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Guild vs all summon Nicodem


Rostislav

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Take Perdita, kill Nicodem, opponent forfeits on the first turn.

Also take Sonnia, kill everything, opponents forfeits on the second turn works reasonably well, and you have the backup plan of blocking all his summoned models to the deployment zone with Flame walls.

You could also catch your opponent unaware and use Emissary to throw Lady Justice in the middle of his crew and then proceed to remove all corpses. Requires specific timing and if your opponent can see it coming, he can probably counter it.

Hoffman could also probably send something big and hitty to threaten Nico, but that has practically no chance of catching him by surprise and takes so much time that he probably already has summoned something nasty.

Lucius will probably crash and burn.

McCabe or McMourning might be able to utilize his speed to catch some points before the zombie horde can get to a good scoring position depending on the scenario, and then try to keep the lead with withering numbers.

Nellie does what Nellie does, but she's in for a difficult game if Nico can really benefit from summons.

 

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there are several options. 

If you are worried about facing that sort of list, you can build lists that destroy corpse markers, So use Lady justice, Judge, Freikorps specalist, and so forth. Or Use Sonnia who does a large amount of Area damage, so you cause more wounds in 1 AP than your opponent gains with a summons. Or look at McMorning who can also hurt all undead in n area. 

But thats a game of list chicken and most of the time you won't know you are facing a heavy summoning list. 

The downside to a summoning list is that the actions are very card dependent. So if you can put pressure on Nicos hand, he can't summon. He can summon 3 models a turn at most (plus soem zombies), and needs to be generating corpse to do so. 

Its also relatively slow. If he is spending a large amount of his crew on the first turn summoning models, you can be getting into position to score. 

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If you know that you're opponent hire Nicodem,you're best friends are witchling stalkers.To counter attack the summoning of hanged.

then against summoner, Taelor is a kill machine.

after that,you need to make Nicodem use all of his soulstone to preventing damage,in this time with no stone he need :crow in hand to summon.

Masters like Perdita and boxed Justice can make Nicodem in seriously difficulty.

But in this time of you're opponent run Resser...is better that you hire models that can constrastate Reva.

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Thanks for answers.

 

4 hours ago, Myyrä said:

Take Perdita, kill Nicodem, opponent forfeits on the first turn.

14 wounds. Prevent. Heal. Hard to kill him fast. Hard to get Dita in shooting range fast.

Have doubts that this will work.

@Also take Sonnia, kill everything, opponents forfeits on the second turn works reasonably well, and you have the backup plan of blocking all his summoned models to the deployment zone with Flame walls.@

Tried, but failed. To many summons, to mane hard to wound/hard to kill/hard to do anything. Was leading on turn 2-4, but got overrun

@You could also catch your opponent unaware and use Emissary to throw Lady Justice in the middle of his crew and then proceed to remove all corpses. Requires specific timing and if your opponent can see it coming, he can probably counter it.@

I've been thinking about it too. I'm going to try it on Saturday, thks.


 

4 hours ago, Adran said:

f you are worried about facing that sort of list, you can build lists that destroy corpse markers, So use Lady justice, Judge, Freikorps specalist, and so forth. Or Use Sonnia who does a large amount of Area damage, so you cause more wounds in 1 AP than your opponent gains with a summons. Or look at McMorning who can also hurt all undead in n area. 


I'm going to try Lady J, thks

 

@after that,you need to make Nicodem use all of his soulstone to preventing damage,in this time with no stone he need :crow in hand to summon.@

Sounds like a plan =) 

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2 hours ago, Rostislav said:

Perdita

14 wounds. Prevent. Heal. Hard to kill him fast. Hard to get Dita in shooting range fast.

Have doubts that this will work.

@Also take Sonnia, kill everything, opponents forfeits on the second turn works reasonably well, and you have the backup plan of blocking all his summoned models to the deployment zone with Flame walls.@

Tried, but failed. To many summons, to mane hard to wound/hard to kill/hard to do anything. Was leading on turn 2-4, but got overrun

 

Perdita can charge a model upto 16" away and still have a third attack. You might need to come up with some fancy tricks to extend that range, but its certainly possible to get her into the enemy deployment zone on the first turn if you really want to. (Fast from student of conflict for example)

In Combat you can easily have her having a minimum damage 4, or 5 if you have ok rams in hand, and use of heros gamble can help if your hand is bad. Also Vengance bullet. Sure, Nico probably lives on 2 or 3 wounds, having spent 3 stones on living. But he is then at huge risk of death. And a lucky flipped moderate or even severe may be enough for that kill. 

