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Is collette still strong enough?


Sanik

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Hi, I just started to play malifaux about 3 month ago.. I have played infinity forms while, and when I started, I asked who is the strongest master in arcanist and it was between sandeep and Colette. 

 

I picked Sandeep, but I think it is about time for me to expend, and was gonna go buy dark carnival... Then realized that Colette is doing not so hot according to the logfaux.

 

is Colette still strong enough for me to buy dark carnival? Would I regret it? Is she(he?) better than Sandeep? 

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No one is better than Sandeep, he is borderline broken and/or new enough that a lot of players haven't figured put how to deal. ;)

Collette is still strong, they just removed a very boring interaction with prompt making her an uninspiring spambot instead of a real master. Most masters who grant ap have restictions about not doing it on the same model.

She still hands out ap like it was candy through prompt and all together now combined with (0) interacts.

Some thoughts on loxfaux from a current thread on the neverborn side: 

(I tried to link, not sure if it's showing properly)

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I still really like Colette and will play her pretty often. However in a tournament setting until they fix Sandeep, the only master I would play over him is probably Marcus in Stake a Claim or Collect the Bounty. 

That being said, Colette can do a lot of fun things and still has plenty of play if the scheme pool focuses on heavy interact actions. There's nothing wrong with her but as Ludvig says, Sandeep is just a bit over the top enough to make me go towards him in almost every tournament game lately

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2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

(I tried to link, not sure if it's showing properly)

Doesn't show up for me. But I'm guessing you meant this thread:

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/129043-nb-lucius-on-logfaux-what-gives/

There's some reasonable posts as to why you should take logfaux (or anything like it) with more than a grain of salt before you read too much into its data.

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That's the one Niko. The new forums seem to not agree with my phone.

She's especially nice in headhunter since you can push someone onto the head and block it off after you kill an enemy. Not sure if Sandeep owns that strategy too, can't remember all his tricks.

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2 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

That's the one Niko. The new forums seem to not agree with my phone.

She's especially nice in headhunter since you can push someone onto the head and block it off after you kill an enemy. Not sure if Sandeep owns that strategy too, can't remember all his tricks.

He can have a friendly academic or a minion push and interact as their (0) if they get the right suit. 

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Colette is still plenty strong, from personal experience. You have to be a little more crafty with her, as there are more things now that deal non-reduceable damage as a way to get around her defensive triggers, but it's much the same as paying attention to what ignores armor with the coryphee. With the change to Prompt, yes, you have to figure oout how to play her as more than 3 extra AP to your biggest beater, but I argue it's always been more fun to play away from that avenue anyway.

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Thanks for the answers guys...

 

so so if the log faux isn't as... Accurate(?) as other netdecking sites, what are the actual "op" masters? Is Sandeep "that good?"

 

*starting to realize all the wins I had wasn't because I was a good player, but because my team was op... *sadface

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Colette is a strong master, but fragile against certain opponents (which have increased in number recently with newer releases, as others have noted above) and she relies heavily on scheme-yness and misdirection.  This can in certain pools be problematic.  But overall she is fun and competitive.

Sandeep is a different beast in that he is probably the single best toolbox master in the game at the moment, not only is he able to function in most scheme/strat pools but he is strong enough to be one of the 2-3 best masters in Arcanists for those pools.  He practically does not have a significant weaknesses either in opposition crew composition or the scheme/strat pool or the table/terrain layout - he is 10/10 flexibility in a game which rewards it; he can also both do some heavy lifting in terms of damage or schemes and just as easily buff allies to allow them more damage or better scheming - so make it 11/10 flexibility.

 

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5 hours ago, Sanik said:

Thanks for the answers guys...

so so if the log faux isn't as... Accurate(?) as other netdecking sites, what are the actual "op" masters? Is Sandeep "that good?"

*starting to realize all the wins I had wasn't because I was a good player, but because my team was op... *sadface

I'm not sure how big the discrepancy is between top and bottom masters but player skills is always the deciding factor. I've seen people bring a tier one master and get completely destroyed by someone playing a lowly rated master. Part of it is probably also how easy they are to grasp when you first start the game.

I'm not saying logfaux is worse than other auch sites, I don't know the other ones. I'm just saying thst from a statistical standpoint there's way to little data to balance the game entirely based on it. For example guild McMourning has a higher win percentage than resser McMourning and I think every player agrees that resser McMourning is a lot stronger. 

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Malifaux is a very hard game to "netdeck" due to the nature of crew construction and variety of games/terrain and the alternating activation's requiring a lot of adapatableness in your plan. 

Sandeep is a strong master with a low learning curve and few obvious weaknesses. 

Colette is a strong master, who will play a different game to Sandeep. In some games she is better than him, in others he is better than her. 

(My default Arcanist master when I want to put out a top performance is Marcus, but other peoples views differ. There isn't a huge power level difference between any of our 8 masters once you know what you are doing with them. I struggle with Mei Feng and Ironsides for example, but I know others who don't. )

If you want the option to change what you play, then get Colette, (or another master). You will probably find overall your results will improve just by learning a different way to play, although when you start using Colette you will probably see a drop off in your results until you learn what she does to at least the same level as you have learnt Sandeep

 

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10 hours ago, H4ml3t said:

Aww, thanks! Spreading the Showgirl love!

