Davos Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 I'm building my Levi Construct list and am wondering if Vanessa is worth picking up. I have no real interest in the Viks as a whole, but her construct synergy seems interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 I use her quite frequently in my crews with Lazarus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katadder Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 i frequently use her as an anchor anyway, card manipulation plus some decent ranged attacks are quite good. having command construct is just a nice addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatlatinspeakingguy Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 I played today against Levi with Vanessa. She performed ok from my perspective, although was an easy target for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 At 8 ss I'd rather hire Sue, Yin or cough up the 9 for Monty or Mad Dog tbh, but if you want more Wp-based attacks, then why not? She also fits nicely into an Abomination-spam crew to Obey that Deso Engine into an extra Walk. Her gun is great, her construct-obey is situationally useful, her Wp 7 is amazing, but at Df 5 and no other defensive tech she will suffer. Then again, Ca 7 with trigger to draw a card is something that Levi loves. So, maybe against Ressers? On a side note, you never need Vanessa with the Viks unless playing for fluff (aside from a corner case where she gets Sisters in Fury, some (0) buffs from her older sisters and then surprise-chops someone with her Ml 5 min 4 Ancestral Blade). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I think her ability to look at top 3 cards and then command a construct can be tasty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I'm always sad that Arcanists can't take her. She seems like more of an Arcanist than most of the actual members of that faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 8 hours ago, Seadhna said: On a side note, you never need Vanessa with the Viks unless playing for fluff (aside from a corner case where she gets Sisters in Fury, some (0) buffs from her older sisters and then surprise-chops someone with her Ml 5 min 4 Ancestral Blade). Why do you dislike Vanessa with Viks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadhna Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Zebo said: Why do you dislike Vanessa with Viks? Malifaux Child and Librarian are more optimal choices for healing, and on her own Vanessa doesn't provide enough threat to divert your opponent's attention from the Viks duo. Her damage track without any extra AP is simply meh: Sue puts out way more hurt and has other utility as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so_diogenes Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 19 minutes ago, Seadhna said: Sue puts out way more hurt the puns continue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted July 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 In the comparison, I do like Sue more - he winds up in almost every list I play, but Vanessa seems cool. And the card manipulation seems handy, along with the obey. Thin I'll grab her, if only cause I have instore credit at the local, I'm sure I'll be able to find a use for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Davos said: In the comparison, I do like Sue more - he winds up in almost every list I play, but Vanessa seems cool. And the card manipulation seems handy, along with the obey. Thin I'll grab her, if only cause I have instore credit at the local, I'm sure I'll be able to find a use for her. Being able to setup your construct command flip, their attack flip, and their first damage flip by placing the cards in any order can be powerful. I did this with Lazarus once to trigger the Red Joker on damage flip. That was 9 damage on target plus double blast damage of 6. Very demoralizing to your opponent. Plus her 9 Ca when on the centerline for her staff is pretty powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos Posted July 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 That's basically my thinking. Seems like a good utility piece at the very least. If facing something with low Willpower, see gets selected over Sue. That being said, Sue is still one of my favorite models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 3 hours ago, spect_spidey said: Being able to setup your construct command flip, their attack flip, and their first damage flip by placing the cards in any order can be powerful. I did this with Lazarus once to trigger the Red Joker on damage flip. That was 9 damage on target plus double blast damage of 6. Very demoralizing to your opponent. Plus her 9 Ca when on the centerline for her staff is pretty powerful. Red Joker isn't quite that good. Any rules that refer to damage level (weak/moderate/severe), such as blasting, consider Red Joker to be a Severe card. Ie. its blast damage gets downgraded to moderate, which for Lazarus is 3. This is evident in FAQ Q#34 You'd have dealt 9 wounds to target and 3 to blasted models. https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux-faq-errata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 But wouldn't a double blast allow you to place it on the same place twice? If so, it would be 6 damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 No, only affected for de blast once, no cares how many blasts you put on the same target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Zebo said: No, only affected for de blast once, no cares how many blasts you put on the same target. Well that sucks and has been played wrong by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebo Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 Anyway, dmg 9 shot and 2 x dmg 3 blasts is no joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 16 hours ago, Zebo said: No, only affected for de blast once, no cares how many blasts you put on the same target. Where is this rule located? After reading the responses here, I went back to my rulebook and reread the blast rules. It doesn't say that a model can only be effected by one blast. It just says that the blast markers can't overlap. So if I place each blast where they partially cover the same model, that would allow them to take 3 damage twice. I want to make sure I am playing correctly since I am teaching my wife the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, spect_spidey said: Where is this rule located? After reading the responses here, I went back to my rulebook and reread the blast rules. It doesn't say that a model can only be effected by one blast. It just says that the blast markers can't overlap. So if I place each blast where they partially cover the same model, that would allow them to take 3 damage twice. I want to make sure I am playing correctly since I am teaching my wife the game. Page 58 and 59 of the manual Some effects (usually damage) contain a blast symbol (b). This represents an Attack that affects every model within an area, rather than just a single model; such