 

Sonnia - learn the power of Focus. Pick the right target, eitehr 1 that doesn't have hard to wound, or one that does but is less than Df4, so you will get cheatable damage. Use a stone to add burning to everything, and all the hard to kill models are then going to die in the end phase. 

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Perdita is one hell of a quick master, done right you barely ever have to walk with her so you can maximise AP for shooting (or shooting in combat) she will easily gun down a few models couple that with the brutal effigy and each kill will add to your hand and give you more options.

Nellie kills but in a different way, she maximises AP so well it is untrue. She may not look like she is putting out massive damage but I often factor in that you are either adding a melee attack from one of your beaters in or adding an annoying condition. That being said against this particular list you wont have the range of Dita or the marker removal of Justice but you will have the AP manipulation.

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Regardless of what master you take here is some general advice.

Look for opportunities to target integral parts of the machine, this is important in making most crews fall apart but more important when dealing with summoners.

 

Choke cards out of them, Malifaux is all about resource management, summoners resources are cards and soul stone, divert their resources reduce their effectiveness.

I.e make them fight your fight not theirs.

 

Score first, shoot second ask questions layer,  Malifaux is beautiful in that it's not another run of the mill "kill em all" game.

Unless you are draining their hand or taking out key models think twice about attacking where positioning or interacting would be more valuable.

One trick to winning is to get your opponents focus on combat instead of Vp. 

 

Don't waste your own resources, if you're expecting a summoner your ap and activations are your main resources to concern yourself with.

Don't waste time on anything that will generate - flips (cover etc ) focus if you must to generate a threat and drain cards/stones.

When facing a crew that clusters seriously consider your attacks that can hit multiple opponents as prime assets (blasts, ricochet, pulses etc).

Hope some of that rambling helps, probably preaching to the converted, best of luck.

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56 minutes ago, jphealy said:

Honestly with any of the ressers summon  masters if they summon three times  turn 1 and 2 I consider myself having the upper hand that game anyway 

Really? We don't currently have any summoning players in my meta rn, but if I hear my opponent managed to summon in 6 models that aren't steam arachnids, I want to pack up from here.  

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Generally speaking, most of the stuff Nico summon's in have bad-ish defenses and only a moderate amount of wounds (assuming they aren't throwing multiple corpse markers per summon).  They typically hide behind +flips to defense and Hard to Wound in hopes that you'll spend more AP putting them down then he spent propping them up.  Sonnia is able to flip this equation, dropping blasts across his whole corpse farm and hopefully winging Nico in the process.

As always, the best way to deal with most summoners is force them to spend their good summoning cards on keeping their summoner alive vs. adding new models to the field.  Every good card spent fending off attacks is one less successful summon you have to worry about.

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Nico isn't too bothered by the occasional 2/3 blast damage and his summons can easily come it at 4+ wounds or he can summon high quality minions and heal them to full wounds. Sonnia really doesn't like hard to wound since it will mean she has to focus and cheat high to get cheatable damage. Maybe if you back her up with a really aggresive crew. If you can put Loco in a nice spot the bubblish nature of Nico and low df might hurt his crew.

If we assume a properly terrainfilled board and interference Nico can easily hang back behind something and summon into several quarters while being really hard to get to.

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On 6/9/2017 at 0:12 PM, 4thstringer said:

Really? We don't currently have any summoning players in my meta rn, but if I hear my opponent managed to summon in 6 models that aren't steam arachnids, I want to pack up from here.  

If my opponent is going to sit back and use all his resources turn one and two to summon and not advance up in 99% of scheme pools I have the ability to set my crew up and take initative on schemes and strats as well as positioning my crew in an excellent manner to take out what ever summoning engine he has set up.  And my meta and local store has one of the best if not best ranked resser player in the USA in it.  I take his word for it.  

