New to Forum and Malifaux: Initial Praises, frustration, and a couple of questions.

[Hot4Perdita]

Hello everyone. This is my first post in the forum after being a lurker for a while. I am relatively new to Malifaux, having played around 15-20 games thus far over the past 7 months or so. I started with Guild and Perdita, and have now added Lady Justice, along with many other Guild models. Currently sitting on the shelf waiting to be built are the Sonia box set, executioners, and the Two Victoria's box. 

 

So far, I am loving this game. I'm still getting used to the game, I have only won maybe twice, but regardless of if I win or lose miserably, I have a blast playing. This is by far my favorite game. I don't think it could ever get old. Things I love about Malifaux: 

-The card mechanic: it's so nice not to have to chuck dice for once.

-The ability to choose models to suit the games objective. 

-Each character is unique in its Action and abilities, and the name of the actions and abilities suit the personality of the character.

-It never seems to get old, as each game has different objectives and your crew can be different each time. 

 

Now, for my only gripe, which has been a HUGE frustration, and I apologize in advance for venting. After playing my first few games, I got hooked. I proceeded to order all the four books with all the models in them, markers and tokens, and many more models. After studying the books, I found a few models I just had to have. One of these was the Guild Austringer. I found that my local game shop could not get them, as they were out of stock. No online retailer had them in stock. Eventually, I found one but had to pay way over retail to get it. I was fine with it at the time because I really wanted it. The first time I put them on the table, I had a plan. I put the Austringers behind blocking terrain. My plan was to use Raptor to get my opponents hand discarded then send Perdita in for the kill.  When it came time to activate, I went to focus, then use the Raptor for an 18" range. That's when I was told "Oh, that's changed on errata." I had no idea what errata was. So basically I paid way over what I should have to get these great models with this awesome ability just to find out I can't use it. I was so mad. Then, I ran into this again when I started to use Lady Justice for the first time. My plan was to use Francisco and Papa Loco to buff Lady Justice to bump up her defense and add a plus to her damage flip with El Mayor and Hold This. The card says it is valid "until this models next activation or until it is killed or sacrificed." So my plan was to put Papa Loco in the Pine Box of a Death Marshall to keep him out of harms way and to keep the Hold This alive by keeping him from activating. What do I hear? "Oh that's changed in errata." Are you kidding me? 

Again, sorry for my rant, but it is extremely frustrating as a consumer to shell out hundreds of dollars on products and then the company come out and tells you they are worthless. I spent a lot of money on those books and the models just to find out that I can't use them the way they were printed. It essentially made three of my best models way less effective. Given, I did not know of the "errata", but still, I don't think it's fair to change something like that without a new edition or something after people have invested their money for something that should work as advertised. What's next? I'm sort of afraid of buying new models because they might change something and make that model worthless. Has anyone made this frustration known to Wyrd?

 

OK, rant over. Still, I love this game aside from the "errata". I'm looking forward to many more games. Lastly, I have two questions if someone could answer

 

-When will Witchling Thralls be released?

-A lot of summoning actions called for a model to be summoned and take "damage equal to half its wounds that cannot be reduced." I take this as you cannot reduce the wounds by any means including healing. Is that correct? I played against an opponent that had that statement on the card, but after summoning proceeded to use his crew's healer to heal the summoned damage. It seems to me that this shouldn't be allowed based on the above restriction on the card. Any insights?

 

Thanks for everyone reading my first post, I look forward to interacting here.

 

 

[Adran]

Wyrd does not errata many things, but it does sometimes errata things that it thinks are too good, or too bad or too confusing. They know it is frustrating to not have the right rules on the card you have, and the perception from the customer base sometimes is that they are slower to errata because they don't want to create too many situations where you don't have the right card, and don't know it. 

