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Aaron

July 2017 Errata

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18 minutes ago, Bakunin said:

I'll clarify I don't quite believe the whole Yasunori bit is too much,  Viktoria of Blood does about the same thing and isn't impossible to deal with. Something will die though.

The difference is that Viks of Ashes and Viks of Blood were specifically designed to do that. It's their master shtick. Yasunori on its own is fine, its only when it is combined with McCabe or, especially, Asame that interactions happen that are potentially NPE inducing.

With so many possible interactions in Malifaux expecting a game designer to see them all, even with extensive playtesting, is unreasonable. 

Also, the meta changes all the time. What isn't NPE inducing today might become that way upon release of the next book, for the same reason cited above. 

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57 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Yes, but you still have to win the duel for it to work, and you only get one attack. Plus, you have lots of work to do to get in a position to make it work that way.

I read up on McCabes stats and upgrades, along with Yasunori. Yes, the Yasunori model is strong, but not out of line with other models. It's also a very expensive model. It's damage triggers are really nothing more than Melee Expert. Armor, stubborn, and flight are all common. I've seen other models with the peek at your deck action. Kodoku is more or less an obey, which other models have. The only unique thing I see is the trigger "wrath of the heavens". To achieve the above example with glowing saber will require the right positioning, etc, over several activations, and then it's not even guaranteed to work. 

So to me, I do not think this combo is over the top. I hope it stays. 

Right, I was just providing another example of how McCabe improves Yasunori to answer your question.  Although you'll find more people who disagree with you regarding Yasunori's powerlevel than people who agree with you about Yasunori being fine.  Yasunori only saw general release like a month ago if I recall correctly.  So time will tell.

57 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Another thought to the errata. If something is too strong, instead of nurfing the stats, they should just increase the cost to hire it, reducing your other resources. Example: in WWII games your going to pay a LOT to field a Tiger tank. Pretty much nothing can penetrate its armor. It's way powerful and almost indestructible. However, it will take up over half your points in your army list leaving you with not much else. That's why you don't see many people using them. Their cost reflects their strength.

There's no perfect way to deal with balancing post release.  Balancing post release is absolutely necessary because playtesting isn't and can't be perfect at balancing new models.  Increasing the cost of a model is one way to do it.  Cuddling an ability is another.  All options have their pros and their cons.  And Wyrd won't be able to please everyone.  All in all, I think Wyrd handles the erratas very well.

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24 minutes ago, skoatz said:

There's no perfect way to deal with balancing post release.  Balancing post release is absolutely necessary because playtesting isn't and can't be perfect and balancing new models.  Increasing the cost of a model is one way to do it.  Cuddling an ability is another.  All options have their pros and their cons.  And Wyrd won't be able to please everyone.  All in all, I think Wyrd handles the erratas very well

I totally understand your point, and I can understand how most of you like this errata, though I disagree with it. Every other game I play is balanced almost solely by points, and they do not make major changes until new editions to keep from angering people who just spent hundreds on their products. Imagine if GW nurfed the Primaris Marines that they just released that thousands of people have invested hundreds of dollars in. It would cause a worldwide riot!

 If a model is too powerful for its cost, then maybe up the cost instead. Or, preferably, produce a model/ upgrade to defend against it, like the many abilities and upgrades already in the game (i.e. Counterspell aura, upgrades to ignore armor, etc.). If the mech rider summon and scheme marker placement is such an issue that can't wait till a new edition, then make an upgrade that can be taken for your model to prevent scheme marker placement or summoning within "x" inches of it. That would cure the problem for the people that complain about the mech rider, yet not anger the people who bought and play the mech rider. 

