Yokai Zero and Headhunter

[Joeguardsman]

I'd just like to confirm that I'm using the timing correctly on the Yokai Zero action in relation to the place and interact action.

I recently in a single activation killed a Terror Tot with a charge, then placed the head, used the zero action, reduced Flicker, placed due to the reduction and then used interact action to pick up the head.

I've been enjoying hiring in Yokai but definitely need to make sure that I'm doing things correctly.

[Tokapondora]

"After the value of the Poison or Flicker Condition on this model is lowered, if this model is still in play, this model may be placed within 3", not in terrain, after completing the current Action."

So alas.

[twibs]

But, you could use the built in trigger for "soul burn", flicker-place after charge and use the (0) for extra interact, but you would need a flicker +3 on the yokai to begin with.

[Ludvig]

Seems legit. You kill it and place the head as part of the action and trigger soul burn. After that you are allowed to place because you reduced your flicker and then you (0) to interact.

[Dante83]

Hmmm...I'm not sure if this works. The key is going to be the timing between placing the head marker and when the ability Ephemeral Warriors goes off.

 

The last FAQ states that head markers are placed after triggers and so it looks like both the head marker and the place happen at the same time; after the soul burn trigger resolves. In which case, I may be utterly blind, but I can't seem to find a definitive statement which declares the order that these resolve. Is it the acting players choice?

 

Unfortunately i I have nothing more definitive that that to add to the discussion, but I figured I'd share my thoughts in the hopes that someone much more knowledgeable than me could provide some clarity. 

[twibs]

While the flicker condition is lowered during the trigger, the actual place will only happen after the action, well after the head is placed.

[Dante83]

But as per the FAQ:

"52. In the headhunter strategy, when is the head marker placed?

It is placed after completely resolving the current action and any triggers it generated"

This seems to suggest that both effects happen after the current action is resolved (I.e - at the same time).

[twibs]

Okay, so both are resolved after the action. Since one player is controlling both of them (placing the head, flicker placing) I would say he get's to choose which is resolved first. 

[Dante83]

That's fine, and in my original post I stated that it may well be the case that the acting player gets to choose. 

 

However, I am personally unable to find anything in the rules to confirm that the acting player gets this choice (this is likely me being an idiot!!!), and so before I begin playing my Yokai this way, I was hoping that someone wiser than me might point me towards an actual rules passage which backs up the supposition that the acting player chooses the order.

[twibs]

Okay, upon re-reviewing your question it's quite valid. I also needed to double check the rules, but I think I have the necessary parts.

So, we know that the Ephemereal warrior is the ability of the Yokai.

If we look at the "Headhunter" strategy, it reads (the important parts): "the model which made the kill must place", therefore placing the head is ALSO an effect of the Yokai.

So, on page 51 in general timing we can see the order in which the effects/abilities are resolved:

1. Acting model
2. Defending model
3. First player models
4. Second player models.

Both of the effect happen at the time slot of '1' since they are both 'generated' by the Yokai.

So, this does not directly tell which of them happens first, but on page 32. we have a reference that I think is valid:

Upkeep, second paragraph: "In the unlikely event that the order in which multiple effect ending would affect the outcome, then the affected model's owning player determines the order in which they are resolved. If models from both players are affected, the first player's model will resolve their effects first."

It's important to remember that placing the head is Yokai's ability, not the model's which was killed.

[Dante83]

This was very helpful. Thanks

[twibs]

It just occurred to me that sometimes you may wish to resolve the flicker first, since you would get to place the head up ~7'' away. (First flicker within 3'', then place the head from that position). Esp if you don't have way to generate the (1)interact.

[Nikodemus]

Quote

place a 30mm Head Marker within 3" and LoS of the killed or sacrificed model

Hold your horses (or monkeys) Head is placed in relation to the model being killed, not the killer.

edit: or can Yokai place ENEMY models? Pretty rad if they can.

[twibs]

 No, you're correct. Jumping the gun here.😀

Edit: BUT, if the Yokai uses the last flicker on the attack the head will flicker into aether since there will be no longer valid attacker to place the head.

Some weird interactions here.

Edit 2: wait. Could Yokai provide his own Dig their graves by flickering out and dropping scheme via the "heavenly design"? I believe so.