The current design team plans twice yearly errata, once in January to deal with issues that have come up, and once in July to deal with Extreme issues that they don't want to leave out there for a whole year. There is also a bimonthly frequently asked question where they will clear up some of the card interactions. These both can be found here.

https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux-faq-errata

 

The line on summoning means the model will come in with damage  on it already.  It can't use abilities such as Armour to prevent some of that damage. But once they are on the table, they can be healed up in the same way any other model could be healed up. The game does not keep track of the source of damage to be un heal able damage, several models have attacks that deal damage that can't be reduced in any way, and this damage can also be healed. 

[Gnomezilla]

Welcome to Guild: everyone hates us.

The last errata disempowered several models and tactics in several factions that were making a negative play experience. Unfortunately for us Guildies, one of our common tactics [burying] is one of those that so annoys other people. The compromise between leaving us able to bury our own with little or no ability for retaliation, or otherwise making the models which use burying useless, hit several other models' cards at once.  (And then the next wave of models came out, introducing some capability to attack models while they are buried or penalizing them when they unbury again. I prefer having more counter-tech available to having had to use errata, but...)

Errata are part of all games, tho' I'm surprised you didn't find mention of that anywhere while you were researching austringers.

 

Since a new book traditionally is promoted at GenCon in mid-August and released in September, we assume (but only assume) that witchling thralls will also be a September release. Heavens know the Lucius players have been waiting eagerly. (Speaking of errata, to counter-balance destroying the Papabox tactic, Lucius got a considerable improvement. If you pick him up, make sure you get the errata cards there as well. Devil's Deal should be dealing only 2 irreducible damage, etc.)

[Hot4Perdita]

3 hours ago, Gnomezilla said:

Welcome to Guild: everyone hates us.

The last errata disempowered several models and tactics in several factions that were making a negative play experience. Unfortunately for us Guildies, one of our common tactics [burying] is one of those that so annoys other people. The compromise between leaving us able to bury our own with little or no ability for retaliation, or otherwise making the models which use burying useless, hit several other models' cards at once.  (And then the next wave of models came out, introducing some capability to attack models while they are buried or penalizing them when they unbury again. I prefer having more counter-tech available to having had to use errata, but...)

Errata are part of all games, tho' I'm surprised you didn't find mention of that anywhere while you were researching austringers.

 

Since a new book traditionally is promoted at GenCon in mid-August and released in September, we assume (but only assume) that witchling thralls will also be a September release. Heavens know the Lucius players have been waiting eagerly. (Speaking of errata, to counter-balance destroying the Papabox tactic, Lucius got a considerable improvement. If you pick him up, make sure you get the errata cards there as well. Devil's Deal should be dealing only 2 irreducible damage, etc.)

 

I was using the books I purchased to solely research what I wanted to get, that's why I never knew of errata. I had yet to turn to the internet. 

 

I do not see how it made a negative play experience as you mentioned, I thought it looked awesome! It seems to me there are plenty of good models in other factions to counteract. I've played against several crews I thought were way overpowered, but I do not feel that they should be changed. Anyway, I guess my big frustration in the whole ordeal is spending the money just to find out I couldn't use them for the reason I bought them. My suggestion would be not to change models stats until you change to a new edition. That way there's nothing to keep up with. Most other games I play seem to do it this way. Once they get enough feedback and make a big enough list of items, they release a new edition with the changes.

 

Anyway, I know I sound negative, but I do love this game. It is by far my favorite. I plan on expanding to other factions as I move along. I wouldn't change a thing about this game at this point other than holding off on the errata. 

[Angelshard]

If you've mainly used books for play I'd warn you that most of the discussions on the forum are based around Gaining Grounds which a document of schemes and strategies that changes each year.

The idea is to break up the meta and replace or tweak some if the schemes or strategies to make them more interresting and better.

Comming from 40k, warmachine and dystopian wars I'm quite fond of errata myself as having to wait 2-3 years for a model to be changed is extremely frustrating.

Also I'd argue that I've yet to see a model not being used because of errata, remember that it goes both ways, some models that didn't quite cut it gets a boost to make them viable.