Other games that I play issue "errata" but it is more to clarify rules that are hard to understand, fix typos in the book, or omissions, etc, not to change the abilities of models. A good example is Bolt Action. The flamethrower rules in the first edition were a thorn in people's side. It evidently was "too powerful". So players  just knew in advance that they need to deal with the flamethrower first. Then, when 2nd edition came out, it was changed to everyone's liking. I like Bolt Action, but there are many rules that just irritate me. But that's the way it goes if I want to play that game until a new edition arrives. I could deal with the same in Malifaux rather than my models being nurfed every 6 months.

Another thought: someone told me that Malifaux is a huge tournament game and cutthroat competitive in that environment, and that's one of the reasons they do this errata. I've never done a tournament, I just play at the local shop with friends, like most people I know that do. If tournaments are the driving force behind this, then maybe Wyrd should focus on special tournament rules for those competitive players and leave the game alone for the rest of us.

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12 hours ago, -Loki- said:

No one is happy about Cuddles. Cuddles also get complained about faster than buffs are applauded because Cuddles destabilise the game faster than buffs, because a Cuddle will instantly alter peoples current playstyle, while a buff takes time for people to test and figure out.

However, dragging 'false advertising' into it is a bit absurd.

I dunno.. I'm pretty happy about the cuddles to my stuff. That being said, I already identified Practiced Production and Raptors as something on the short list of needed fixes and started planning different approaches to it months ago. Similarly, I've known that Wind Gamin did too much for their cost with their initial printing (even had people in my local meta thinking I was crazy for thinking that, until I showed them a couple things). They still do a lot, they just no longer completely deny killing schemes and let me bank 5" pushes for when stuff is set up later; now they die and a friendly gets an immediate push.

That said, my playstyle wasn't instantly altered because I was already starting to lean away from the combination as too good. Similar to when Colette's Prompt ability changed--I had already shifted my style so it was less of a shock when it became official. For other players who might not be paying the same kind of attention and keeping dialogs open with their TOs/Henchmen about power models/combinations, I can see why it feels like a sucker punch.

The Mech Rider change I wonder about, but I also don't know what I don't know about the motivation behind making it an emergency change. That being said, I know people who think that the push and summon is still over the top, even with needing to flip/cheat an 8 and have at least :tome:tome. I'll have to try it out a bit under the new rules to see if it's still something I have to find good reason(s) to not take.

I'm actually surprised that Myranda and Imbued Energies has not come up yet, considering that that combination is so potent that it restricts Arcanist beast potential and effectively lets me draw four cards in exchange for getting a model tailored to the scenario after the game is already started. That leads into why I don't mind the cuddles as much: it opens up possibilities for the future even as it tries to push over-the-curve things back into the curve.

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21 minutes ago, spooky_squirrel said:

I'm actually surprised that Myranda and Imbued Energies has not come up yet, considering that that combination is so potent that it restricts Arcanist beast potential and effectively lets me draw four cards in exchange for getting a model tailored to the scenario after the game is already started. That leads into why I don't mind the cuddles as much: it opens up possibilities for the future even as it tries to push over-the-curve things back into the curve.

Agreed.  I could see IE only trigger on Kill, not Sacrificed, and/or maybe only give 2 or 3 cards when it triggers.

24 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Every other game I play is balanced almost solely by points, and they do not make major changes until new editions to keep from angering people who just spent hundreds on their products. Imagine if GW nurfed the Primaris Marines that they just released that thousands of people have invested hundreds of dollars in. It would cause a worldwide riot!

[...]

Another thought: someone told me that Malifaux is a huge tournament game and cutthroat competitive in that environment, and that's one of the reasons they do this errata. I've never done a tournament, I just play at the local shop with friends, like most people I know that do. If tournaments are the driving force behind this, then maybe Wyrd should focus on special tournament rules for those competitive players and leave the game alone for the rest of us.

Thing is, we're talking about a model which has been released for years now and has always been on the stronger end of its points-value scale, explicitly because of its ability to reliably push and summon a 4ss Construct, both of which are strong effects on their own but together are fantastic.  The Primaris aren't exactly a good example to make since then we're discussing a game company which is willing to double the cost of models between editions, flat out remove models from the game, and sometimes not even bother ever releasing sculpts for things.

