masters and I don't think changing the way those masters play is the way to do it. Wyrd has been taking the approach of slowly buffing weaker masters over highly touching the strong ones. If I Cuddle a support model or a faction staple something slightly less efficient will replace it....but there honestly isn't a good master replacement for masters like Somer or Nellie etc. Also not to speak negatively about wyrd but Gremlins Cuddles have all come heavy handed so I would rather they Cuddle Burt and another support model over losing important stuff on Somers card. (Plus I think Collodi and Sandeep are as strong or stronger than Somer so yeah...)

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 Oh, I agree with you, lame0, I don't actually think Somer should be Cuddled myself. I've come to realize that since we are the most under represented faction, anti gremlin sentiments seem as or more prevalent as well reasoned pro gremlin ones.

People want to tell us what's broken about gremlins without actually playing gremlins, therefore never realizing how fragile they are, and how unplayable they would be without access to healing. It would be like us complaining about summoners with amazing summons without realizing they often need high cards, stones and corpse markers to make it happen. 

 I bring up a Somer Cuddle only as a sort of bargaining chip. The guys who play the other 6 more popular factions speak much more often about our fantastic models and have made guys like Burt or Mctavish even better in their own factions in some cases. They often only see Somer at tournaments because he's usually our best choice and they see his strength if played by a great player, or at least his potential if played by the likes of me. So they cry op.

 Maybe if we were brave for a 3 month period and took mostly under powered and under played models to tournaments in that time frame people could see what needs some work. But it would require the effort of strong players using sub par models and not just under powered master plus Burt and company. And that seems less likely than the good news is we buffed models a, b and c. The bad news is a Cuddled Somer.

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Buffs:

1) Survivors: I'd love to try the Survivors but in their current form I'm super leery of spending the money. Give them an additional wound (at least 1) and maybe just give them the :ranged on their attack instead of making them flip for it. That cast could be replaced with a low grade heal if they they're near a scrap marker or maybe the ability to gain Armor+1 for a turn from a scrap marker?

2) Emissary: give it Pig, Gremlin and/or Construct! How about a front of card ability that allows it to choose one of those keywords at the start of the game to help balance it a little? For God's sake it's a giant wooden wheel with a pig AND a gremlin!

Cuddle:

1) Burt: lose Mercenary. I know it's not that much of a cuddle to us as a faction but if he's better out of faction.....?

 

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2 hours ago, the tick said:

Buffs:

1) Survivors: I'd love to try the Survivors but in their current form I'm super leery of spending the money. Give them an additional wound (at least 1) and maybe just give them the :ranged on their attack instead of making them flip for it. That cast could be replaced with a low grade heal if they they're near a scrap marker or maybe the ability to gain Armor+1 for a turn from a scrap marker?

2) Emissary: give it Pig, Gremlin and/or Construct! How about a front of card ability that allows it to choose one of those keywords at the start of the game to help balance it a little? For God's sake it's a giant wooden wheel with a pig AND a gremlin!

 

  Yup, I think that's a good direction for Survivors.

 A million times yes for the emissay getting to choose a key word at the start of the game. If I could make him a pig he'd be a huge asset to Ulix. Another hard hitting, tanky big pig I could summon off of and adequate back up for Gracie.

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4 hours ago, anumberone said:

  Yup, I think that's a good direction for Survivors.

 A million times yes for the emissay getting to choose a key word at the start of the game. If I could make him a pig he'd be a huge asset to Ulix. Another hard hitting, tanky big pig I could summon off of and adequate back up for Gracie.

Agreed most of our crews are very theme oriented and it would make a huge difference in somer/ulix/zipp. It would be cool if it could also be a swampfiend allowing for added growth in our small pool of decent swampfiends. 

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7 hours ago, lame0 said:

Agreed most of our crews are very theme oriented and it would make a huge difference in somer/ulix/zipp. It would be cool if it could also be a swampfiend allowing for added growth in our small pool of decent swampfiends. 