[Math Mathonwy]

18 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

Again, sorry for my rant, but it is extremely frustrating as a consumer to shell out hundreds of dollars on products and then the company come out and tells you they are worthless. I spent a lot of money on those books and the models just to find out that I can't use them the way they were printed. It essentially made three of my best models way less effective.

The Austringer errata was more of a sideways change - they are still extremely powerful models. Franc didn't change meaningfully (Burying him was a really bad idea most of the time) and he is still one of the (if not simply the) best Henchmen in the game let alone the Guild. So the only one that I think got meaningfully weaker was Papa Loco and even he is far from becoming anywhere close to "worthless". Burying him was a gimmick and if the model's whole worth hung on that gimmick then good riddance!

[Adran]

I honestly don't know of any game that doesn't issue errata during its edition. 

Wyrd have stated they aren't going to come round your house and steal your models if you don't use the most recent rules, so it is up to you and your opponents if you are going to use the errata, or the cards you currently have. There are very few issues (I honestly can't think of any) that have been erratad that are likely to ruin a friendly game, but were becoming an issue in tournement settings or going against the intention of the card (getting the permanent buiff from papa was not intended).

I would say almost everything looks overpowered when you first face it. Most of them aren't, but just occasionally some of them are considered to be overpowered enough that Wyrd wanted to change them. 

[Hot4Perdita]

6 hours ago, Angelshard said:

If you've mainly used books for play I'd warn you that most of the discussions on the forum are based around Gaining Grounds which a document of schemes and strategies that changes each year.

The idea is to break up the meta and replace or tweak some if the schemes or strategies to make them more interresting and better.

Comming from 40k, warmachine and dystopian wars I'm quite fond of errata myself as having to wait 2-3 years for a model to be changed is extremely frustrating.

Also I'd argue that I've yet to see a model not being used because of errata, remember that it goes both ways, some models that didn't quite cut it gets a boost to make them viable.

As far as the Gaining Grounds, I'm not sure I fully understand what it is, but a buddy I play with gave me a deck of scheme/ strategy cards called Gaining Grounds 2017. He said everyone is using those now, not the original strategy and schemes that are in the book, because it is what they are using in tournaments. So all of my games except my first couple or so have been from that deck. Is this a permanent thing? Is the original deck from the book obsolete, or is Gaining Grounds just a special tournament deck?

[Hot4Perdita]

6 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

The Austringer errata was more of a sideways change - they are still extremely powerful models. Franc didn't change meaningfully (Burying him was a really bad idea most of the time) and he is still one of the (if not simply the) best Henchmen in the game let alone the Guild. So the only one that I think got meaningfully weaker was Papa Loco and even he is far from becoming anywhere close to "worthless". Burying him was a gimmick and if the model's whole worth hung on that gimmick then good riddance!

You're right, I'm not so much worried about Francisco. I would never want to bury him. As far as Papa, he is a liability because of Boom!, and could take out your own friendly crew. The main reason I wanted to Pine Box him was to transport him safely to the enemy and then unleash him when engaged. The several turn Hold This buff would have been an added bonus.

 

Like is said, I just recently turned to the internet and am new to the forum, so until lately I thought I came up with the Papa Box tactic on my own. Little did I know everyone else was doing it. LOL

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Hot4Perdita said:

You're right, I'm not so much worried about Francisco. I would never want to bury him. As far as Papa, he is a liability because of Boom!, and could take out your own friendly crew. The main reason I wanted to Pine Box him was to transport him safely to the enemy and then unleash him when engaged. The several turn Hold This buff would have been an added bonus.

 

Like is said, I just recently turned to the internet and am new to the forum, so until lately I thought I came up with the Papa Box tactic on my own. Little did I know everyone else was doing it. LOL

The papa in a box tactic was partially changed because of how much of a boost it gave Sonnia, where he was strictly just there to put Hold This on her all game without any major threat of losing it unless you just so happened to be playing against Tara or someone using Aionus. But really local players should have mentioned something to you about the errata, doubly so since you're playing guild.

