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KID55

Marlena 17/5/2017

55 posts in this topic

with good student and master upgrade she will cost 9-10 ss and still she will do nothing:
-if u want cast sister in fury play it on ashe and cast it form child (4ss).

-in parker she can take highwayman or blackmarket (9ss) is ok i think
-in von shiel she can take (engage at will) (9ss)  i think it is not worth it

-in tara i don't see any upgrade she can take it

-Jack i think 1 curse more is fine i guess

-Hamelin -?

-levi. if u take alredy take 1 pariah upgrade u do not need the other 1.

creative salvage - i see that can help in levi but only levi remember u nead a 7+ mask on hand  to make doll; is it worth it ?

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I said already that Good Student is unnecessary.

Creative Salvage helps her because she needs scrap to summon and the only way to get it at present is to take Rusty Alyce with From Aether, or kill a Construct near her. One is 12 stones, the other crew dependent. With Creative Salvage she has three forms of inflicting damage "Teddy, Help!", Protector's Claws, and Entropic Withering, that if she manages to kill another model with she gains a scrap marker to summon from. Now whether it's worth spending a 7:mask on something is entirely academic if you don't have anything to summon from. It's like taking Nicodem and hoping that your opponent will provide the corpse markers you need to summon from.

Of course Alyce with From Aether can summon from scrap Marlena drops too, and she's popular in many crews.

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Nikodem can spend ss to ad suit for summon;  rasty alice with that upgrade cost 12ss +8 for marlena is 20 and with rasty alice with that same upgrade and joss it is only 2 stone more 3 if count pariah upgrade.

still that is only barely playable in levi and what about the other masters ?

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Does making her Lost in the Outcasts faction this late in the game have any real affect?  The only thing specifically Lost based is Hamelin's "Sewer King" upgrade which let's him Infiltrate 4 Lost models.... unless some other faction has a thing I'm not aware of?  (I only do Outcast & Ten Thunders)  Would it mean there will be other new Lost Targeting affects coming soon? 

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Her Lost status really just reflects what she is, a lost child. It really offers nothing in game terms.

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18 minutes ago, Freman said:

Her Lost status really just reflects what she is, a lost child. It really offers nothing in game terms.

Yet. Wyrd do like to bring in new status masters. This gives them the option.

 

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Maybe a bit OP, but what if Steadfast Protector was triggered when a model declared an action that would discard a friendly scheme marker and she was able, by discarding a card, to charge it? I mean some kind of "Welcome to malifaux" scheme-related. If it was a 0 to compete with Soul Tether?

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I like the Creative Salvage idea, and it kind of fits with her story too. What if Steadfast Protector's aura went down a bit and was friendly scheme markers can't be removed by enemy actions or abilities within range?

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6 hours ago, SurreyLee said:

Yet. Wyrd do like to bring in new status masters. This gives them the option.

 

Bangarang..... I'm down for that!  Whoops, did that slip out?

 

Instead of needing Scrapmarkers, generated or otherwise, let's turn the creepy narrative up a notch.  What if she was so lonely and pathetic that she makes her Wicked Doll friends out of pieces of herself.  Keep the Mask 7+ requirement, but she loses 1-2 wounds to do it, and she can only do it if she's above 3 wounds.  Ideally I would make it a 0 action also to compete with Soul Teather.  She's either making friends with the Leader or making friends with herself.

 

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I think she was always going to be 'Lost' unless she got a very strong story with one of the more human factions, and then she would've been hired by Hamelin, if the Outcasts hadn't taken a surprise victory in the end. [Again, and still unrelated to playtesting, if that ever opened up any further I'd expect for Collodi the other thief of children to be able to hire in Lost.]

