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Myyrä

Wrastler 5/17

29 posts in this topic

The new abilities seem really interesting, but also somewhat problematic.

Tap Out works even when Wrastler suffers damage from friendly models or falling (which is sort of wonderfully thematic if they charge down from a roof or something) but seems bit too powerful when it's that easy to control.

Hit Your With Anything seems fine otherwise, but the wording is unnecessarily verbose. It could just say "When this model ends the movement granted by a Charge, it may..." or something.
discard

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I agree Tap Out it seems very strong at the moment. 

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One good hit ought to smack 'em off the board if they're injured enough to require the protection--maybe make Tap Out require the enemy to discard a card to target, like Serena's 'A New Skin'?

And the new flavor gets full points for making me giggle.

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Tap Out really seems solid, but not OP definitely. This feller may well die from pulses, auras, blasts, abilities (Black Blood, given his Rg1) and actions that do not target, not to mention randomizing while shooting into combat.

I wonder if 'If this model suffers 3 or more damage from a single ENEMY Action' changes this ability significantly.

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2 hours ago, Myyrä said:

Hit Your With Anything seems fine otherwise, but the wording is unnecessarily verbose. It could just say "When this model ends the movement granted by a Charge, it may..." or something.
discard

I think (think) with the wording as is, you have the option of discarding a marker before you charge OR after you finishing moving for a charge. This makes it a little easier to set up the ability. If you are already in BtB with a marker you grab it before you move or if there is one near your target you charge into it and grab it there instead. 

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Tap out is also going make the wrastler immune to disengaging strikes. 

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27 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I think (think) with the wording as is, you have the option of discarding a marker before you charge OR after you finishing moving for a charge. This makes it a little easier to set up the ability. If you are already in BtB with a marker you grab it before you move or if there is one near your target you charge into it and grab it there instead. 

Oh, apparently I can't read very well.

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with tapout it states that it maynot be targeted by enemy models but you can always get another model to obey and swing on him or the bacon bomb affect would hurt him also

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I don't think Tap Out works from falling damage. The damage there comes from falling, not from the walk or charge action that walked off. I do think that hitting it with a 3 damage attack from your friendly might be a bit much, but I love the ability in itself. It's something new and weird that works nicely against big enemies without doing anything against smaller ones. It gives the Wrastler a bit more of a defined role, and I think it might be interesting to see even more of the "underdog" type angle, bonuses against expensive models? Something a bit like Yamaziko I guess?

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I think that if the idea is to be survibable for heavy beater, they should have hard to kill or similar because Gracie, Howard, Nekima, etc can kill you wiht a hit. 

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4 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

I don't think Tap Out works from falling damage. The damage there comes from falling, not from the walk or charge action that walked off. I do think that hitting it with a 3 damage attack from your friendly might be a bit much, but I love the ability in itself. It's something new and weird that works nicely against big enemies without doing anything against smaller ones. It gives the Wrastler a bit more of a defined role, and I think it might be interesting to see even more of the "underdog" type angle, bonuses against expensive models? Something a bit like Yamaziko I guess?

Definitely needs to be tested. I agree that I would exclude falling damage, and if you wanna hit your own 6wds model for half their wds...go ahead...also don't forget that 3 2-wds attacks still put him down in the blink of an eye.

I now see Wrastlers as competitive, also love the help with Hit You with Anything.

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2 minutes ago, Ikiwith said:

I think that if the idea is to be survibable for heavy beater, they should have hard to kill or similar because Gracie, Howard, Nekima, etc can kill you wiht a hit. 

Well, they would have to do 6wds in a single hit...that's at least moderate damage. This doesn't happen every time...not usually, at least.
I like this ability - it's thematic and grants them very good survivability.

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technically they can also be put down by a standard 2/3/4 damage curve in 2 hits still.  You just have to pace it right.    Hit for weak THEN severe.

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3 minutes ago, Clement said:

technically they can also be put down by a standard 2/3/4 damage curve in 2 hits still.  You just have to pace it right.    Hit for weak THEN severe.

For this reason Htk should be neccesary if you want  use tap out but first we need to test.

