Oiran + Hidden Agenda

[spect_spidey]

I am a new player, but I was wondering is this truly as good as it seems? Do many of you make use of Oiran? If you do, what do you typically use them for? I have only played one game with Oiran. I took two and paired one with a Rail Worker and the other with a Ten Thunder Brother. The game was against my wife who is just learning (it was her first true game). So I didn't get much chance to use much strategy with them. My initial idea was to use them paired up with Torakage when I get them. The plan is to use the Oiran to help against shooting and charging on my Torakage while luring opponents towards the Torakage for them to then to charge. I also figure Torakage could make decent scheme runners. Thoughts?

[InvokeChaos]

TL;DR - They just aren't competitive enough with our other 5ss options... even with Hidden Agenda 

I have several thoughts  but as you'll see, that's very typical of my posts. 

First off, welcome to 10T! I hope you enjoy your stay here!

I'll address Torakage first, as they are a side mention in your post and thus I'm not going to focus on them.  Torakage due indeed make pretty nifty scheme runners, but their point cost is what's restrictive. For 6ss, they are a fairly tight package, but they don't bring enough defensive qualities nor do they have enough mobility tricks to outpace the cheaper 5ss and 4ss options of the Yokai, 10T Brothers and Tengu. Not saying they are slow... Wk6 with ability to just walk out of engagement is a thing... but they have no place effect. The other 3 do.  All on non-AP spending abilities.  They are decent in df/wp, but only 6wds and no defensive stats. 10T Bros have all the defense... Yokai bring tremendous melee potential and tengu are stupid cheap.  So they all have their places. Torakage aren't bad... not in the slightest. But they just don't quite bring the heat the other three scheme runners have.

That being said, they definitely have their place with certain masters and scheme pools. But I wouldn't count them as go-to's. They will also work great if you don't have the other models, haha! While they are a point more, running 2 of them is definitely not a bad thing. They just aren't as competitive as some other options. That's all. Be aware that min damage 3 models can 2 shot them... and that's a whole lot of pain.

On to Oiran.

So Oiran are one of those "I wish this model was better" kind of things. Here's why: 

CONS

1)  Oiran are the ONLY lure in the game that doesn't have it's requirements built-in.  Which means it only goes off if you are super lucky, or have the proper suit in your hand. This automatically disqualifies them for a lot of people.

2)  Their melee attack is "only" 5, so she can't hit reliably against stronger models, and even if she could... her attack is damage spread is PATHETIC. And their 2AP melee attack? Even worse. It's actually so bad, that it's better to focus and attack with their primary attack then it is to use their higher accuracy 2AP attack. You would have to connect 3-4 times with the 2AP attack to do better than a single focused mod/severe hit from the primary.

3)  Their defenses are wholly lackluster and they die to a stiff breeze. 

Ok, so now that I've picked them apart, let's go over why I personally like them and do use them with a specific sort of regularity.

PROS

1) They have disguised, which is really strong. 

2) They like Defensive... so much so that they get it 2 for 1! This matters. Some mathematical geniuses that are not me have stated that  to you duels statistically can be considered as raising your stat value by 1. Don't ask me where I read it. Don't ask me to explain it. Obviously the high end doesn't matter... their 13 still beats yours. But the concept is that getting a  to your flips is really solid. Now the downside is your fishing for your black joker at that point, but if you have already seen it or it's in your hand, there's literally no reason to not stack those  's.

3) They have a +1 to WP aura. This is the reason I take them right here. Especially against Neverborn and Ressurectionists... both of which have some really terrible WP shenanigans fairly common in their crew.

4) Her main defensive trick is actually her attack. The trigger on her melee attack prevents showgirls from being targeted by the model she damaged. This can be a game changer as she's only Rg 1", but Cg 8... so you can dash into a big model, make it unable to attack the Oiran, and she can't be charged by anyone else. The Rg 1" matters because it gives very little room to maneuver for your opponent. This is a give and take thing... you don't tie up as many models... but the ones you DO tie up, don't have much range of flexibility. If you are a 3" reach and they are a 50mm base... they can tip toe to the edge of your threat range and still threaten almost 5" + their range away... yeah they can't charge or shoot but they still can do stuff. And a heavy hitter may not need more than one swing. Or just needs to engage your model or something. So strangely, there low reach is a positive for what you want to use it for.

