Henchman hardcore

[Tris]

Finesse is also worthless against Huggy as it says Ml actions get the , it does sound like your line of thought was it would keep you safe from Huggy and the Illuminated, although I don't know that for sure of course

Sounds like Quellers gave our HH lists quite a boost^^

[thewrathchilde]

17 hours ago, Tris said:

Finesse is also worthless against Huggy as it says Ml actions get the , it does sound like your line of thought was it would keep you safe from Huggy and the Illuminated, although I don't know that for sure of course

Sounds like Quellers gave our HH lists quite a boost^^

No, Finesse was to ensure that the Illuminated and Torakage weren't able to do much. I wasn’t too worried about Huggy going after Frank by himself as I had the cards to cheat at least once (twice if I had to) to protect him since Ryle wasn’t going to need to cheat to pound on Huggy’s DF 3....

I didn’t want Frank to get pounded on by all 3 though. He wasn’t going to be able to take that without exhausting all my resources. Finesse made sure the Illuminated wasn’t doing much and ended up getting the Torakage to just wander off. 

[Bazlord_Prime]

Forgive the necro...

But we've just started playing a bit of HH as a last hurrah for M2e, and in order to get some enthusiasm back, ahead of M3e (which we're hoping will be soon??). 

Last night, we all took models we'd never/hardly played in M2e, and most of us got wasted by this combo:

Ryle + Executioner (Ready to Work) + Hunter + Brutal Effigy.

The Effigy's (0) "Fear Not The Sword" proved too useful, and who needs both Ryle AND an Executioner in your face? Also, the Hunter was working surprisingly well with its Harpoon dragging our models out of position, and into the death zone. So far, this is the list to beat (in our little group).

Just FYI, I took:

Samael (Witch Hunt, Dampening Field) + Witchling Handler + 2x Witchling Stalkers.

Wasn't happy with Sam's squishiness, and it always seemed that he had to be the one putting Burning on models, for some reason. I know - I didn't play him well, but I'm keen to try him again, as his damage output is enticingly high. Just was disappointed by the lack of synergy of the other models, in that none of them gained anything from an enemy having Burning.

Any ideas? I'm already thinking about a Freikorps Specialist and a Guardian instead...

[4thstringer]

9 hours ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

Forgive the necro...

But we've just started playing a bit of HH as a last hurrah for M2e, and in order to get some enthusiasm back, ahead of M3e (which we're hoping will be soon??). 

Last night, we all took models we'd never/hardly played in M2e, and most of us got wasted by this combo:

Ryle + Executioner (Ready to Work) + Hunter + Brutal Effigy.

The Effigy's (0) "Fear Not The Sword" proved too useful, and who needs both Ryle AND an Executioner in your face? Also, the Hunter was working surprisingly well with its Harpoon dragging our models out of position, and into the death zone. So far, this is the list to beat (in our little group).

Just FYI, I took:

Samael (Witch Hunt, Dampening Field) + Witchling Handler + 2x Witchling Stalkers.

Wasn't happy with Sam's squishiness, and it always seemed that he had to be the one putting Burning on models, for some reason. I know - I didn't play him well, but I'm keen to try him again, as his damage output is enticingly high. Just was disappointed by the lack of synergy of the other models, in that none of them gained anything from an enemy having Burning.

 Any ideas? I'm already thinking about a Freikorps Specialist and a Guardian instead...

God, I think it has been longer than since this thread started that I played henchmen hardcore, and months since I played 2 e, so apologies if my memory is rusty.

LLC at 1 pt feels like an auto take for Sam and Witchling Handler if you wanted to run those.  

I thought that once the buffed the guardian, he was just solid period.  

I also notice no debt to the guild in the list.  I think I would be packing that too.

If you are trying to build a sam list, I think mine would look like

Sam, (LLC, Debt), Frank (LLC), 3 guild guard. (if there is a limit on model count that I'm not remembering, I'd swap 2 gg for either a queller or a monster hunter)

An interesting alternative is Sam, Frank, Guardian, Sanctioned spellcaster (I think that is 20 on the dot).  make the SS the only one at risk, and channel all the buffs and attacks through him. 

[Corn]

So I actually basically ran that Witch Hunter List for the Henchmen Hardcore event at Adepticon this year (although I used Debt to the Guild and Disrupt Magic).  I ended up placing third overall- I lost at one of the top tables to a Ryle + Peacekeeper + Proxy + Effigy (which won the event and doesn't help with your problem ).  So even though I got absolutely smacked around by Ryle. at least it was on a top table.  Its a good list, just as some big weaknesses that Ryle exploits.

