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Runner

Sensei Yu as Leader

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Runner   

I want to ask about a very specific situation. It may have no sense but I am curious about the way rules work.

We play a 40 soulstone game so Henchman can be taken as the leader. I choose Sensei Yu as leader with Recalled Training upgrade attached, hire Hannah as a mercenary for her Arcane Reservoir +1, take someone else with Equality and whatever else to spend soulstones.

During one of my turns I have black joker, all aces and two deuce. I allow my enemy to score some VP during the turn to get a card from the Equality upgrade and it is another deuce.

Then I activate my Sensei Yu, discard his Recalled Training upgrade to get +flip on all fips for the remainder of this turn, move him to within 2" of an Ancient monument in order to get +2 Ca to all Ca actions and use Yu's Disciple ability. The only card in the deck that causes Yu not to reach TN is a single deuce and he has +flip. He casts the Disciple ability that makes him immediately take a (0) action belonging to a friendly leader in play. The only friendly leader (0) action is the Disciple.

Will Yu be able to take Disciple ability again this way? If no, why not? If yes, what will happen if each time deuce comes I take other card because of +flip and I do not cheat a card from my hand?

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solkan   
7 hours ago, Runner said:

I want to ask about a very specific situation. It may have no sense but I am curious about the way rules work.

We play a 40 soulstone game so Henchman can be taken as the leader. I choose Sensei Yu as leader with Recalled Training upgrade attached, hire Hannah as a mercenary for her Arcane Reservoir +1, take someone else with Equality and whatever else to spend soulstones.

During one of my turns I have black joker, all aces and two deuce. I allow my enemy to score some VP during the turn to get a card from the Equality upgrade and it is another deuce.

Then I activate my Sensei Yu, discard his Recalled Training upgrade to get +flip on all fips for the remainder of this turn, move him to within 2" of an Ancient monument in order to get +2 Ca to all Ca actions and use Yu's Disciple ability. The only card in the deck that causes Yu not to reach TN is a single deuce and he has +flip. He casts the Disciple ability that makes him immediately take a (0) action belonging to a friendly leader in play. The only friendly leader (0) action is the Disciple.

Will Yu be able to take Disciple ability again this way? If no, why not? If yes, what will happen if each time deuce comes I take other card because of +flip and I do not cheat a card from my hand?

Answering the question "What will happen if each time deuce comes I take other card because of :+fate and I do not cheat a card from my hand?"

The most likely outcome:  If you're playing in a tournament the other player calls a judge against you for slow play.  Unless you spend a minute to point out the loop to the other player and say "So I'm just going to reshuffle my deck and move on."

Because otherwise you're not conducting your activations in a timely manner.

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Ludvig   

Na, in that case he wouldn't be able to take any leader's (0) action which would be pretty silly. The big thing here is that it doean't say he may take the action so if you take this action with him a the leader he will never be allowed to stop taking it so the game never gets past that action and you will br playing for all eternity.

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Adran   

 

4 minutes ago, Runner said:

Actually my situation is silly in the first place. I wonder if it is allowed by rules to take second Disciple action as action caused by the first Disciple action...

yes. The rules do not prevent it. Why you want to do it is the question. 

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Ludvig   

Sounds like you would technically be able to do this. What would be your purpose in doing so?

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Ludvig   

Does his action even say "may" or is it just "take an action belonging to the leader" so you get stuck in a perpetual loop? No matter what it would be an instant warning for slow play in one of my tournaments. I wouldn't let you reshuffle the deck either because you're never given permission to skip flips juat because you know the outcome. The possibility to do this with Mei Feng's emissary resulted in errata to that card.

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Runner   
8 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Does his action even say "may" or is it just "take an action belonging to the leader" so you get stuck in a perpetual loop? No matter what it would be an instant warning for slow play in one of my tournaments. I wouldn't let you reshuffle the deck either because you're never given permission to skip flips juat because you know the outcome. The possibility to do this with Mei Feng's emissary resulted in errata to that card.

Here is Disciple ability wording:

(0) Disciple (Ca 6:tome / TN11:tome): This model immediately takes a (0) Action belonging to a friendly Leader in play. Any cards which this model would discard during the course of the Action are shuffled into its deck after completing the Action.

One of local players told me that Yu would not be able to use this ability within itself because of core zero ap action rule stating "A model may take only one of these “free” Actions per Activation". Is he correct?

Just in case I want to say that my question was theoretical and this situation shall not see tournament play and most likely non-tournament play too. I'm just curious about how rules work and if there is some rule that hadles loops.

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Runner   
3 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Na, in that case he wouldn't be able to take any leader's (0) action which would be pretty silly. The big thing here is that it doean't say may so if you take this actio with him a thr leader he will never be allowed to stop taking it so the game never gets past that action and you will br playing for all eternity.

Actually my situation is silly in the first place. I wonder if it is allowed by rules to take second Disciple action as action caused by the first Disciple action...

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Jinn   

Wouldn't the action not count as resolved until all of the triggers are completed? So the cards wouldn't return to the deck meaning you couldn't cycle forever. I may be misremembering and it might work differently to how a flurry or charge action, for example, aren't resolved until the actions they generate are resolved.

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Adran   
7 hours ago, Jinn said:

Wouldn't the action not count as resolved until all of the triggers are completed? So the cards wouldn't return to the deck meaning you couldn't cycle forever. I may be misremembering and it might work differently to how a flurry or charge action, for example, aren't resolved until the actions they generate are resolved.

Once sucess or failure is determined, the cards are discarded. (page 24). But you are right that any cards that Sensi yu flips during disciple actions after the first won't go into the discard pile, so it will reach the point when you have no cards to flip. I would rule that at his point you fail the action, as you haven't met the TN. 

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Ludvig   

I thought tve carda from any duel were discarded as soon as the duel was successful or failed, does it rely wait until the entire actoon is resolved?

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Adran   
19 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

I thought tve carda from any duel were discarded as soon as the duel was successful or failed, does it rely wait until the entire actoon is resolved?

They are normally discarded when you decide success/failure. I confused myself, and  now don't think that the cards used in a duel are discarded by Sensi yu, so don't actually matter for his disciple ability

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