5) They CAN lure... it's just really hard.

6) Hidden Agenda.  Ok so this upgrade seems LEGIT. And you know what? It is. So while they don't have the raw mobility and such that some of the other scheme runners do, being able to have 2-3 minions on the board that can't be charged, can make them untargetable by something their engaged with AND have fast every turn?  That can be insanely good. Not to mention the free focus. 

SO WHY AREN'T THEY TAKEN MORE?

So despite the pros outweighing the cons in quantity, it's the quality that matters. Consider this: Fast + focused is 2AP. Fast grants an AP, focus takes an AP to get. So Hidden Agenda effectively hands 2AP to all Oiran when it triggers (which is why putting it on a ranged character is usually the idea). And even with a free focus and 3AP... they STILL aren't as effective as a 10T brother. Let's do a simple breakdown as to why:

Bro has same stats effectively. Swap the Df and Wp. Lower charge, but bros can potentially make up for it with the reach on their weapons (and the trigger on their dance)... so for me that's kind of a wash. 

Both like going defensive. Oiran get a two for one. Bros get +1 to the Df stat and a trigger to up their defensive condition from being attacked. So bros are better here.

Both have only one attack (yes Oiran have two but see above) but the 10T brothers is leaps and bounds better overall.  While the Oiran's is niche, the 10T bros is just useful all the time.

Fast from Oiran can be matched with the mask trigger from the dance of heaves on the bros... which places them 3" (effectively 4" because it's not completely within). So they are only 1" slower... and don't require a model to have attacked and damaged to get it. Thus it's by and large more consistent. Especially with the other 3 triggers available that are ALL useful. 

So basically... any time you might think an Oiran is a decent take as a scheme runner or flanker... 10T bros is just BETTER. Arguably so are Yokai. All 5ss.

SO WHEN DO YOU TAKE THEM?

I take them for the aura and when I want to toss hidden agenda on a random model to enable Shadow Emissary (pushes and fasts an upgrade wearing model). Like a heavy hitter who gets recalled training? If he's a henchman he's also getting hidden agenda just because it's free and sticks on him. If I'm facing neverborn or rezzers... then that oiran is coming in. I am NOT going to try to get the fast and focused... it's just gravy if I do. I am going to keep those oiran for the WP aura and for activation control and scheming. if I get that mystical high crow in hand, then that lure is going to happen at the WORST time for my opponent.

Oh and because they do like defensive so much, but it requires a card... Lynch is a good master for them as his crew likes the bonus WP, you can pitch aces to go defensive, and you can even use the emissary's 0 action to give damage reduction to models that are defensive.  Cute tricks. They actually do work though.

Seriously though, grab some yokai or 10T brothers. You won't be disappointed.

[spect_spidey]

Thank you for the input. I do have 10T Brothers. I ran two of them with Oiran today and Hidden Agenda on Mei Feng. I used the Oiran lure to pull the brothers up to them on turn 1 before they activated. With Standard deployment, I was on centerline ready to drop schemes on both flanks. I only got to make use of Hidden Agenda once. Unfortunately, I didn't have the flips or cards to help make the attacks land. I agree that their damage is low, but they do also cause poison on their 1 AP attack. I will have to try them a few more times, but I agree that the Brothers are nice for holding the lines and keeping your opponent from messing with your markers.

[spooky_squirrel]

One place you might consider Oiran is under McCabe, but you'll be comparing them to the dogs when it comes down to saber-wielders, threat ranges, and abilities. That Cg 8 with all of the other things that McCabe can do to them (including tossing the saber to them), and other things you might be tempted to field with him like mounted guardsman (especially if you picked up the nightmare edition) that substantially increase your threat/counterthreat range. It also plays nicely with the Shadow Emissary's support effects, as those items are upgrades.

 

Outside of that, I take Oiran when I'm running showgirls (as Arcanists) or expecting Willpower duels that I'm not mitigating through other effects (like Kang).

[Khyodee]

I've started to take 1 with Shenlong in my "sniper" crew since you can put hidden agenda on McTavish/Envy/Laz and it basically gives you a 3 AP scheme runner who can sometimes lure other models around (don't ever count on having the suit when you really need it though).