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bandido life of crime


Pallas4

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Hier
If bandido uses life of crime, does thé scheme marker still count as a friendly marker for adversary?

For examples, if hé chose search the ruine ans me not... Ans samedi question if de aller chose search the ruins ? I Knox the marker will disapear After de count it. But wich order if thé marker still counts?

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P 73 (big book) states that "If both players happen to choose the same scheme,  they are the scheming player with regards to their own insividual version of that scheme."

Bo on p 74 states "A single marker may only count towards one scheme during the encounter."

That puts you at a pretty unresolvable situation if you are supposed to simultaneously score your insividual versions of the same scheme with the same markers since they can only be used once.

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They count as yours and your enemy can't use them.

It's the same with models, you count as friendly or enemy, never both at the same time.

I'm not sure it's spelled out properly in the rules but it's the only way such abilities would make sense.

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17 hours ago, Ludvig said:

They count as yours and your enemy can't use them.

That is not very convincing.

While for McMourning or Lucius "Purposeful Misinterpretation" leaves no ambiguity (to my understanding as a non-native english speaker):

Quote

At the End of the game, all enemy Scheme Markers within :aura4 of this model become friendly Scheme Markers instead

 Thanks to the use of the verb "become" and the adverb "instead".

The phrasing for "Life of Crime" of the Bandido and Mad Dog Brackett is much more ambiguous:

Quote

At the end of the game, all enemy Scheme Markers within :aura2 count as friendly Scheme markers for the purpose of Strategy and Schemes

To me, this phrasing does not say that the Sheme Markers does not count as friendly for their initial owner. 

This, however, leads to a timing problem for scoring as some markers would be discarded by the scoring faction.

 

17 hours ago, Ludvig said:

I'm not sure it's spelled out properly in the rules but it's the only way such abilities would make sense.

I agree with you, but still it is not what it is written, to me.

 

17 hours ago, Ludvig said:

It's the same with models, you count as friendly or enemy, never both at the same time.

That is not a correct statement (if "you" refers to the player).

In case of "Promising Whisppers" of Ama No Zako for instance (or the Hugering Darkness Obey-like attack), the model count the attacker as friendly for the duration of the action.

It means that during this action you have one model of the crew considering an enemy model as friendly, while the rest of the crew still considering it as enemy, and therfore you have the player considering some ennemy models as both friendly and enemy regarding the crew as a whole. ;)

 

 

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@Ex Nihilo

The friendly/enemy model can be different to dfferent models in the crew, what I meant is that the single model doesn't count Huggy/Ama as friendly and enemy at the same time because if it did it would still need to test for terror. The ability doesn't mention that you count as only friendly yet that is the way it pans out.

Back to the question on markers: If the markers count as friendly to me for the purposes of strategy and schemes that means you can't use them to score anything since they are counted as mine. You can't use markers that are mine to score your strats in normal cases so why now?

If the ability told me I could use them to score my schemes they could still be used by you before/after that since they would still be yours, just tenporarily used by me. This ability says that they count as mine and it doesn't say it's temporary or just for the purposes of scoring my schemes so it's reasonably for the rest of the game and for both of us.

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Looking at the scoring sequence, I don't think there's an actual problem with a scheme marker being effectively both friendly and enemy.  It simply requires that both players perform in six steps under Winning the Encounter in lock-step instead of one player racing ahead.  And it probably feels a bit funny.

For example, in step 4 both players choose a scheme that uses markers.  Because of a Bandido, both players end up scoring off of the same scheme marker.  In Step 5, that scheme marker gets removed.  Then in step 6 each player scores their other scheme, and could end up "sharing" a scheme marker again.

But it's also possible that Player A with a Bandido might score in step 4 (and remove in Step 5) a scheme marker that Player B wanted to score with in Step 6.  Player B is out of luck in this case, because the scheme marker is removed before they can use it.

There's an inevitable "scheme chicken" timing issue for both players wanting the other player to choose which scheme to score first, which probably has an answer that Player 1 chooses first.  But that could use a one sentence errata.

 

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