2 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Instead of needing Scrapmarkers, generated or otherwise, let's turn the creepy narrative up a notch.  What if she was so lonely and pathetic that she makes her Wicked Doll friends out of pieces of herself.  Keep the Mask 7+ requirement, but she loses 1-2 wounds to do it, and she can only do it if she's above 3 wounds.  Ideally I would make it a 0 action also to compete with Soul Teather.  She's either making friends with the Leader or making friends with herself.

...:huh:

You are horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE people (and that's a really good idea)!

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At the moment she has to have a 7:mask, 1 AP, and a scrap marker to summon a Wicked Doll. Creative Salvage would provide a means of producing her own scrap, but would be dependent on her expending AP in order to kill models, either friendly (hire an Abomination, kill it for two scrap markers) or enemy. Over the course of a game I can see her, by her own efforts, getting maybe two or three dolls.

Making her summon a 0 that uses two wounds (one wound is too low for a summon, I think, but three would be too high given that she only has eight to start) and again with the 7:mask requirement, she can probably again get two or three Wicked Dolls over the course of the game. The advantage, if you have a 7:mask in your hand you can summon on the first turn, twisting the activation count in your favour. If you keep her close to your team healer, Doc or Librarian, and get a steady supply of :mask cards, you could pump out five Dolls over the course of the game. There is precedent. Both Karina's summon, and Rusty Alyce's From Aether summon are 0s, and Kirai uses wounds to summon, although she uses other people's. Perhaps a compromise where she can use a scrap marker or two wounds to summon from.

If we want to continue the theme of using her wounds to do stuff, we could put Sue's Hurt on the front of the card and allow her to take a wound to draw a card.

Soul Tether allows her to effectively trade her wounds to a Master so, similar thing.

On the other hand Quick Stitching, as it's written now, allows the fantasy that somehow she'll get enough scrap and :masks to summon ten Wicked Dolls over the course of a game. :)

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I was just thinking. Malifaux is a game built on tight little character driven narratives, and part of the reason I like Marlena is that at the moment she's the only one of our Wave 5 models with an actual story behind her. The others won't really become "characters" in our little stories until they're given a narrative of their own rather than being "generic plastic model on 30mm base".

A weakness of character driven rules is becoming too infatuated with the character, resulting in the desire to Mary Sue them. My personal feeling is that replacing Steadfast Protector with Creative Salvage would be a neutral change. Salvage would help her do what she does, but since the only summoners we have that use scrap are her, Alyce (with upgrade) and Leveticus (with upgrade hardly anyone takes) it is a limited benefit in our faction.

Making Quick Stitching a (0) that uses wounds would also be a neutral change in my opinion. It would probably be a bit stronger than the (1) using scrap, or at least more reliable as you only require the card, although it does have the opportunity cost of not being able to use Soul Tether. To be honest, given the choice, nine times out of ten (since my Master is rarely in harm's way) I'd just summon a Wicked Doll.

Thinking about it, that reliability is one reason why I don't think the (0) wound usage summon is a good idea. She is, when all is said and done, an eight stone enforcer. She's reasonably hitty, both in melee and at range, fairly durable as models at her points level go, and she has a useful, but resource dependent summon, and an ability that adds to the durability of your Master, at the expense of using up her wounds. Making her summon that reliable, even as a (0) might be just a tad too strong.

So my suggestions to change her are, "drop Steadfast Protector, add Creative Salvage, and make Entropic Withering Ca 6:tome". If you feel like she needs something else, try Rush of Magic.

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I agree with the idea of rush of magic, also arcane reservoir would be good...it fits her story as she seems to be a hoarder/repurposer and outcasts are typicly strapped for stones via small cache and expensive models. I think that would make her better worth her cost. (She competes with loads of other expensive models in faction, so she still wouldn't be an auto include)

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4 hours ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

I agree with the idea of rush of magic, also arcane reservoir would be good...it fits her story as she seems to be a hoarder/repurposer and outcasts are typicly strapped for stones via small cache and expensive models. I think that would make her better worth her cost. (She competes with loads of other expensive models in faction, so she still wouldn't be an auto include)

If she had Arcane Reservoir strapped to her card she would be an auto include in every outcast crew I make. Marlena doesn't need more passive abilities or she risks becoming a glorified 8ss upgrade, as others have said improve her cast so she is more useful in combat.