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The change to Hit you With Anything is a super nice quality of life buff.

Tap Out is an interesting add. Gonna need some testing, between healing them up and self triggering the condition. Might need a caused by enemy model clause.

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6 hours ago, Ikiwith said:

For this reason Htk should be neccesary if you want  use tap out but first we need to test.

I think the model has a very good defense as it is. Can it be killed in a single activation? indeed, but so do most models. His new trick lets him ruin a Howard, Nekhima, Archie or even Joss´ day. If he starts getting more and more survival tricks it is gonna be the end of the Survivors, who right now are not the best models in the game, but their upper hand is that are tanky for being gremlins. 

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I agree that Tap Out looks very nice yet not too powerful. Though I wouldn't be opposed to it being amended to only work when an enemy causes the damage but I doubt that it will be a problem even if friendlies can do it because it means an AP from a min damage 3 model and then you need to heal the Wrastler unless you are fine with it dying next turn.

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1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I agree that Tap Out looks very nice yet not too powerful. Though I wouldn't be opposed to it being amended to only work when an enemy causes the damage but I doubt that it will be a problem even if friendlies can do it because it means an AP from a min damage 3 model and then you need to heal the Wrastler unless you are fine with it dying next turn.

I agree, I'm not even a fan of dropping poison on my own models which only deals 1 damage a turn. I almost feel like if you can get a friendly hitting the Wrastler to work out as a net positive for you, you deserve it.

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10 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I agree, I'm not even a fan of dropping poison on my own models which only deals 1 damage a turn. I almost feel like if you can get a friendly hitting the Wrastler to work out as a net positive for you, you deserve it.

As I said, if one wants to drop 3Wds on his own model using a single blow (so with the likes of Burt or similar) he should be rewarded for it :D

I think most of us agree that Tap Out is a very nice way of giving a bit more survivability to the guy without overdoing it (also, in a thematic way, which never hurts).

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This is not relevant, but @Rosskov, I love your avatar.

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I wasn't sold on this at first - until I realized that now you can charge into position to burn the scheme marker for the attacks. That makes for some interesting play options. I really, REALLY don't think that Tap Out makes them OP at all. They're quite, quite killable. It doesn't protect against things like Blasts and other 'unpreventable' damage. He's still, IMO - quite, quite squishy.

My one main problem with him still is he's kinda slow when you put him up against other gremlins. Maybe Cg7 is the sweet spot? It'd give them a slight edge over a lightning bug at least with their charge distance, and differentiate their statline. After all, we also have slop haulers that charge 8 - why not the Wrastler cg7?

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10 hours ago, Palooka said:

My one main problem with him still is he's kinda slow when you put him up against other gremlins. Maybe Cg7 is the sweet spot? It'd give them a slight edge over a lightning bug at least with their charge distance, and differentiate their statline. After all, we also have slop haulers that charge 8 - why not the Wrastler cg7?

I believe that Cg 6 is what we have to pay for Diving Charge ability. Once in battle, these guys are more mobile than it seems. My playtests showed to main points: first, there's sometimes a problem to deliver Wrastlers into combat without being killed before. Lenny is pretty reliable here.

Second, you absolutely must charge with Wrastlers when the target is already engaged. I'm afraid, that's the only case when damage a Wrastler deals is worth 5ss. And, of course, two Wrastlers charging into one and the same mess of a combat make things twice better.

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Rules question - wrastler had tapped out, burt is targeted but slippery 's the attack onto the wrastler - what happens? 

 

I suspect the answer will be on burt's card but I just dropped all my cards in a puddle. In an indoor car park. In. Summer.  Gotta love Scottish weather. Fml. 

So I can't tell. 

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35 minutes ago, Rosskov said:

Rules question - wrastler had tapped out, burt is targeted but slippery 's the attack onto the wrastler - what happens?

He can't. Slippery has to shunt the attack onto a legal target. Because the Wrastler has the condition that doesn't let enemies target it, Burt can't Slippery out of this one.


EDIT: Incidentally, Slippery also doesn't work against charges because charge is a tactical, and the only legal target for tbe generated attacks is the target of the charge.

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