Mandatory new book wild speculation thread.

[santaclaws01]

Let the speculation commence!

[tomjoad]

Speculation: The new models will mostly be blah and nobody will care about them, but then in 4-6 months every will pick up on exactly one of them and begin working on proxies. The official model won't be released until June 2018. The new upgrades will be amazing, however, and new options will be fun and flavorful for all master. This will be tempered by the upgrade cards not arriving in Europe until March 2019, so all anybody will do is be angry and complain about it.

[Tokapondora]

I just hope the Brewmaster gets a more general upgrade instead of something poison related again like with the Emissary. His AP is infinitely better spent handing out Swills and doing the odd Obey or Pick Your Poison. If it did something with poison it would need to give the Brewmaster both a way to hand out and make use out of poison and it'd need to be good, because as it is now there's nothing using or giving poison enough that you'd want to give up Obeys and Swills for it. He's one of the current weakest masters in the game. This could be a great chance to give him something. I'd be happy with a  for his Obey and maybe a fun new trigger on Swill. Actually improving what he does now. 

All in all though, it's too early to be able to tell or guess anything but too late to really ramp up the hype machine with speculation. Not much to really say or discuss.

[Pyrflamme]

Models are talked to death by now (though I am still carrying a torch for an enemy TN bump on Lady G's pull-in), so I suppose it's about the upgrades. As Toka says, we're in that narrow band where we can't precisely be sure where they might go with things, but it'll be out rather soon - six weeks until people start opening books and snapping pictures of the upgrades.

The Lady Justice upgrade honestly didn't hit any of the points I would have expected, so I'm not sure how much of a predictor extant abilities on the Masters are. Casual musing for at least one of the upgrades would probably go something like this:

Misaki: Make Thunder and Downburst more compelling uses of AP. I think I've used Downburst precisely once. Triggers would do well here. Another interesting possibility would be turning Thunder into a Sh attack.

Brewmaster: The Mask on Obey as above sounds pretty good. Another possibility is a built-in defensive trigger that gives Poison after resolving, on top of his native trigger and Misdirection. At the very least it'd give some more credence to his poison gameplay without sacrificing AP - although you'd still have to make a choice between that and Misdirection.

Mei: I'd actually be excited for Diving Charge on an upgrade. Building "combo Mei" is a little tempered by the implied positioning requirements on her other-upgrade triggers, and getting into a group can be complicated if your opponent ties you up earlier. Diving Charge helps both those things. A +on Ml attacks, possibly the same upgrade, would also help with that - chain into Jackhammer Kick then run up that Armor.

Lynch: Whoo. His current selection of upgrades is already pretty darn powerful, and I struggle to think of what new stuff might be brought to his kit. It might be interesting to have a trigger to turn enemy living Brillianced models into Depleted, although having it be on-kill seems a little weird.

Yan Lo: Highly uncertain, although something that gives bonuses to Retainers - complimenting Relinquary's Ancestor support - seems like it could be fun. to Df aura, perhaps? Something else on top.

Shenlong: Likewise uncertain. Perhaps a defensive trigger that could hand out Poison or Burning?

McCabe: Highly depends on whether or not they decide to make one or both of the upgrades new Equipment. A fancy handgun could be a way to go, and on the defensive side, an invisibility potion/cloak would be a neat addition.

Asami: I have had zero chance to play her since a couple of my Oni went missing in a move just as I was finishing her box. No clue here.

 

 

 

 

[tomjoad]

Now that they are so open to errata on existing cards (which I will restate, I think is a terrible idea that could ruin the game), I would say there's essentially no chance that something like a  being added to Brewie's Obey or Misaki's attack gaining Sh. If they think those changes are appropriate, they would just make them.

Some bonus to Yan Lo's Retainers seems cool, though, since he really doesn't have a lot of synergy with them now. I also like the idea of a potion-type thing for McCabe; he can toss it to a buddy, but it has to be used up (discarded) to get the effect from it. It would have to be pretty good to displace the extant goodies he can pass around, but I like the idea.

I have played a fair amount of Asami and, honestly, I'm not sure what she could get either. I wouldn't mind if the new masters didn't get new upgrades, tbh. 

[Tokapondora]

Asami we know is getting a Conflux upgrade, so I'm guessing she won't get a personal upgrade on top of that. I hope she gets something to become just a little less card reliant. Going full CSI on what we have... 

There doesn't seem to be the space to give the Emissary the Oni characteristic... 

Then we have "Oni Model", "Scheme" and "At Least 1"", which I can only hope turns your scheme markers into flicker somehow. Would let you get some more use out of Onis that have flickered out. Dimensional instability or something. It doesn't end in "on:" where the gap is, which the action below does, making me fairly confident this is an ability so whatever it is it's probably passive. Doesn't really look like it though since the following action already says...