We kind of already do have a tournament ruleset, it's Gaining Grounds, and it changes up every year to try and reach a more and more balanced and varied game.  And has been mentioned before, if you and your gamer buddies don't want to play with the errata you don't have to, that's a choice you folks get to make exclusively.  The only time it'll be actually enforced is in a tournament, if you don't want to play with the errata for casual games that's a discussion to have with your opponents.

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22 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Another thought: someone told me that Malifaux is a huge tournament game and cutthroat competitive in that environment, and that's one of the reasons they do this errata. I've never done a tournament, I just play at the local shop with friends, like most people I know that do. If tournaments are the driving force behind this, then maybe Wyrd should focus on special tournament rules for those competitive players and leave the game alone for the rest of us.

The reason for this is quick/flexibility in list building and also the lack of dice.

There are a lot of aspect of the game that reduce randomness and this makes it the most competitive game currently out on the market. ( just  think of the rules that other games have)

This makes cuddling pigs so hard for me, it was not the activation control but the damage they caused, If your opponent had a model down to 1wound and wanted to guarantee it is dead (no flips) you walk up a pig and blow it up. That was the biggest NPE my group did no like about them.( and my luck with crows and rams).

 

PS: hope they make Rjoker 14 any suite and Bjoker just 0 no suite, and take out the damage and non-cheating aspect( the last random swingy game effect left)

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36 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Another thought: someone told me that Malifaux is a huge tournament game and cutthroat competitive in that environment, and that's one of the reasons they do this errata. I've never done a tournament, I just play at the local shop with friends, like most people I know that do. If tournaments are the driving force behind this, then maybe Wyrd should focus on special tournament rules for those competitive players and leave the game alone for the rest of us.

Then don't use the errata.  I think that accomplishes exactly what you're hoping for here.

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6 minutes ago, skoatz said:

Then don't use the errata.  I think that accomplishes exactly what you're hoping for here.

Problem is, no one playing against you will agree, so that's out of the question.

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3 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I totally understand your point, and I can understand how most of you like this errata, though I disagree with it. Every other game I play is balanced almost solely by points, and they do not make major changes until new editions to keep from angering people who just spent hundreds on their products. Imagine if GW nurfed the Primaris Marines that they just released that thousands of people have invested hundreds of dollars in. It would cause a worldwide riot!

 If a model is too powerful for its cost, then maybe up the cost instead. Or, preferably, produce a model/ upgrade to defend against it, like the many abilities and upgrades already in the game (i.e. Counterspell aura, upgrades to ignore armor, etc.). If the mech rider summon and scheme marker placement is such an issue that can't wait till a new edition, then make an upgrade that can be taken for your model to prevent scheme marker placement or summoning within "x" inches of it. That would cure the problem for the people that complain about the mech rider, yet not anger the people who bought and play the mech rider.

Other game systems use a different point scale. If you're playing on a 2000 point scale, bumping a 12 point model to 15 points is relatively small (less than 1% of the total hiring limit per model). If you're playing on a 200 point scale, a scaling of bumping something from 4 points to 5 has a larger impact on the total hiring limit, but bumping something from 16 to 17 does not. A single stone difference on a model in a 50 stone Malifaux game is 2% of your hiring resources.

Malifaux models don't have the same flexibility because the system doesn't have the same granularity. If a model (like the Wind Gamin) is better than other 4 stone models but not as good as a 5 stone one, it has to be one or the other and adjust for the one that it is in some way. In this case, it's a change to their dying mechanic that was giving it more utility than a 4 stone model should have, yet not making it quite as valuable as a 5 stone model.
If a model like the Mechanical Rider is bumped from 12 stones to 13 stones base, it falls into a very small circle that happens to include models like Nekima and Ashes and Dust. Mechanical Rider can seem over-the-curve, especially if played by a cagey Levi or Arcanist player, but it's not Nekima or A&D. It needs to survive until Turn 3 to really start being a problem; Nekima and A&D are doing the things that make them worth 13 stones from Turn 1 until they die. So if we compare Mech Rider to existing 13 stone models, it's not at that level. If we're wanting to readjust the whole scale, that's an edition-rolling change. So we have to look at what makes the Mech Rider better than its peers: its abilities.