Making it Swampfiend would allow Reactivate from Bokor  which might be a bit excessive :P 

As for Burt losing Mercenary - I think that Wyrd would be reluctant to do so since it would invalidate the model from some collections. Maybe give him "Expensive" or something so that he costs 2SS extra when hired as a Merc instead of the usual 1SS extra. And then add 1 to his cost. 8SS in Gremlins, 10SS elsewhere. Would make him balanced with the likes of Bishop and such.

McTavish could have the Expensive as well. Zoraida could still hire him at normal cost for Neverborn through her Upgrade but others would need to pay the extra Stone. I think that he'd still be competitive.

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I don't feel any of our models are over powered and need toned down. 

In order of preference I think the following could do with a boost :

Serious boost:

Survivors 

Brewmaster 

Little boost:

Sparks (which could even be achieved by a 1SS upgrade that increases his utility ) 

Bush whackers (they're just a little off the pace. +1sh or +1 damage would do it) 

Stuffed piglets (I think the cache back ability would be ideal) - they feel like a 2.5 stone model. 

There's been a lot of chat about internal balance but, in my opinion, addressing these models wound basically fix that. 

I'm not sure about Mah. Do her new upgrades fix her? 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Rosskov said:

Bush whackers (they're just a little off the pace. +1sh or +1 damage would do it) 

I think the change that would help them most is if they didn't randomize. This would make them more useful with Mah which is thematic and it would also put them at a nice place in the faction as they are different enough from most other models in a similar price bracket as they don't have reckless but they do have a consistent way to apply damage from range. 

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3 hours ago, PositronMike said:

One model I think could do with buffing after the January errata is Lenny. Making him a henchman and turning his Pet the Piggy action into a (0) would help his survivability immensely. He would still be easy to hit but he would have a better chance of recovering from the damage.

I like the general direction of this one but I think making him a henchman would make him an auto include in every list outside Somer (maybe even in somer). Summoning two piglets a turn on turn 1 & 2 would be way to much to pass up for a 10 ss model (stoning for suite is a HUGE buff for him.)

I think his buff should be super simple make his Big Target Aura affect him (which gives him a hard to ignore psudo armor and requires an errata of only one word "other").

I agree on giving him the heal as a (0) but I'd make one of two changes.

1) make it tn 12 (so you need a 7) and make both flips uncheatable. The beauty of this is that it gives Lenny a slightly odds favored flip to getting a 1/2/3 heal off but makes him swingyer allowing for literal dumb luck games where he heals a ton or other games where he could have a glut of healing. This leads to a fun luck flip situation because it's a (0) so it's not like your spending a resource but can have a nice pay off. Also with all the ways Gremlins have to stack the deck it could also make for some interesting interactions at times. At the end this works out to being a little more healing on average than regen 1 but I think it would be a fun way to give it and could stick to the variance theme wyrd has been pushing us toward. (But still having a positive effect on the game that doesn't feel terrible if it doesn't work out.)

2) make the Tn 15 (needs a 10). I think at least you'd give it a shot since it's "free" and sometimes it could be worth cheating in clutch moments.

Both healing options have their pluses and minuses but I'd prefer the more thematic approach. 

I think overall either healing option and getting his own Big Target Aura would make him a competitive model but not over the top.

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Mah needs a major rework.

Pigapult: major rework too.

By major rework I mean at the very least re-write the core abilities (chores and such, and for pigapult the ammo mechanic).

Lucky Emissary: he's possibly one of our most wrong models. I'd hardly expect to see him ever played and mind you, I've tried...steep cost, and he just doesn't have enough synergy with any particular crew...but he's also the one less likely to get changed, unfortunately :(

I'd love to see Moon Shinobi get played again: reckless would be great. Drunk and reckless would make even more sense from fluff...perhaps something can be done there :D

The whole Brewmaster crew needs a way to spread poison effectively, if they wanna go that route...why can't Brewmaster have just a passive aura effect where models get poisoned if they stand too close? If they start and/or end their activation there, etc. This would immediately bump up his utility... Don't think it'll break him, perhaps this could be softened by giving the models a Wp duel or something to pass, but still. It seems like the most natural solution to me.