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Hot4Perdita said:

As far as the Gaining Grounds, I'm not sure I fully understand what it is, but a buddy I play with gave me a deck of scheme/ strategy cards called Gaining Grounds 2017. He said everyone is using those now, not the original strategy and schemes that are in the book, because it is what they are using in tournaments. So all of my games except my first couple or so have been from that deck. Is this a permanent thing? Is the original deck from the book obsolete, or is Gaining Grounds just a special tournament deck?

Gaining grounds has been the tournemt rules. For the past 3 years they have put out a combination of new strategies and schemes to change the game. This also had the advantage of letting them "secretly" adjust the power levels of some schemes and figures.The new gainign ground typically comes out ready for the January. The Book ones are still valid, and do get used sometimes, but a lot of people prefere using the latest gaining grounds both because they are practising for events, and they find it slightly more balanced overall. I don't know what the plans for gaining ground 2018 are, but there is nothing to stop you still playing Gaining grounds 2017 if you want. 

[Soil]

On the errata issue, I think its great that they work to balance the game, but I cant see why there arent any updated cards to buy efter each errata. It feels a bit off that you need to find a subcatagory on the website in order to play with the correct rules

[Gnomezilla]

Maybe wargamevault isn't advertised as well as I thought it was...actually you have a point, it is linked in several places but none of those are connected right there at the errata. So. We'd better fix that.

Print-on-demand cards for every book but the current one are available on wargamevault, minimum order 10 cards, or buy the handy 2017 errata pack. If for some reason you still want arsenal decks (one book's worth of one faction's models) they're also still in print there, although they are not as useful for the new player as they once were. Generalist upgrade decks unnamed ["one"] and Two (general upgrades for all factions--save yours, trade the rest) are still ordered from anywhere you buy your minis.

[Soil]

20 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Maybe wargamevault isn't advertised as well as I thought it was...actually you have a point, it is linked in several places but none of those are connected right there at the errata. So. We'd better fix that.

Print-on-demand cards for every book but the current one are available on wargamevault, minimum order 10 cards, or buy the handy 2017 errata pack. If for some reason you still want arsenal decks (one book's worth of one faction's models) they're also still in print there, although they are not as useful for the new player as they once were. Generalist upgrade decks unnamed ["one"] and Two (general upgrades for all factions--save yours, trade the rest) are still ordered from anywhere you buy your minis.

Is it advertised at all? ^^ I've been a frequent clicker of the website, never seen it  I heard about it via a friend who plays competitavely. To me it comes across as a random third party website. I went there just now and the Rotten bell card still shows with 8 wounds, Rooster rider has reckless. Wouldnt risk buying those. 

Personally I would love to have official Wyrd-cards in the LGS and a sticker on boxes with new cards. Like with any other game it shouldnt require an effort before spending money on it, nor should it require buying add ons to models coming straight off the shelves  The effort is spent making the money

[tmod]

The cards should be updated, but the pictures are still old. Was a big issue earlier in the winter/spring...

[WWHSD]

3 hours ago, Soil said:

Is it advertised at all? ^^ I've been a frequent clicker of the website, never seen it  I heard about it via a friend who plays competitavely. To me it comes across as a random third party website. I went there just now and the Rotten bell card still shows with 8 wounds, Rooster rider has reckless. Wouldnt risk buying those. 

Personally I would love to have official Wyrd-cards in the LGS and a sticker on boxes with new cards. Like with any other game it shouldnt require an effort before spending money on it, nor should it require buying add ons to models coming straight off the shelves  The effort is spent making the money

You can go to Wyrd's errata page to download the cards which have recieved errata for free and print them yourself.

Being able to get the cards with errata to print yourself for free or to pay a nominal price to get them printed professionally if you'd prefer is great in my opinion. Having to rely on a LGS to stock the cards to purchase isn't something I'd want to deal with.

The two stores near me that carry Malifaux have trouble enough buying the right models and turning over the inventory that they do have. If half of their inventory became less desireable because it didn't contain the updated card, that would seem to be a problem.

