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Myyrä

Asura Roten 5/17

31 posts in this topic

I really dislike the change to Hands from Below. Obviously the duration can't stay as it currently is, because the model would be forever stuck with the condition if Asura dies, but that isn't even the only problem.

The ranges of Residents of Rottenburg and Hands from Below are so massive, that most Mindless Zombies on the table will be able to target the model they want to. Now that the condition lasts well into the next turn, Asura can pretty much shut down any Ml model permanently while dropping its Df to 1 if there are three or four Mindless Zombies on the table. Whether it is too powerful is debatable to an extent, but it definitely sounds like the most unfun experience ever to have your master be shut down by a bunch of Mindless Zombies.

I have pretty much always disliked static reductions to stats in this game, and this one seems really easy to cast, has no limit how high it will stack, and can be cast by models whose AP is essentially worthless.

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It's also a Ml 5 duel and requires an 8 SS "minder" model (Asura herself) to get off.  Compared to other static reduction abilities (Widow Weaver, brew master, Daydreams) at least this one gives you a credible shot at resisting in that your stats all reset back to full as soon as Asura activates.

 

I'd agree that the lack of "if Asura leaves play" language is a problem though.

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What did I miss, why was the Condition changed from until end of turn? 

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4 minutes ago, LordZombie said:

What did I miss, why was the Condition changed from until end of turn? 

Because the general consensus was that it was a ton of effort for not a lot of payout.  In a world where Hands from Below is competing with From the Quarantine Zone and *literally any other 1 AP action* for AP use, it inevitably lost.

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I guess I somewhat see the point with Hands having a 10" range and Residents having a 12" range. I find it odd that Hands is an Ml action, feels more like a Ca action. At any rate. We just need to change From the Qzone to an (0) action with the same limits as now and boom, fixed. lol

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maybe change Hands from Below to last until the end of the models next activation?

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Maybe -1 Ml  and -4 range will be enough cuddle for this... By the way, from the Gravedigger topic, i think Asura must be considered as Morty replacement, not the digger... 

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1 hour ago, wizuriel said:

maybe change Hands from Below to last until the end of the models next activation?

oooh. I like that change. It's basically a one activation de-buff then. Still strong, but you can't have it go over two activations without re-applying it.

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54 minutes ago, Alex Danev said:

By the way, from the Gravedigger topic, i think Asura must be considered as Morty replacement, not the digger... 

Morty is easy corpse generation and a chatty aura.   Asura doesn't really do either of those things well.   She's a useful buff piece for all undead instead.   Admittedly her summon "skips" having your master create mindless zombies, but needing a 6:crowinstead of 9 is a MUCH higher requirement in this faction full of crow hungry summoners.  The two would do fantastic work going together though if you're going all in on mindless zombie spam.

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Asura w/ Reva is pretty fun.  Reva's less crow hungry and those zombies are useful -- plus Asura gives those corpse candles some decent attacks.  I enjoyed how they interacted pretty well.  I was playing Mwahaha Reva (to make lots of scary zombies buffed by Asura) but Spare Parts would work pretty well too -- one the first turn, you'd be soulstoning, but if you have Asura summon a couple zombies, they can activate twice, then Reva can run up and turn them into Guild Autopsies.

That only works if your opponent isn't alpha striking you, but alpha striking into Reva is rightly terrifying -- I've had a lot of early turns with her with no possible targets, so I think Asura makes a nice summoning buddy for Reva, whether Reva has Mwahahah, Spare Parts, or is just using those zombies as attack vectors.

As for the grasping hands change -- perhaps cap it at -3 or something?  It's really only going to stack that high with Nicodem (so those zombies can walk and use grasping hands, or focus and use it,) and Nicodem doesn't really need any help (especially after getting Bone Piles to summon.)  

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I am really excited about this model, she seems really awesome, and I have huge expectations for the mini.

I like her Quarantine Zone markers use, as it does not scream huge debuffs nor cancells enemy positioning, so doesnt seem game breaking. By herself, she seems cool and powerful, capable of summoning (if you are not stone or crows starved), and good debuffing. She seems fragile but there is no need for her to be up the field. Her biggest selling point is her ability of letting other undead use her Ml actions... and here I fear a lot.

The undead minions attack is not that good by itself, as the damage track isnt supperb, but the built-in trigger can be a bit too much on every single model of your crew. Necropunks become even better scheme runners if they manage to punch with a 2/3/4 that can turnn you into a zombie. Maybe if the attack did not bring the swits printed on, it would be better? It can be acceptable, on many models you are loosing your poison triggers with the attack, so some times it ill not be worth it.

The real problem here is Hands from below. I am a bit worried, not only because it has a range of 10 so any model can start debuffing you from afar (igoring cover, shutting down scheme runners), not only because with all your activation advantage (she summons mindless zombies, if you kill someone with her attacks too) she will activate right when you want her to, but most importantly, the sarting low stat of the attack becomes better and better, as THE DEBUFF REDUCES DF!!! so, your mindless zombie managed to connect (maybe you had a canine remain to ensure that) but every time it becomes less complex for you!