Mainly though, I'd love to see the proposed Ophelia change. I'm so very fond of her, I think she's awesome, and the 3 guns not counting would help so much. I wrote an entire post about her in my latest game, she did really well, the new upgrades helped quite a bit and even Brin was very useful, so with the guns change she could rise to the top again.

Re: Lenny. I wouldn't mind a buff on him, but he still has his uses - in a crew with lots of Ht 1 models, a 10" toss is great, and the extra ram/damage reduction really helps.

Finally, this is not an errata proposal, but more of a question. What's the point of Banjonistas??? Anybody tried them, has had success, has suggestions?

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At this point I would say we need 0ss upgrades for our henchies to buff their corresponding minions.

This would allow us to play these minions ( I still would not but hey, fluffy players and what not)

 

Trixie needs a 0ss upgrade that lets bushwackers focus for a 0 / free / or a card discard  and something extra

Sparks needs a 0ss/1ss upgrade that lets him summon survivors and give them something (regen 1 ?)

McTavish needs a 0ss upgrade that buffs for wildboars/gators that gives them something

Sammy needs a 0ss upgrade that buffs our stuffed pigs (because at 3ss each I will never hire them again)

 

I would also love a 0ss upgrade for Mancha to have better interaction with wrestlers (a reason to take Mancha, the wrestlers are pretty good already) 

Maybe if he is engaged with a model that is also engaged with a wrestler he gets free Rams?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

Finally, this is not an errata proposal, but more of a question. What's the point of Banjonistas??? Anybody tried them, has had success, has suggestions?

One with Zoraida is nice, use the doll to drop Paranoid onto it and the Hem target, then when you activate it you obviously don't discard a card. So you get 4 damage or 2 and a card discard for 1AP, plus if you've got the doll in a decent position, you force the simple Wp duels on nearby enemies too, so you might get lucky and get a bit more damage or card discard going.

Otherwise they're pretty neat, the push is the main reason to take them, but the card draw is very nice and they have an 8" non randomising, armour ignoring attack which is nothing to sniff at.

23 minutes ago, PolishSausage said:

6-8 with Somer or don't bother

This is super funny and I have done it to great effect (you never need to take a Walk action!) but I think it's kinda unfair to Banjonistas to say this is the only way they're viable. I've been using them since pretty much the book came out fairly regularly and I know at least one of my local opponents makes them a quite high priority target because of all the little things they do really adding up.

Plus if Hold Up Their Forces sticks around in its current or a similar form for GG2018, I expect they'll be very very useful then to simultaneously pop into and out of engagements to try to maximise/deny scoring.

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4 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Mah needs a major rework...

Sounds like this one has a lot of traction with the community. I don't own her (yet) so I can't really speak to the changes she might need. Conceptually speaking what direction is best to take Mah? Ive heard her compared to Zipp? I don't imagine that her core theme of melee beater/booster needs to change but what things might help her out? Is there another master in another faction that might form a decent mold to use for the re-imagined Mah Tucket?

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Mah is OK~ ish

Quickest way to fix her now would be to look at her upgrades combine them into 1 card. Apron/diving charge/1ap charge could have all been on 1 card.

If you think that s too many abilities on 1 card look at new Lylyth upgrade ( she gets 4 passive abilities on 1 card)

 

This way Mah has now more options to take stilts/dirty cheater that would help her survive longer.

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I agree with @PolishSausage: she's not all bad, but she's essentially flawed in that she's very card hungry and many important abilities for her were "forgotten". Some really should be built in the base card (extra range or diving charge, for instance) and some could be part of 1 upgrade card. Instead, they have abilities spread over a multitude of upgrades that try to fix her...it's a bit messy.

Also, her role suffers now more than before because she's essentially a very mobile distraction piece...so yeah, that's what Zipp does, and he's more mobile, more distracting, and hits equally hard I'd say (perhaps less base damage, but his attack targets Ht, can't be reduced, and has the great bonus of moving the target around). She isn't really a beater, and she's a bit squishy defensively (Zipp is much better in that aspect too).

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