I do feel you on the "Wyrd doesn't make it easy to get into the game" bit. The recent starter set was a nice step but even if you pick that up you still need to figure out what tokens are needed to play and to come up with a table full of terrain. I would have loved to have been able to buy a $20-$30 pack full of cardstock tokens and enough 2D terrain to play a game. Hell, I'd probably be down for a $50 annual purchase that had the Gaining Grounds strategy and scheme cards, the tokens used in those schemes, a few generic tokens, and some 2D terrain that changed every year.

[esqulax]

I love errata.

 

Sure the optimal thing would be if everything was balanced on the first try, but that is completely impossible to achieve for a game like this. So the fact that Wyrd actually corrects their mistakes is a huge plus for me. I played another game years back from a company that I shall not name where it would have been a dream to see them strive to balance their game in the way Wyrd is doing.

 

Plus it happens rarely enough that it really isn't that troublesome to just read the full errata for your faction 

[Hot4Perdita]

I read up a little on here about why they changed the "Hold This" on Papa Loco. I have a little better insight to the claimed purpose of errata, so here are my thoughts.

In the case of the Sonnia Papa Box crew,  I keep reading on here that "Hold This" was way too strong for Sonnia, it made her impossible to beat, etc., and that's why they changed it. If that's the case, and the well-being of the game depended on stopping that buff, then when the errata was made it should have only addressed the issue at hand with Sonnia, and not hurt the Papa model for other masters. For example, a change to the "Hold This" should have been something like: "Hold This: At the start of this model's activation, choose another friendly model within 2", the friendly model gains + to damage flips it makes until the start of this models next activation or until it is killed or sacrificed. If Sonnia is the master, this condition ends when this model leaves play." A change like that would address the problem at hand without harming this models ability with other masters where it is not an issue. 

A big part of this game, especially to a newer player like myself, is the quest to find a combination of models that will work well and do the best in given situations. It seems that when an individual builds a crew that works well (like the guy with the Sonnia Papa Box crew), probably through years of trial and error and dollars spent,  Wyrd comes along and changes or "erratas"  it. The motivation behind that? Revenue? Maybe Wyrd thinks that if a crew works too well then people will buy that crew and not buy other models, so they have to make a change when someone discovers a good combination. Maybe or maybe not. Just a hypothesis.

Finding combinations that work good to give a crew an advantage is all a part of the strategy and skill required for this game. When you were a kid and picking your team for a friendly after school game of football or basketball, were you going to pick the small, weak kid or the big and fast kid? Same applies here. All about planning and strategizing. There are several crews I have played against that I felt were very overpowering. One that comes to mind are the Victoria's. On the first activation of the turn, my opponent got two activations through companion or accomplice (can't remember which),  and sent Victoria of Blood from over 18" away to engage a multitude of my models. She had multiple buffs, including Fast, Melee Expert, + on attack flips, +2 on damage, plus more that I can't remember, and a handful of cards to boot. Through the multiple attacks and whirlwind triggers, by the time it was all over I had lost Francisco, the Lone Marshall, a Guild Hound, and Perdita was hanging on by her last wound (and only reason she wasn't killed was because I burned through all my soul stones to prevent). Overpowering? Absolutely! Do I think they should errata that? No way! Instead of whining about how overpowering it is and how much it sucks and should be changed, I'll be looking for a way to defend against that next time or a way to take her out before that happens. 

Last, I bought all the books with the models cards in them when I started. I use them constantly to research for my crews and opposition research. The more errata is released, the more those books become worthless. If Wyrd feels they need to change things, they should print an updated and revised book to send to those of us that spent $40 a piece for these books. What's the purpose in having these books if they will be no good eventually? 

Hopefully Wyrd will consider these things. I understand if they feel they need to do that to sustain revenue, but they also need to measure the effect on the customer, which could end up being worse. I heard Battlefront made that mistake on a prior edition of Flames of War. Evidently, they printed all these different books and were charging up to $40 a piece for them. There were many different books, and customers were buying a lot of them. Then, a few months later, they decided to come out with a new edition that made all those books that people had just bought worthless. Needless to say, many people were ticked off, and as a result, quit Flames of War altogether. I just started getting into FOW with the new 4th edition, but I have had a hard time finding people to play me because of the reason stated above, and because people are afraid of buying the stuff cause it might become obsolete after they buy it after what Battlefront did in the past.