OP, I will add that one thing Colette does similarly/arguably better than Sandeep is bring whatever models she wants to get the job done. Sandeep does this by imoroving his crew by giving them access to his actions via beacon, but he is more preferential to his Academics. Whereas Colette improves her crew by giving them more AP and free movement. She likes Showgirls, but as I mention in the mentioned tactica, she really only needs 1-2 (Cassandra and maybe a Performer) though you can do more with Carlos/Coryphee. I concur with those above that she's better in certain pools than others, but if you want maximum flexibility in crew/scheme selection, Colette's your gal.

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12 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Aww, thanks! Spreading the Showgirl love!

OP, I will add that one thing Colette does similarly/arguably better than Sandeep is bring whatever models she wants to get the job done. Sandeep does this by imoroving his crew by giving them access to his actions via beacon, but he is more preferential to his Academics. Whereas Colette improves her crew by giving them more AP and free movement. She likes Showgirls, but as I mention in the mentioned tactica, she really only needs 1-2 (Cassandra and maybe a Performer) though you can do more with Carlos/Coryphee. I concur with those above that she's better in certain pools than others, but if you want maximum flexibility in crew/scheme selection, Colette's your gal.

I did read your tactica- wonderful job! And frankly that was the reason why I started to reignited(?) my interest in "MR COOPER" .. Well I have a strange rule - that I only play male avatars in any games, so if I were gonna play this master, I am really "committed" :P (please don't call me sexist) 

 

what do you think her biggest weakness? Because where I play, we only do "one matster tournament." So we have to register which master we are gonna play for the entire tournament and most of us talk about the game intents of "masters" instead of "factions"

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sanik said:

I did read your tactica- wonderful job! And frankly that was the reason why I started to reignited(?) my interest in "MR COOPER" .. Well I have a strange rule - that I only play male avatars in any games, so if I were gonna play this master, I am really "committed" :P (please don't call me sexist) 

 

what do you think her biggest weakness? Because where I play, we only do "one matster tournament." So we have to register which master we are gonna play for the entire tournament and most of us talk about the game intents of "masters" instead of "factions"

 

 

Thank you so much! I'm happy to have inspired you to pick up Colette/Cooper again (certainly not going to call you sexist for making a personal choice and sticking to it. Maybe if you derided *other* people for playing female masters [or do you mean male models in general, for clarification?])

Hmmm, I've heard tell of single master tourneys, but have yet to play in one myself. Do you know the Strats and/or schemes before your show up to offset the less flexible style?

As far as Colette's biggest weakness in general, I personally would say it's a player who only sees her as a Prompt stick. It's generally her most used action, yes, but knowing when to use the others to maximum effect is what makes her crafty.

As far as biggest weakness that can be capitalized upon by opponents, things that sidestep/ignore her defensive triggers, either straight out say so, or do by other wording (like "cannot be reduced"), or by not targeting her (:blast & :pulse). So, Joss' axe, Executioners on the first, Zipp and similar on the second, and blast masters on the third. All of which can be avoided with teleportation and using the terrain/other models to your adcantage.

I've never had conditions be a problem, I tend to teleport her away from whatever I know that has paralyze and other annoyances.

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6 hours ago, Sanik said:

 Because where I play, we only do "one matster tournament." So we have to register which master we are gonna play for the entire tournament and most of us talk about the game intents of "masters" instead of "factions"

 

Holy shit. That sounds like a major buzzkill for a lot of masters. Why did you start doing that?

I think Collette can do any pool. She can use prompt on the excellent beaters in the faction when you need to kill and she's naturally amazing at marker schemes and strats. Malifaux raptors hrlp out a lot in interference and her doves should be able to do a similar job of engaging stuff so it doesn't count.

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7 hours ago, Sanik said:

what do you think her biggest weakness? Because where I play, we only do "one matster tournament." So we have to register which master we are gonna play for the entire tournament and most of us talk about the game intents of "masters" instead of "factions"

Colette is a master who pushes her crew to 11. As such she is a good generalist master to take in single master events, because a lot of the power to her lists are the models you add to her. Possibly her biggest issue is when she doesn't have a crew, but even then, she is not bad. She doesn't have a glaring weakness to exploit in a way someone like McMorning, or Hoffman can have. 

I'll happily play in single master events, but they aren't as good for long term play as a single faction events due to the ability to counter some masters. I view single master events more as beginner events because you don't feel that you have handicapped yourself by not buying more masters. 

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4 hours ago, Adran said:

Possibly her biggest issue is when she doesn't have a crew, but even then, she is not bad.

I disagree, I think she is pretty terrible when alone. She can't hit for shit and is very slow unless the board has already been seeded with scheme markers by other, faster models.