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Does anyone know if the wording on marlena's soul tether would stop a terracotta warrior (in a Levi crew) from taking the damage? Also, does armour work on it?

The reason I ask is because the wording says that Marlena takes wounds instead of saying she takes damage (are they the same thing?).

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I read "wounds" as saying that that's what she takes. Armour doesn't help. Likewise, since the Terracotta Warrior specifies "damage" it wouldn't be able to takes the wounds on her behalf.

I agree that Arcane Reservoir would be too much on top of the rest of the things she gets.

Perhaps a simplified version of Steadfast Protector: If an enemy action would remove a friendly scheme marker within :aura2" of this model, this model may discard a card to prevent the scheme marker being removed.

Front of Card would be

Df (:mask) "Teddy, Help!"

Armour +1

Steadfast Protector (as above)

Creative Salvage

Back of card

Protector's Claws

Entropic Withering Ca 6:tome

Quick Stitching

Soul Tether

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59 minutes ago, LexLock said:

Does anyone know if the wording on marlena's soul tether would stop a terracotta warrior (in a Levi crew) from taking the damage? Also, does armour work on it?

The reason I ask is because the wording says that Marlena takes wounds instead of saying she takes damage (are they the same thing?).

The usage of "suffers wounds" is curious and I would be adverse to any assumptions. It may be along the lines of the disparate wordings of bonuses to attack flips, or the differences in Hard to Kill wording for certain models, that comes out to the same thing in the end.

This is probably something that needs to be addressed to Aaron and company directly, rather than trying to draw a distinction between "suffers wounds" and "suffers damage" where none may exist.

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From the lack of any activity in this forum, can I assume that we're all pretty much agreed that the Outcast Wave 5 models are reasonably balanced as they appear now, hopefully with the minor addition of Creative Salvage to Marlena's card?

I would also add, "which cannot be reduced." to the damage taken by the Tethered Soul ability, just so we know that armour (or a Terracotta Warrior) doesn't help.

 

Hi @Mason

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On 5/19/2017 at 11:12 PM, LexLock said:

The reason I ask is because the wording says that Marlena takes wounds instead of saying she takes damage (are they the same thing?).

Every instance of wounds = damage will be fixed in this next update, once I get my grubby little hands on the cards again.

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I have to agree with Freman about Marlene- she feels almost alright but giving her Creative Salvage and maybe raising her Ca to respectable 6 would correct many of her issues.

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Oh, how I want her to be able to give out a suit, like Lenny in gremlins. Let not even masters. Gremlins are cheap powerful cheaters.

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3 minutes ago, KID55 said:

Oh, how I want her to be able to give out a suit, like Lenny in gremlins. Let not even masters. Gremlins are cheap powerful cheaters.

You just got the Freikorps engineer, who can do that! :P

Maybe that would have been a gremlin gift, but we'll never know...

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1 minute ago, Gnomezilla said:

You just got the Freikorps engineer, who can do that! :P

Maybe that would have been a gremlin gift, but we'll never know...

Rams it's good, but I want tomes or crows)

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1 hour ago, Gnomezilla said:

You just got the Freikorps engineer, who can do that! :P

Maybe that would have been a gremlin gift, but we'll never know...

Only gives rams to Freikorps models though!

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I would love to see her gain the ability to summon a abomination like levi.

After reading through the thread (particularly the rat puppet story) an idea came to me. What if she was given Creative Salvage as mentioned before but in place of Steadfast Protector she was given the ability to burn a wound or two to grant a suit to herself until the end of the turn?

That way any master that takes her will be able to gain use of her stitching ability and you'll be able to pull off any of her triggers for a price.

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