[Pyrflamme]

With a good company, errata is not to destroy model performance in the name of profit, but rather to address models that are so overwhelmingly strong by themselves that they effectively make taking other models pointless. Such models eventually lead to stagnation in listbuilding when not addressed by company errata, excepting "comp" formats where the community takes it upon themselves to set rules to account for the overpowering nature of these models. Strong combos are one thing, combos are vulnerable to disruption. Individual strength is another matter.

Wyrd already publicly issues their errata for free, including providing errata cards on their website which could easily be printed off and cut out/laminated. You can find them by going here and scrolling down to the Errata section: https://www.wyrd-games.net/malifaux-faq-errata They also partner with a print on demand service to provide "official" cards: http://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/5162/Wyrd-Miniatures/subcategory/9801_24297/Individual-Cards The company even has offered "errata bundles".

The books are still chockful of fluff, and the vast majority of cards have not seen errata.

I would rather have a company that pays attention to the play experience and tries to keep a game from being reduced to the X most powerful models than not.

 

[santaclaws01]

4 hours ago, Hot4Perdita said:

I read up a little on here about why they changed the "Hold This" on Papa Loco. I have a little better insight to the claimed purpose of errata, so here are my thoughts.

In the case of the Sonnia Papa Box crew,  I keep reading on here that "Hold This" was way too strong for Sonnia, it made her impossible to beat, etc., and that's why they changed it. If that's the case, and the well-being of the game depended on stopping that buff, then when the errata was made it should have only addressed the issue at hand with Sonnia, and not hurt the Papa model for other masters. For example, a change to the "Hold This" should have been something like: "Hold This: At the start of this model's activation, choose another friendly model within 2", the friendly model gains + to damage flips it makes until the start of this models next activation or until it is killed or sacrificed. If Sonnia is the master, this condition ends when this model leaves play." A change like that would address the problem at hand without harming this models ability with other masters where it is not an issue. 

A big part of this game, especially to a newer player like myself, is the quest to find a combination of models that will work well and do the best in given situations. It seems that when an individual builds a crew that works well (like the guy with the Sonnia Papa Box crew), probably through years of trial and error and dollars spent,  Wyrd comes along and changes or "erratas"  it. The motivation behind that? Revenue? Maybe Wyrd thinks that if a crew works too well then people will buy that crew and not buy other models, so they have to make a change when someone discovers a good combination. Maybe or maybe not. Just a hypothesis.

Finding combinations that work good to give a crew an advantage is all a part of the strategy and skill required for this game. When you were a kid and picking your team for a friendly after school game of football or basketball, were you going to pick the small, weak kid or the big and fast kid? Same applies here. All about planning and strategizing. There are several crews I have played against that I felt were very overpowering. One that comes to mind are the Victoria's. On the first activation of the turn, my opponent got two activations through companion or accomplice (can't remember which),  and sent Victoria of Blood from over 18" away to engage a multitude of my models. She had multiple buffs, including Fast, Melee Expert, + on attack flips, +2 on damage, plus more that I can't remember, and a handful of cards to boot. Through the multiple attacks and whirlwind triggers, by the time it was all over I had lost Francisco, the Lone Marshall, a Guild Hound, and Perdita was hanging on by her last wound (and only reason she wasn't killed was because I burned through all my soul stones to prevent). Overpowering? Absolutely! Do I think they should errata that? No way! Instead of whining about how overpowering it is and how much it sucks and should be changed, I'll be looking for a way to defend against that next time or a way to take her out before that happens. 

Last, I bought all the books with the models cards in them when I started. I use them constantly to research for my crews and opposition research. The more errata is released, the more those books become worthless. If Wyrd feels they need to change things, they should print an updated and revised book to send to those of us that spent $40 a piece for these books. What's the purpose in having these books if they will be no good eventually? 