The Witch Hunter list wins big or losses big.  I think you were focusing too much on Sam, when really the crew is about getting Stalkers into combat as quickly as possible.  Sam's job is to punish anything that kills a Stalker.   So you use the Handler's pushes to sling the Stalkers forwards.  You charge whenever you can, and Sam hangs back.  Once a Stalker dies, it explodes, and you respond with a Rapid Fire from Sam, popping Debt to the Guild and wasting either their most expensive piece or their Henchmen if possible.  The crew plays by converting your own losses into damage spikes from Sam and trading up against your opponent.    Crews that rely on conditions will struggle mightily against 2 stalkers, and any crew that relies heavily on casting can get shut down by Disrupt Magic.  This leads to having really strong match ups against Neverborn who typically play right into your style, lots of melee casters and little ranged presence or armour means your game plan goes off without a hitch (watch out for Angel Eyes... but who runs her in a real game?).  Arcanists can also really struggle- outside of Cult of December. 

The crews biggest weaknesses are against ranged tank crews, which can hang back out of Sam's range, and punish your fragile Stalkers which NEED to get to the middle to score.  Ryle is especially dangerous because he typically runs a lot of armor and healing in his crew which makes the Witch Hunters quite literally punch themselves out.  As your damage spike isn't enough to kill his stuff, and you aren't able to trade up, any Witchlings who die from range and/or explode out of Sam's range are big losses.  Snowstorm is also a problem.  Her crew usually has a lot of healing (Silent Ones), Snowstorm is basically immune to Sam, Acolytes are also dangerous shooters who can hand out slow and damage, and the maneuverability is dizzying.   Outside of those match ups though, I usually felt that I held the upper hand.  

So uh, if your goal is to beat a strong Ryle list, i don't think Witch Hunters will do it, but they are definitely a solid HH crew, and are a blast to play once you get the hang of it.  On the subject of Ryle lists.  He is a dirty dirty man in HH.  He is durable, has good shooting, and is no joke in melee and has a push for good measure if he needs maneuverability.  Ryle is tough for anyone to beat, and definitely one of the strongest HH crews in the game.  

 

EDIT: 

I also think Judge is pretty sneaky in HH with a Marshal crew.  Judge- Unrelenting Leader, LLC, Recruiter, Marshal, Effigy.  Judge has a big cache and is pretty durable- especially with the jacket.  Without a master, Judge is free to spend his 5 soulstones on combos with blades and bullets or unrelenting leader (and each hit heals him up a bit more, although Debt to the Guild and a LLC for the Recruiter is a solid option as well), and the Recruiter can keep people alive with discards if things get dicey.  The Recruiter and Death Marshal also are a huge threat to crews that rely on one or two big beaters, as if those get boxed, it can quickly make the game go belly up.   The Recruiter is the weak point in the crew, but keeping him a bit further back and using Judge to attract attention can help.

 

 

 

[Ludvig]

@Bazlord_Prime

My number one suggestion would be dropping the idea of Sam as your leader.   I've tried him in HH on several occasions and he just isn't a tanky leader suited for it. He is a glass cannon that relies on a lot of support (usually Sonnia) to reach his full potential. If you are hell bent on Sam I would pick other upgrades and use Francisco to give him at least a shot at staying around and add some damage. Using Sam for rapid fire instead of wasting ap trying to put burning out is probably more efficient. Can't remember if hench leaders can take Debt to the guild but rapid firing with that on the opposing leader is usually pretty effective. Edit: saw that others also gave some good advice while I had my answering typed out but not posted.

In my experience Ryle is really solid as a leader and you are usually better off with a disposable heavy hitter like the executioner and cheap chaff that can just stand around for the strat than trying to take a list with several mid-range models. I guess monster hunters might work pretty well instead of stalkers, they pack a punch. 

[Corn]

I actually really enjoy HH a lot due to how quickly the game plays.  It also allows you to test different team compositions pretty efficiently, as the time sunk into each individual game is really short.  Like this cute little crew;

Phiona Gage- Transparency, Lead Lined Coat

Witchling Thrall

Performer

Guild Hound

There is a lot of synergy to unpack there.  Phiona creates scheme markers with Transparency.  When a Scheme Marker is created, the Witchling Thrall gets a free attack.  The Guild Hound can declare charges for 1 AP near the scheme markers, and the Performer mercenary can blow up the scheme markers with Seduction and any a failed willpower duel from that ( ) will launch an attack from Phiona thanks to "Its Me You're Fighting".   

I'm not sure if it would be able to stand up to a good Ryle list, but it does feel like it would be pretty terrifying in a melee brawl in the center.  Especially once the free attacks start flowing, and the Performer starts turning scheme markers into debuffs.