as dynamite, a burst of flame, or an outburst of emotional turmoil the likes of which would turn an asylum orderly’s hair green. A blast is represented by a round 50mm base. A blast is placed by the Attacker so that it is touching the target’s base, but not overlapping it. If multiple blasts are generated (such as bb), each blast must be placed so that it is touching, but not overlapping, at least one other Blast Marker. Blasts may be placed into areas the Attacking model did not have LoS to.All models whose bases are touched or overlapped by one or more Blast Markers are affected, unless the model is more than 3” above or below the blast’s target. Any models touched or overlapped by the blast are affected. In situations where the order that models suffer damage matters, the Attacker may determine the order in which the affected models resolve the blast effects. If a blast is part of a damage flip (which is usually the case) place one Blast Marker for each blast symbol (b) in the Damage Severity flipped. The blast deals diminished damage to models who aren’t the original target. The damage dealt by a blast from a damage flip is one step lower than the damage flipped for the initial blast. An Attack with a 2/3b/4b that deals Moderate damage, for instance, would place one Blast Marker (due to the one b on the Moderate damage), and deal 3 damage to the original target, and 2 damage to each other model within the blast. It is important to note that the original target does not take damage twice from the Attack. The Blast is placed, and then all models suffer damage as noted above. Remember, the Red Joker’s damage is stepped down to Moderate (not Severe) damage. Bolded the points which show it There is 1 "blast", it all happens at the same time. You don't resolve 1 marker then the next marker. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, Adran said: Page 58 and 59 of the manual Some effects (usually damage) contain a blast symbol (b). This represents an Attack that affects every model within an area, rather than just a single model; such as dynamite, a burst of flame, or an outburst of emotional turmoil the likes of which would turn an asylum orderly’s hair green. A blast is represented by a round 50mm base. A blast is placed by the Attacker so that it is touching the target’s base, but not overlapping it. If multiple blasts are generated (such as bb), each blast must be placed so that it is touching, but not overlapping, at least one other Blast Marker. Blasts may be placed into areas the Attacking model did not have LoS to.All models whose bases are touched or overlapped by one or more Blast Markers are affected, unless the model is more than 3” above or below the blast’s target. Any models touched or overlapped by the blast are affected. In situations where the order that models suffer damage matters, the Attacker may determine the order in which the affected models resolve the blast effects. If a blast is part of a damage flip (which is usually the case) place one Blast Marker for each blast symbol (b) in the Damage Severity flipped. The blast deals diminished damage to models who aren’t the original target. The damage dealt by a blast from a damage flip is one step lower than the damage flipped for the initial blast. An Attack with a 2/3b/4b that deals Moderate damage, for instance, would place one Blast Marker (due to the one b on the Moderate damage), and deal 3 damage to the original target, and 2 damage to each other model within the blast. It is important to note that the original target does not take damage twice from the Attack. The Blast is placed, and then all models suffer damage as noted above. Remember, the Red Joker’s damage is stepped down to Moderate (not Severe) damage. Bolded the points which show it There is 1 "blast", it all happens at the same time. You don't resolve 1 marker then the next marker. I read that. But it doesn't say that a model cannot take damage from two blast markers at the same time if it wasn't the original target of the attack. It states "If multiple blasts are generated (such as bb), each blast must be placed so that it is touching, but not overlapping, at least one other Blast Marker." It also specifies the following "It is important to note that the original target does not take damage twice from the Attack." The keywords in my opinion being original target. It does not say that any other model cannot be hit by two separate blast markers and take damage from both. I am not trying to be argumentative, I just want to play the game correctly. What you are saying about only taking damage once may be rules as intended, but it is not rules as written. This is why I asked where it was stated. I wasn't sure if I might have missed it in a FAQ or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmantra Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, spect_spidey said: What you are saying about only taking damage once may be rules as intended, but it is not rules as written. It's rules as written. The rules say that if you are "touched or overlapped by one or more Blast Markers" then you are affected. It goes on to describe the effects of a blast marker as dealing damage one step down from the flipped damage value. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spect_spidey Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 It says they are affected and dealing damage one step down. It doesn't say a non-target model can only take damage from one blast during an attack. It does specifically state that the original target doesn't take damage twice from the attack. It doesn't say the same for any models affected by the blast markers. If what you are saying is the intention of the rules, then I believe they could clear it up by using an example that includes 2 blasts and a single model that the blasts would overlap on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 You are right an example for 2 blast markers would make it more obvious, but the phrase 1 or more markers can only mean that it doesn't matter how many markers touch/overlap you. Since you place all the markers, work out the affected models and then deal damage. The model under 2 markers isn't doubly affected. Thats the best proof I give in the rules. Talking about the original target is to show that it doesn't take damage from the blast, it only takes the original damage. Nowhere in the rules does it talk about resolving each blast marker seperatly. And if you did, why would it say if you were covered by 1 or more markers you are affected. Its not the greatest proof, but it is following the rules as they are written. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard matthews Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Adran said: All models whose bases are touched or overlapped by one or more Blast Markers are affected, I agree with adran the wording of 1 or more is crucial here it would take the damage only once even if it were hit by multiple blasts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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