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14 hours ago, Sanik said:

 

 

what do you think her biggest weakness? Because where I play, we only do "one matster tournament." So we have to register which master we are gonna play for the entire tournament and most of us talk about the game intents of "masters" instead of "factions"

 

 

Fixed master tournaments are fun everyone once in a while but they lean towards generalist masters which Colette is decidedly not. If that's the case you may find that you struggle with her. I would highly suggest that your play group go to fixed faction over fixed master tournaments as it takes away some of the essence of the flexibility Malifaux is based around. 

I tend to take Colette when the schemes are such as headhunter, squatters rights, Guard the stash. I don't take her for reckoning, collect the bounty, interference as our other masters handle those much much better. 

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1 hour ago, Bengt said:

I disagree, I think she is pretty terrible when alone. She can't hit for shit and is very slow unless the board has already been seeded with scheme markers by other, faster models.

I've had her kill Marcus and a cerberus over 2 activations once I'd lost everything else. There were several scheme markers about, but she wasn't complelty helpless.She can do about as much damage as marcus if he doesn't have the +damage upgrade thanks to the high attack value she was generating, (and upgrades)

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10 hours ago, Adran said:

I've had her kill Marcus and a cerberus over 2 activations once I'd lost everything else. There were several scheme markers about, but she wasn't complelty helpless.She can do about as much damage as marcus if he doesn't have the +damage upgrade thanks to the high attack value she was generating, (and upgrades)

That's pretty impressive. I've never had her do anything on her own but deny my opponent Assassinate points and then get the Entourage points at the end of the game just cause she's so damn slippery and most times you don't need those excess Scheme markers after a while. 

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11 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Fixed master tournaments are fun everyone once in a while but they lean towards generalist masters which Colette is decidedly not. If that's the case you may find that you struggle with her. I would highly suggest that your play group go to fixed faction over fixed master tournaments as it takes away some of the essence of the flexibility Malifaux is based around. 

I tend to take Colette when the schemes are such as headhunter, squatters rights, Guard the stash. I don't take her for reckoning, collect the bounty, interference as our other masters handle those much much better. 

Well, it is our henchmen's call, and nobody in my venue has any issues lol - and I personally didnt have any issue either, because I took it as "Master is your avatar" approach as well

 

or maybe because that's how I was taught to begin with XD

19 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Holy shit. That sounds like a major buzzkill for a lot of masters. Why did you start doing that?

I think Collette can do any pool. She can use prompt on the excellent beaters in the faction when you need to kill and she's naturally amazing at marker schemes and strats. Malifaux raptors hrlp out a lot in interference and her doves should be able to do a similar job of engaging stuff so it doesn't count.

It's actually more fun(?) than you think it would be, and suprisingly, I think we have pretty much all masters and no more than 2 or 3 duplicates of masters in our venue. we have about 10 - 15 ppl show up on every tourneys (we usually do bi-weekly) and for last 3 months I started to go, I havn't met anyone who plays sandeep at tourney (which was surprising, given the fact that Sandeep is regarded as one of tier 1 master). We do have like 3 liliths and 2 dreamers tho XD oh The Neverborn...

22 hours ago, Boomstick said:

 

Thank you so much! I'm happy to have inspired you to pick up Colette/Cooper again (certainly not going to call you sexist for making a personal choice and sticking to it. Maybe if you derided *other* people for playing female masters [or do you mean male models in general, for clarification?])

Hmmm, I've heard tell of single master tourneys, but have yet to play in one myself. Do you know the Strats and/or schemes before your show up to offset the less flexible style?

As far as Colette's biggest weakness in general, I personally would say it's a player who only sees her as a Prompt stick. It's generally her most used action, yes, but knowing when to use the others to maximum effect is what makes her crafty.

As far as biggest weakness that can be capitalized upon by opponents, things that sidestep/ignore her defensive triggers, either straight out say so, or do by other wording (like "cannot be reduced"), or by not targeting her (:blast & :pulse). So, Joss' axe, Executioners on the first, Zipp and similar on the second, and blast masters on the third. All of which can be avoided with teleportation and using the terrain/other models to your adcantage.

I've never had conditions be a problem, I tend to teleport her away from whatever I know that has paralyze and other annoyances.

It's more of my personal preference I think. Like I said earlier, I have this wired mentality to project myself into Master of the game as...well me- as my girl firned put it, I am too F-ing egotistic XD Which is why my Lituent in the Infinity is always...well Achillis

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47 minutes ago, Sanik said:

Well, it is our henchmen's call, and nobody in my venue has any issues lol - and I personally didnt have any issue either, because I took it as "Master is your avatar" approach as well

 

or maybe because that's how I was taught to begin with XD

It's actually more fun(?) than you think it would be, and suprisingly, I think we have pretty much all masters and no more than 2 or 3 duplicates of masters in our venue. we have about 10 - 15 ppl show up on every tourneys (we usually do bi-weekly) and for last 3 months I started to go, I havn't met anyone who plays sandeep at tourney (which was surprising, given the fact that Sandeep is regarded as one of tier 1 master). We do have like 3 liliths and 2 dreamers tho XD oh The Neverborn...

 

Its definitely a problem with Arcanists I feel like. We have a faction full of niche masters and very few generalists. Marcus is a fantastic choice as is sandeep. Colette is a good choice too but it isn't as strong as either of those. 

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