The attack triggers by themselves are not over the curve. The trigger conditions have to be met for them to go off. The attack itself isn't all that frightening. So that's not an ability that really can be tweaked to bring the model closer to the curve. The Reactivate (0) is a Turn 5+ effect, so isn't going to be what comes up. Everything on the front of the card is the same as the other Riders. So that leaves the (0) for tweaking.
As @retnab mentioned, being able to push and summon a 4ss minion as a (0) is a powerful ability. It increases my activations, it gives me another significant model, and it gives me a choice of models that I can tailor for what I need. The cost of two wounds to the summoned model isn't even all that significant to me, because of what I can summon and why and what else I typically will have in my crew (especially as an Arcanist). I've summoned Fire and Ice Gamin to act as grenades. I've summoned Metal Gamin to do nothing but tie up a model and eat AP. I've summoned Steam Arachnids to reduce an opposing model's Df value in order to make the Mech Rider's attacks more likely to hit (and thus more likely to get me scheme markers and cards).

Malifaux has tried upgrades to fix shortcomings. That's why there's a bunch of 0-cost upgrades for models that were seen as lack-luster or too-far below the curve. It too runs into friction. Adding upgrades that would have to be taken to tech against an existing model that is over the curve (which costs an upgrade slot and possibly soulstones, as well as potentially making the model more vulnerable to certain other things) will certainly run into more friction; specifically why should players of factions A-D have to buy and use a situational upgrade on the off-chance that Faction E and F players might bring a specific model that is over-the-curve?

5 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Problem is, no one playing against you will agree, so that's out of the question.

There is probably a very good reason that they won't agree to not use the errata. They may be more interested in tournaments and competitive play, and thus want to get games in under the current rules and cards. They may see that there was a reason for the change and thus feel it necessary and feel that its enforcement is good for the game.
If you're playing "casual" games with models that are above the power curve, I would suggest that you're not actually looking to play casual games. You're looking to play informal, but cutthroat games. That may even be why people won't agree to not use the errata.

1 minute ago, Astrella said:

I'm not even seeing the issue really, does this errata prevent you from using the Mechanical Rider? It's still a fine model.

No, it doesn't. It just means that a mid-range or better moderate card is required, instead of just a moderate. The change to the scheme marker trigger is actually really nice, because it lets me distribute scheme markers better. The summon is still a powerful ability, especially with the stable of 4ss (non-puppet/non-totem) Constructs available. It's a strong enough ability where it restricts what our new Minion Constructs will have and/or cost.

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@Hot4Perdita I agree with you that playing without the errata is probably going to be tricky. You'd need to be good friends to do that.

I vastly prefer rebalancing during the editions, I hate it when models are problematic for years and years without anything happening. I don't think some sort of terror balance of releasing other OP stuff to handle the originally OP stuff will solve it. 

I wasn't aware the mech rider was a big problem currently, it used to be back when the schemes were different. Either way I doubt it went to unplayable just because it now needs a card that is in line with the rest of the summoners. It still summons without using any resources which is a pretty big thing in this game, most masters need some sort of marker and the right suit do get their summon through. You are reacting like it's completely unplayable now which just isn't true. I play guild and both Papa Loco, austringers and Sonnia took big hits to their playability in the last errata. I get why that happened and it forced me to change a few of my crew selections. That doesn't mean I never play them anymore, I still take them and roll with the changes. If you are only playing casual games and believe that your games don't need to be balanced (which is how I interpreted you saying that errata should only be for tournamnets) then I'm not sure why the mech rider getting worse is a big deal.