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57 minutes ago, jphealy said:

If my opponent is going to sit back and use all his resources turn one and two to summon and not advance up in 99% of scheme pools I have the ability to set my crew up and take initative on schemes and strats as well as positioning my crew in an excellent manner to take out what ever summoning engine he has set up.  And my meta and local store has one of the best if not best ranked resser player in the USA in it.  I take his word for it.  

Huh, I'll have to try it out. 

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I think the problem is mostly the player taking corpse bloat or whatever it is on Mortimer and summoning 2-3 models turn 1 while also building an aggressive crew with the rest of the stones to match the opponent.

By turn 1 you have most likely made back the stones for Mortimer through summons and anything that dies turn 2 only feeds Nico. Resources in the form of cards seem readily available to a Nico list because of the automatic cycling of zombies. Even more so if you fork out the stones for Philipand the nanny but that's where it's starting to be a huge part of your list. Facing a Nico crew that drew that amount of cards an be daunting. You'll have a hard time forcing him to discard the best cards.

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On 11.06.2017 at 11:56 AM, Ludvig said:

By turn 1 you have most likely made back the stones for Mortimer through summons and anything that dies turn 2 only feeds Nico.

I've played vs Nico-main twice with Sonnia.
I've won both times (I dont remember what schemes/strats were fist time, but second time it was a total win with Reconnoiter, Close Deployment, spoted, hunting party)
I had witch handler, loco, sam, francisco, 2witchlings, kid.

My opponent thought that place some rogue necromancy and one of his dogs in the middle of map behind the building was a good idea. I went in with one of witchlings via handler, blown up in necromancy activation and just killed it all with sonnia and sam, +2 witchlings(Also Franc focused and killed birdy). Than I zoned nico and mortimer with rest of my crew. Killed all summon with handler/sam/franc for +3 for Hunting party and spreaded out. +3 for Hunting party, +2 for spotted, +3 for Reconoiter. 5 turns. My opponent had like 4 or 5 vp.

Perfect strat is loco activates, focusses, throws aoe, than sonnia throws aoe with books then sonnia throws second one.
It kills almost any hard to kill model and damages severely others. Or even kills bunch of them. In this case- you get 1-3 free 5ss models.

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7 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

@FinalForm Sounds amazing! Makes me want to get back to Sonnia.

Thx, I'm sort of Sonnias fan-boy. She also very helpful due to her counterspell aura. My opponent picked 2 belles and they just did nothing for 2 turns, cause I went in like a wrecking ball XD With mass counterspell.
On heavily terrained board you just need to get some witchlings there to die and then you just ignores los and cover.

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Summoning is strong, but I think one of its biggest strengths is the physiological effect of seeing your opponent just get more and more model as you kill them, making it seem like you are doing nothing to halt them (whilst you forget the resources he is spending on summoning). 

Sonnia for example should be able to kill the 3 summons that Nico did in 2 ap and a stone by focusing, cheating severe on the target and hitting the other models with 3 damage blasts and getting the trigger to add burning to everything. Its one of the reasons why she is such a good counter to him, and will make most Nico players have to change their approach. 

So don't conceed just because they have summoned 6 models in 2 turns. That probably has been half the wounds and all the AP of a 9 SS henchman for 2 turns (And a 4ss minions AP), and all the AP of their master for 2 turns, as well as all the good cards from their hand and 2-4 soulstones. There are some masters that for comparable resources have wiped out your crew. 

Thinking of it in those terms makes you realise it isn't as scary as it seems. Its still strong, but completely beatable. And it doesn't matter how many models the opponent ends with, its have they scored more points than you. 

I've faced Sonnia in a tournament where she killed my whole crew and summoned extra stalkers, and all I killed was Francisco, but successfully stopped him scoring so won 5-4. (Granted if we went to a 6th turn, I would have lost, but that s not the tournament way) 

 

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Not all Nico players can handle the time constraints of tournaments. If you realize that they are playing slow and the game is likely to end turn 3 you can score quick points before their summons can score them points.

Frame on something and throwing that at Nico should result in it's timely death. If hunting party or dig their graves is in the pool they should give you good points.

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