"...Action", range 8, and has the words "Half Of" and "...rease", which I'm gonna assume is either increase or decrease, which would have to be flicker. It most logically seems like giving up half an Oni's health for more Flicker? Making them perhaps a bit more summon-y and a bit less cruisemissile-y.

[santaclaws01]

4 hours ago, Tokapondora said:

Asami we know is getting a Conflux upgrade, so I'm guessing she won't get a personal upgrade on top of that. I hope she gets something to become just a little less card reliant. Going full CSI on what we have... 

There doesn't seem to be the space to give the Emissary the Oni characteristic... 

Then we have "Oni Model", "Scheme" and "At Least 1"", which I can only hope turns your scheme markers into flicker somehow. Would let you get some more use out of Onis that have flickered out. Dimensional instability or something. It doesn't end in "on:" where the gap is, which the action below does, making me fairly confident this is an ability so whatever it is it's probably passive. Doesn't really look like it though since the following action already says...

"...Action", range 8, and has the words "Half Of" and "...rease", which I'm gonna assume is either increase or decrease, which would have to be flicker. It most logically seems like giving up half an Oni's health for more Flicker? Making them perhaps a bit more summon-y and a bit less cruisemissile-y.

I would assume the confluxes don't count as an upgrade for the masters.

Also, I think that second thing is an action to reduce a models' wds by half to give them flicker +1. There's not many things that half of could apply to, and giving Asami another way to increase flicker at some cost to either her or the model seems like a likely path to take. It would make Jorogumo summoning less of a crapshot if you didn't have a lot of markers to boost their flicker.

[Patzer]

Frankly, I have no idea what to expect. And that makes the next book so much more exciting for me. 

But, I would like to see Misaki getting more synergy with her crew, mainly last blossom. As well as getting more ways to attack. 

For Lynch I would love additional synergy between Lynch and Huggy. And it would be great with more interesting card tricks. 

[Pyrflamme]

21 hours ago, tomjoad said:

Now that they are so open to errata on existing cards (which I will restate, I think is a terrible idea that could ruin the game), I would say there's essentially no chance that something like a  being added to Brewie's Obey or Misaki's attack gaining Sh. If they think those changes are appropriate, they would just make them.

Well, I'm approaching it from the perspective that putting those on an upgrade would then be an opportunity cost (the cost of the upgrade and taking up an upgrade slot). It might be more palatable on such a hypothetical upgrade if it comes with other stuff, but at the very least I see it as different from just errata-ing the card. Plus it kinda switches things up as in the Thunder Sh upgrade - maybe you can use it from a distance, but now it's subject to cover, pluses and minuses.

[Lucidicide]

Confluxes aren't Master Upgrades, so aren't part of the 2 per thing.

[Wake of Godzilla]

On 06/07/2017 at 9:27 PM, tomjoad said:

Speculation: The new models will mostly be blah and nobody will care about them, but then in 4-6 months every will pick up on exactly one of them and begin working on proxies. The official model won't be released until June 2018. The new upgrades will be amazing, however, and new options will be fun and flavorful for all master. This will be tempered by the upgrade cards not arriving in Europe until March 2019, so all anybody will do is be angry and complain about it.

This is the best and most accurate response to all new Wyrd book publications and should be used for all future publications. 

[Patzer]

One thing I would love. Misaki being able to summon Torakage on flanks... Fluffy to let the ninjas sneak in later in battle. 

[qoob]

On ‎07‎.‎07‎.‎2017 at 1:12 AM, Tokapondora said:

Then we have "Oni Model", "Scheme" and "At Least 1"", which I can only hope turns your scheme markers into flicker somehow. Would let you get some more use out of Onis that have flickered out. Dimensional instability or something. It doesn't end in "on:" where the gap is, which the action below does, making me fairly confident this is an ability so whatever it is it's probably passive. Doesn't really look like it though since the following action already says...

Would be great if it says something like "... a sacrificed Oni drops a corpse, scheme or scrap marker".

And due it is a conflux upgrade i do think that the emissary gets the Oni characteristic.

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, qoob said:

Would be great if it says something like "... a sacrificed Oni drops a corpse, scheme or scrap marker".

And due it is a conflux upgrade i do think that the emissary gets the Oni characteristic.

That could be a possibility, but because it's an ability that the Shadow Emissary has, and not one that it gives to Asami I don't think it's likely.

[qoob]

15 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

That could be a possibility, but because it's an ability that the Shadow Emissary has, and not one that it gives to Asami I don't think it's likely.

