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CritterKiller32

Odd Duel Types (Not Ml, Sh, or Ca)

17 posts in this topic

A handful of models have non-standard duel types. I thought that Ml, Sh, and Ca types were all that existed, but the following models have other types:

Flying Piglet: Wk (Jaw-Dropping Amazement)
Bayou Smuggler: Wp (The Swap & Up Sheet's Creek)
Talos: Wp (Into the Furnace)
The Midnight Stalker: Wp ("Don't Come After Me")
Lampad: Wk (Hovering Flame)

Are these just typos and should really all just be "Ca"? If not, what are the implications, as the specified stat doesn't seem to play into the Action at all? They also get around Incorporeal protection and the like.

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1 minute ago, CritterKiller32 said:

A handful of models have non-standard duel types. I thought that Ml, Sh, and Ca types were all that existed, but the following models have other types:

Flying Piglet: Wk (Jaw-Dropping Amazement)
Bayou Smuggler: Wp (The Swap & Up Sheet's Creek)
Talos: Wp (Into the Furnace)
The Midnight Stalker: Wp ("Don't Come After Me")
Lampad: Wk (Hovering Flame)

Are these just typos and should really all just be "Ca"? If not, what are the implications, as the specified stat doesn't seem to play into the Action at all? They also get around Incorporeal protection and the like.

Pandora has a Wp since the core book

Dashel has a Wk duel in Ripples of Fate upgrade.

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Wk duels are scattered (Brutal Emissary's aura vs. Wk to gain slow) around previous waves but much more prevalent in newer models not ported from first edition, yes.

Wk duels seem to be partnered with effects that grant slow. I can almost guarantee Talos' bury duel is not Ca to differentiate it from the death marshal's bury. Bayou Smuggler I have no idea tho' I'm sure Wp-mechanic crews appreciate the difference.

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Just now, Gnomezilla said:

I can almost guarantee Talos' bury duel is not Ca to differentiate it from the death marshal's bury.

I`d say its to not allow Wp8 Hannah to copy it.

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Just now, trikk said:

I`d say its to not allow Wp8 Hannah to copy it.

And she can cause tons o' fun when copying death marshal's bury, can't she. ;)

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If it was Ca6 I`d say yes. DMs are Ca5 and are a lot easier to kill than Talos.

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3 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

Wk duels are scattered (Brutal Emissary's aura vs. Wk to gain slow) around previous waves but much more prevalent in newer models not ported from first edition, yes.

Wk duels seem to be partnered with effects that grant slow. I can almost guarantee Talos' bury duel is not Ca to differentiate it from the death marshal's bury. Bayou Smuggler I have no idea tho' I'm sure Wp-mechanic crews appreciate the difference.

It makes sense for duels that use the target's stat to resist (i.e. TN 10 Wk duels or Kaeris's Grab And Drop whose resist is Ht). I don't see the point in  having a (Wp 6 / Rst: Wp) Action, as it's already a Wp duel based on the resist type, unless it's just to stop some handful of "copy target Ca Action" effects.

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2 minutes ago, CritterKiller32 said:

It makes sense for duels that use the target's stat to resist (i.e. TN 10 Wk duels or Kaeris's Grab And Drop whose resist is Ht). I don't see the point in  having a (Wp 6 / Rst: Wp) Action, as it's already a Wp duel based on the resist type, unless it's just to stop some handful of "copy target Ca Action" effects.

Pandora gets a push if she wins a Wp duel. It also works with Oirans and similar buffs like El Mayor.

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1 minute ago, trikk said:

Pandora gets a push if she wins a Wp duel. It also works with Oirans and similar buffs.

But, if a (Wp 6 / Rst: Wp) Action was changed to (Ca 6 / Rst: Wp), that would have no effect on either of those outcomes, right? Its still a Wp duel for Pandora. I don't see how an Oiran's Appealing ability which give models +1 Wp interacts with the dual. Would it really increase the base Wp 6 duel to Wp 7?

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Just now, CritterKiller32 said:

But, if a (Wp 6 / Rst: Wp) Action was changed to (Ca 6 / Rst: Wp), that would have no effect on either of those outcomes, right? Its still a Wp duel for Pandora. I don't see how an Oiran's Appealing ability which give models +1 Wp interacts with the dual. Would it really increase the base Wp 6 duel to Wp 7?

Yes. It would. Nellie has the Incite action on Wp6 but if she gets El Mayor it becomes a Wp8 Incite.

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35 minutes ago, CritterKiller32 said:

? If not, what are the implications, as the specified stat doesn't seem to play into the Action at all?

You answered part of your question here:

36 minutes ago, CritterKiller32 said:

They also get around Incorporeal protection and the like.

They also just interact with buffs and penalties to their relevant stats. A model with a Wp-based attack standing near Old Cranky would get a +1 to their Wp which transfers across. The Flying Piglet can start its activation near Penelope to gain +1 Wk which transfers across. It's for thematic reasons I would imagine - Wk based attacks seem to be based on doing impressive tricks or catching up to people.

 

3 minutes ago, CritterKiller32 said:

But, if a (Wp 6 / Rst: Wp) Action was changed to (Ca 6 / Rst: Wp), that would have no effect on either of those outcomes, right? Its still a Wp duel for Pandora.

Not necessarily. If Pandora's Wp vs Wp attack was changed to Ca vs Wp it would no longer be a Wp duel for Pandora (you only look at the stat the model is using to determine what kind of duel it is).

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The important question, to me, is whether or not it's a problem to use those stats.

There are things in the game that give effects to certain types of duels, such as :-fate to Ca actions. These bypass that, but might be affected by other things. Importantly, all of these stats exist already, so it's just a question of whether the initial "wait, what?" outweighs the variance that is gained.

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1 minute ago, Aaron said:

The important question, to me, is whether or not it's a problem to use those stats.

There are things in the game that give effects to certain types of duels, such as :-fate to Ca actions. These bypass that, but might be affected by other things. Importantly, all of these stats exist already, so it's just a question of whether the initial "wait, what?" outweighs the variance that is gained.

I think it might lead to weird interactions sometimes. For example Changelings always have a stat of 4. But Zipp has a Ml 3 because he targets Height. So Changelings have a higher attack value than the original model. I know its not the case of Wp attacks but using different stats for Attack or Rst might sometimes lead to it.

Overall I think most of the times its fine.

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On 17/5/2017 at 0:14 PM, Aaron said:

The important question, to me, is whether or not it's a problem to use those stats.

There are things in the game that give effects to certain types of duels, such as :-fate to Ca actions. These bypass that, but might be affected by other things. Importantly, all of these stats exist already, so it's just a question of whether the initial "wait, what?" outweighs the variance that is gained.

I like these duels. From a fluff perspective they are awesome. I just love the idea behind the Kaeris attack against Ht for instance or the Wk duel clockwork traps impose. I think that as soon as they remain a minority, they are fine.

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On 2017-05-17 at 5:17 PM, trikk said:

I think it might lead to weird interactions sometimes. For example Changelings always have a stat of 4. But Zipp has a Ml 3 because he targets Height. So Changelings have a higher attack value than the original model. I know its not the case of Wp attacks but using different stats for Attack or Rst might sometimes lead to it.

Overall I think most of the times its fine.

More of a problem wih changelings not being worded to only lower and not higher the stat i that particular case. Could lead to other weirdness Iguess.

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I'm fine with having deuls of various stats. It does make Incorporeal even less reliable as a defensive trait, but that's been an issue for a while. The fluff feel from having variance and the mechanical leeway it allows are both positives in my opinion.

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