I think the pigs took a much harder beating and all they got was a 1 ss increase (granted it's a big percentage). Not only does it affect them but the pigapult too. I think most gremlin players would have preferred some other solution.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to be mad about this or anything, by all means go ahead. Just trying to offer some perspective.

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Since GG 18 is in the works, perhaps that's why the Rider was seen as an emergency fix? I wonder if some interaction with its scheme dropping was a pain in the new schemes, and tweaking its summon was something that they added since they were already changing the card.

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2 minutes ago, Bakunin said:

Since GG 18 is in the works, perhaps that's why the Rider was seen as an emergency fix? I wonder if some interaction with its scheme dropping was a pain in the new schemes, and tweaking its summon was something that they added since they were already changing the card.

That's one of those items I categorize under "I don't know what I don't know"

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True, but I like clues to possible future-proofing. A mechanical rider with a correctly costed summon might in future get more models to summon.

And regardless of whether or not the guardian errata (which lowered its cost and increased its weak damage on its better attack, and seemed like a clue to me) was future proofing or not, it was appreciated. It's now one of my favorite stompybots, instead of never quite making the list.

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25 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@Hot4Perdita I agree with you that playing without the errata is probably going to be tricky. You'd need to be good friends to do that.

I vastly prefer rebalancing during the editions, I hate it when models are problematic for years and years without anything happening. I don't think some sort of terror balance of releasing other OP stuff to handle the originally OP stuff will solve it. 

I wasn't aware the mech rider was a big problem currently, it used to be back when the schemes were different. Either way I doubt it went to unplayable just because it now needs a card that is in line with the rest of the summoners. It still summons without using any resources which is a pretty big thing in this game, most masters need some sort of marker and the right suit do get their summon through. You are reacting like it's completely unplayable now which just isn't true. I play guild and both Papa Loco, austringers and Sonnia took big hits to their playability in the last errata. I get why that happened and it forced me to change a few of my crew selections. That doesn't mean I never play them anymore, I still take them and roll with the changes. If you are only playing casual games and believe that your games don't need to be balanced (which is how I interpreted you saying that errata should only be for tournamnets) then I'm not sure why the mech rider getting worse is a big deal.

I think the pigs took a much harder beating and all they got was a 1 ss increase (granted it's a big percentage). Not only does it affect them but the pigapult too. I think most gremlin players would have preferred some other solution.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to be mad about this or anything, by all means go ahead. Just trying to offer some perspective.

Yes, I started this game with Guild as well (Perdita and Lady J). I discovered what errata was after paying well over retail to obtain a box of Austringers on eBay that seemed to be out of stock any and everywhere, just to get them to the table and being told they no longer had 18" range. 

So, this time, I learned my lesson, and carefully checked errata before my purchase of arcanist models. Then guess what, 2 days before I play them the first time, the most expensive one of the bunch gets nurfed. 

Anyway, my rant is over. I'm done talking about the errata. I'm sure you all will be glad for me to stop.  I guess I'll learn to play with what I've got, but I seriously doubt I'll be investing more in this game. I was excited to try McCabe next, but with the talk on here of how good he is probably makes him the next target. No reason to risk my money on him or other models that will just get changed.

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9 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Yes, I started this game with Guild as well (Perdita and Lady J). I discovered what errata was after paying well over retail to obtain a box of Austringers on eBay that seemed to be out of stock any and everywhere, just to get them to the table and being told they no longer had 18" range. 

So, this time, I learned my lesson, and carefully checked errata before my purchase of arcanist models. Then guess what, 2 days before I play them the first time, the most expensive one of the bunch gets nurfed. 

Anyway, my rant is over. I'm done talking about the errata. I'm sure you all will be glad for me to stop.  I guess I'll learn to play with what I've got, but I seriously doubt I'll be investing more in this game. I was excited to try McCabe next, but with the talk on here of how good he is probably makes him the next target. No reason to risk my money on him or other models that will just get changed.