Oh yes of course...maybe a ability like "An Oni's Spirit" from the Heavenly Design upgrade?

Fingers crossed  

[Pyrflamme]

On 7/7/2017 at 3:39 PM, Aaron said:

Confluxes aren't Master Upgrades, so aren't part of the 2 per thing.

Something just occurred to me - we've heard 2 upgrades per Master, and Confluxes for Wave 4 Masters, but will the book also include campaign Avatars for the Wave 4 Masters?

[Tokapondora]

What masters would you consider to even have space for these upgrades and what would an upgrade take to make some space? At least for me;

Misaki has Stalking Bisento, Misdirection and Recalled Training stapled to her card. Any change would I think have to come from swapping out Bisento, since MD is invaluable for a Melee master and RT too (plus, MD with a  from RT and a  from no more SS is almost guaranteed to go off). And with a min 2 on her damage, I'd struggle to part with the  to damage from Bisento and RT. To really get me to discard the 's to her Bisento it'd need to either make Thunder go bonkers, give Bisento a built in , give a new ability entirely or just a huge slew of triggers.

Mei Feng, likewise, is filled to the brim with upgrades with me often wishing I could pop a fourth on there. Misdirection, naturally, since she wants to be in groups of enemies and it allows a 's to do something on success or failure. Add to that Seismic Claws since it's kinda what gets her card rolling and then Vapormancy tends to win out over RT, as much as I'd like RT on her. It's just such a massive AP saver and the possibility to blast into close combat with just a 6 is often too good to pass up. I could probably stand to miss it if we got another piece to trigger Mei into longer and more combos. Perhaps even a new attack. I'd probably still default to Vapormancy but with a Terracotta Warrior I could see the match-up and make my mind up then. 

Now Lynch I definitely have a spare slot for. With Woke Up With A Hand and Rising Sun you generally have most of what you need from him, and while I never say no to an RT up there I never really need it with him. It's just a nice extra that I wouldn't mind swapping out for anything else.

The Brewmaster has Binge and that's it. Anything to fill that up would be more than welcome. Preferably not poison based. And something strong, because he needs it. Desperately.

Now McCabe is, as one would expect, filled up nicely. With Promises already glued onto his card and Misdirection such an alluring mid-game swap I'd find it a waste to not have this upgrade be one like his other treasures. Just a new toy he can toss across the room. I might take it, might swap it out, might leave it alone - he's already on top of the TT powercurve so he'd be best off with an alternative rather than something to make up the difference.

Yan Lo is, again, filled up. Misdirection is the natural go-to since he tends to dive into enemy crews, and I find Reliquary unmissable since it's pretty much the one thing that makes Yan an interesting and unique choice over other masters - an Izamu and Emissary that I can treat as disposable as I want. And that leaves us with the final upgrade slot which is heavily contended by both Fortify the Spirit and the Khakkhara. I know the Emissary buffs it, but I'm still not huge on it in all honesty. With Df and Wp 5 I find he's still rather vulnerable, just moreso to awkward conditions and control than death. And with that you have a trigger on half your defenses. I think I'd much prefer an Ascendant upgrade to a normal one. At 3 Chi the Bone Ascendant is to me a bit too awkward to take already. I hope it'd be 1-2ish Chi and maybe let Yan give his crew some mobility. Or maybe fill him up with Triggers. 

And Shenlong is one of those rare masters that actually has space galore for upgrades. I'm quite content with a Style and leaving it at that. I've occasionally gone with a Misdirection if I felt he needed to pull his weight as a beater, an RT is one of those things that seems nice in theory but I never really get much from it. He has loads of space. But he's also, like McCabe, head and shoulders above the rest. I'd be a tad worried about giving him something that would be seen as a "worth the 1-2 SS", since he'll always have space for it and it'd turn into a straight buff. So for him I'd much prefer another Style to give some more options. Ideally one that's compatible with Yu giving him maaaybe some competition over Wandering River or at least gives Terracotta Warriors something to toolbox into.

And lastly there's Asami, who I tend to fill up with upgrades but really wouldn't mind swapping out some. A Heavenly Design is the one autotake. Beyond that I tend to have Nefarious Pact since my main group has a habit of stocking up on condition removal, at least against me (something about Lynch and Brewie being my main masters, I'm guessing) and she can always use the extra card. And lastly there's Servant if I suspect Wp-y shenanigans or the occasional Fate of Mortals if I feel the schemes enable it. All very much replacable, though. If anything, I'd like her to get something to ease up on her card intensity. 's to attacks generated on charges around her, maybe raising duel totals of Oni by 1 around her... Just something to up her supportiness and give some relief after the TN's on everything.