Hopefully Wyrd will consider these things. I understand if they feel they need to do that to sustain revenue, but they also need to measure the effect on the customer, which could end up being worse. I heard Battlefront made that mistake on a prior edition of Flames of War. Evidently, they printed all these different books and were charging up to $40 a piece for them. There were many different books, and customers were buying a lot of them. Then, a few months later, they decided to come out with a new edition that made all those books that people had just bought worthless. Needless to say, many people were ticked off, and as a result, quit Flames of War altogether. I just started getting into FOW with the new 4th edition, but I have had a hard time finding people to play me because of the reason stated above, and because people are afraid of buying the stuff cause it might become obsolete after they buy it after what Battlefront did in the past.

You're missing something in the reason Papa Loco was changed. It wasn't an intended interaction. No other master was even running Papa-in-a-box, and you would never see Francisco-in-a-box regardless of the master, but the text on El Meyor was changed in the exact same way Hold This! was.

[Ludvig]

@Hot4PerditaHe was frequently being boxed with Perdita too since she also likes those  to damage. Any model that could get blasts was really scary with a boxed Loco who then also popped out and killed half your crew while being hard to counter from the box. It was errata'd because he was meant to be a risky model to use and the box-trick was a boring and unintended thing.

I prefer balance errata to juat letting stuff be broken for ages qithout fixing them.

Rules going obsolete will happen at some point in all games, usually at a cycle of a little over five years. If I got into a game around that time I'd be wary of picking up too many books. Free model stats online seem to be coming to some systems which looks interesting to me since it solves a lot of what you are worued about.

[Angelshard]

The problem is that if you don't have an errata you have no way of addressing mechanics or models that doesn't work as intended, are too strong or too weak. Short of printing a new book with the changed cards or waiting until next edition there's nothing you can do. Personally I prefer an errata to buying a new book or have useless models on my shelf and boring must takes in all my lists. This is mainly an issue if you play in a competitive environment.

Look at the guild guard for example. He was clearly meant to be a guardsman, but it was missed in the book. I love you can add that in.

Errata has nothing to do with revenue, quite the opposite, if wyrd wanted to balance good models and earn money they'd introduce power creep and release models that could beat those too good models, forcing you to buy new models.

Pappa loco is still a great model that is used quite often so I honestly can't see the problem 

 

[Hot4Perdita]

6 hours ago, Ludvig said:

@Hot4PerditaHe was frequently being boxed with Perdita too since she also likes those  to damage. Any model that could get blasts was really scary with a boxed Loco who then also popped out and killed half your crew while being hard to counter from the box. It was errata'd because he was meant to be a risky model to use and the box-trick was a boring and unintended thing.

I prefer balance errata to juat letting stuff be broken for ages qithout fixing them.

Rules going obsolete will happen at some point in all games, usually at a cycle of a little over five years. If I got into a game around that time I'd be wary of picking up too many books. Free model stats online seem to be coming to some systems which looks interesting to me since it solves a lot of what you are worued about.

You're right, it seems many games are going digital. Warmachine is one that I know of that makes updates to models electronically. They have cards as well, but also an app that people use instead of the cards during the actual game.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer books and printed cards. I rather pick a up a printed Rulebook and skim through rather than swipe through an iPad. When I game, its nice to escape the world of electronics. It is a pain in a way though, as my game bag is super heavy from all the different  rulebooks I have ( the new Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook is heavy and huge). But I deal with it. I do however make use of the crewfaux app to build my crew, but that's about it.

[Ludvig]

I'm also a fan of books but I vastly prefer  digital errata to having unplayable models for several years.

[LunarSol]

I quite enjoy cards but I hate managing them.  I've gotten very comfortable playing WM on WarRoom and I'm starting to feel the same way about cards that I felt about Codexes after cards became the norm.  There's a charm to cards for sure that I miss in theory, but the digital implementations just removes so many out of game complications from my life and lets me just play the game.