I'm sorry but you sound like the models aren't legal to play after the errata. They are. They have been tweaked but people still use Austringers because they do a decent job, especially in headhunter IMHO. I know I do and I don't regret taking them. I just played a game with the Mech Rider and I still think its good.

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13 minutes ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Anyway, my rant is over. I'm done talking about the errata. I'm sure you all will be glad for me to stop.  I guess I'll learn to play with what I've got, but I seriously doubt I'll be investing more in this game. I was excited to try McCabe next, but with the talk on here of how good he is probably makes him the next target. No reason to risk my money on him or other models that will just get changed.

Well avoid the Ten Thunders McCabe + Terracotta Warrior infinite Sabres trick. My spider sense is telling me that's going to either get the erratta or FAQ bat next year.

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McCabe as a master will probably not see change, the terracotta warrior might but honestly I would just expect McCabes upgrades to become rare 1 and perhaps a line on the terracotta warrior about never exceeding rare limits. 

@Hot4Perdita No one is forced to respond if they don't like rants. I've ranted plenty of times on these forums so I don't mind. :)

I don't see why you feel cheated out of your money just because the rules changed. It was changed to a place where the playtesters felt it was still a good model. Austringers are still probably one of the best 6ss guild models and fulfil a number of jobs. They might still be the best even. They still ignore LoS at a range that is rather decent and a stat that is higher than most masters have, they just don't cover the entire board anymore. They still force brutal discards and can help you interact which are the two things that actually made them good. Seems they're even getting a buff in the form of a wave 5 addition. How many games have you played with austringers after they got changed to form your opinion that they are now useless?

Stuff that is likely to get changed is stuff that is causing people grief or have unintended interactions. It's usually not too hard to predict what that is even if some stuff that one might think should have been changed sometimes stays the same. McCabe and Terracotta warriors have an untinded interaction that playtesting missed. Most players will not even use that interaction because it's an obvious oversight and when it is fixed it will be by introducing a rare rating on his upgrades or something to make him work like he always worked, not by making McCabe useless.

I'm also kind of curious as to why you would be moving on to McCabe if you've only played arcanists for a few days. It takes time to learn to use a crew properly. Or maybe it was just the Mech rider?

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6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

McCabe as a master will probably not see change, the terracotta warrior might but honestly I would just expect McCabes upgrades to become rare 1 and perhaps a line on the terracotta warrior about never exceeding rare limits. 

@Hot4Perdita No one is forced to respond if they don't like rants. I've ranted plenty of times on these forums so I don't mind. :)

I don't see why you feel cheated out of your money just because the rules changed. It was changed to a place where the playtesters felt it was still a good model. Austringers are still probably one of the best 6ss guild models and fulfil a number of jobs. They might still be the best even. They still ignore LoS at a range that is rather decent and a stat that is higher than most masters have, they just don't cover the entire board anymore. They still force brutal discards and can help you interact which are the two things that actually made them good. Seems they're even getting a buff in the form of a wave 5 addition. How many games have you played with austringers after they got changed to form your opinion that they are now useless?

Stuff that is likely to get changed is stuff that is causing people grief or have unintended interactions. It's usually not too hard to predict what that is even if some stuff that one might think should have been changed sometimes stays the same. McCabe and Terracotta warriors have an untinded interaction that playtesting missed. Most players will not even use that interaction because it's an obvious oversight and when it is fixed it will be by introducing a rare rating on his upgrades or something to make him work like he always worked, not by making McCabe useless.

I'm also kind of curious as to why you would be moving on to McCabe if you've only played arcanists for a few days. It takes time to learn to use a crew properly. Or maybe it was just the Mech rider?

Not moving on. I started with guild, they are still my number one, but I wanted to try a new faction to expand into to reduce the chances of playing guild on guild, etc. I like having several factions in my games. I'm still going to keep playing Ramos. But I doubt I will ever collect the amount of models in arcanists like I have in the guild. I currently have  2 guild masters and roughly 30 other guild models painted up, plus a couple outcast mercenaries. I also have Sonia plus about 8 other guild models beside her box to paint up. Beyond that, I'd like to get McCabe, and maybe, just maybe Lucius to complete my guild collection. I like variety, plus I love to model and paint. I will buy and paint a figure just cause I like the way it looks. If I play it once and it sucks, then I'll retire it to the shelf for a display piece. I have a whole cabinet of model aircraft I have built and have taken to contests. I was a modeler well before I was a gamer.

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@Hot4Perdita Thanks for sharing. If you ever give Lucius a try I think you will be overjoyed with his errata. He used to have it really tough until he was boosted. He is and has always been my favourite because of his style.

I'd say any model deserves more than a single chance, sometimes they don't perform because the player isn't using them in the most efficient way or the scenario/opponent/supporting models were a really bad fit. The mech rider should definetly still be more than an expensive paper weight.

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11 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Imagine if GW nurfed the Primaris Marines that they just released that thousands of people have invested hundreds of dollars in. It would cause a worldwide riot!

GW didn't do this for almost 25 years, and it was really bad for the game. Now they've copped on and are doing it - since 8th ed. was released, point costs have been changed twice already! And some of those changes hit the same units twice ... :D

(Cult genestealers going down to 10 points from 18, and then shooting up to 15 again.)

If you're interested, check DE Razorwings, genestealers, AM conscripts and some other things which were considered broken after release and got cuddled almost immediately. So, yeah, using GW as an example for NOT changing points is a bad idea these days ... ;)

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15 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I totally understand your point, and I can understand how most of you like this errata, though I disagree with it. Every other game I play is balanced almost solely by points, and they do not make major changes until new editions to keep from angering people who just spent hundreds on their products. Imagine if GW nurfed the Primaris Marines that they just released that thousands of people have invested hundreds of dollars in. It would cause a worldwide riot!

 

I'm really sorry to break your bubble, but have you looked at this page?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rules-Errata 

Games workshop do issue errata on a  fairly reagular basis, although with no known schedule, they just appear as if by magic (or at least they used to, I've not followed since the end of warhammer where some books were errata'd before they were a month old, I'm looking at Skaven) 

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1 minute ago, Adran said:

I'm really sorry to break your bubble, but have you looked at this page?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Rules-Errata 

Games workshop do issue errata on a  fairly reagular basis, although with no known schedule, they just appear as if by magic (or at least they used to, I've not followed since the end of warhammer where some books were errata'd before they were a month old, I'm looking at Skaven) 

I mean they made flyers insanely good and after 2 months if you only have fliers you autolose the game :D.

Razorwing Flocks went from 8 to 14 points! Thats an ~80% increase! :P

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@KrazyIvan, what McCabby horrors have you encountered that make you focus on him so much? Sure he's one the of the best TT has to offer but he still lags behind a few powerhouse masters, even if you bring Yasu and the Warriors. Just a quick shout-out in defense of Yasu; giving Yasu half your shit will no doubt guarantee something will die, but he's not built to last a crew prodding away at him and at that point you've lost half your shit halfway across the field. And besides that, he's quite weak against armor, incorporeal and defensive triggers so it's not like he can pick just any model. Saying something is an NPE because it can alphastrike is really stretching the definition of NPE to "things I don't like". Also Sabres are nice but they're hardly all you want to do with McCabe - with Promises and Badge of Speed being things you can't exactly throw away you can get a whopping +1 sabre. And that only if you also bring the Emissary.

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Which is a lot better than it used to be. The thing that killed WFB I fell was the fact that Demons went 2 years with no Errata. You had to play Demons or an Army designed to counter them or you might as well have not bothered turning up to a tournament. It never really recovered.

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