Maybe if you had to discard a card to use Residents of rotterburg it would be less terrible with the right crew.

Maybe I am just over-reacting and the model is ballanced as it is. 

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Ressers have access to some of the lowest damage in the game, and access to the best utility in the game. That being said I feel like the Melee 7 is a non existant thing in the faction (Mortimer only LOL) i feel like if they made something to buff up the vast majority of our melee 4 and melee 5s to have this type of rebuff it would enable different comps of crews rather than the same old static stuff. I build my ressers crews with insane card cycle and plus flips, it's pretty strong but the second I get in combat with something with 7s or higher for the attack flip, I just lose the model that makes my list work, for 8-13 soulstones most factions can hire a cruise missile, I find her functionality to be the anti-cruise missle by putting so much debry in the way that a model even like Howard with nimble will be having problems taking out your core pieces, so all in all I see her as a model that gives out a single hand grenade per turn to ATTEMPT to blow the legs off the big scary monster. She is wonderfully designed and makes chaffe (mindless zombies, dogs etc.) Able to do their job better, she screams ressers utility and not overpowered, but makes you hyper aware of positioning. (Personally I wish the once per turn could be out of activation as I would use the Melee 5 to help out with disengaging strikes, if the Howard wanted to nimble to charge something more advantageous I could stop him with his defence 5, wasting his next AP on killing my chaff and not getting to his intended target this turn) 

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6 minutes ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

Melee 7 is a non existant thing in the faction (Mortimer only LOL)

Rogue Necromancy, Bag o' Tools Seamus.

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Ahh well Seamus needs a rework (why take him when you can reva? And the things he can do a 4ss crooligan can do with a better master) And the rogue necro is ok but I find him meh with my lists...he isn't an auto include like Francisco or Howard. He was my first master like many others getting into ressers but I won't use him anymore. But that's a topic for elsewhere (many conversations on a wyrd place about him being meh) 

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Posted (edited)

Now that I've had a chance to think about it and talk it over with a few people in my house, once per activation should be changed to once per turn, it weakens the power of reactivate but strengthens disengaging strikes! Win win!

Edited by 50 SS Enforcer

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Tried her again this weekend and was very much 'meh'. I would have been better off with just about any other model. If her abilities stay as written I think her summons needs to be a (0). You still can't do it more than once a turn even with MLH, so no worries there, but it opens up 1ap for her to actually move around as needed or just do something. As it is, since you want to try and summon each turn as that is part of her 'thing' you are stuck with 1AP a turn for her. 

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2 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Tried her again this weekend and was very much 'meh'. I would have been better off with just about any other model. If her abilities stay as written I think her summons needs to be a (0). You still can't do it more than once a turn even with MLH, so no worries there, but it opens up 1ap for her to actually move around as needed or just do something. As it is, since you want to try and summon each turn as that is part of her 'thing' you are stuck with 1AP a turn for her. 

Dont you find that 6:crow is too high a requirement for a 3 df 3 wound peon model? I guess that reva might abuse the fact that it pops where you want to. But spending soulstones with other masters in this seems painful to me. 

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I think that the spell is just about right simply due to the fact that being able to generate corpse markers for Resurrs is soooo good. If she was able to do it even easier, then I think it would be a problem. Take away the crow and you are pretty well guaranteed 5 MZs with little to no effort. Nicodem can turn that 1Ap from Asura into something nasty every turn. Reva gets even more control over her attack nodes. Other masters don't see as much use, but Seamus can summon more Belles and you can always take Toshiro or Sebastian for summoning. Make it too easy and I can see it snowballing fast. 

Plus it's a 3df, 3wnd model that can use Asura's hands from Below to debuff an enemy model. If any other change was needed, I might suggest allowing the MZ to chain activate after Asura finished her activation. That could be useful. 

I could see maybe lowering the TN so that you still need a Crow, but maybe a 4-5 instead of 6. Yes Nicodem is Crow hungry, but he doesn't care about low crows at all. 

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I agree with everything you said Paddywhack, except that TN could be lowered. 6 is what our masters need to summon 4 ss model, so it is perfectly justified for me that she, as a henchman, needs it to summon 3 ss model (also Karina needs that one point more to summon things). Summoning simply can't be that cheap&easy.

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That was more of 'if you really need to make it easier' suggestion. I'm not saying it needs to change. I'd rather see it change to a (0)

Correct me if I'm wrong as I don't have my card handy, but Nicodem needs at least an 8 to summon a 4SS model doesn't he? None of the Resurr masters can summon anything for a 6 (except Molly for the Necrotic Machine). Looking through CrewFaux the only master that summons that cheap is Ramos. I don't think lowering it a 5 of Crows would be over powered at all. 

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There is sebastian who is not a master but summons doggies full of wounds for just 6:crow (love it, so damn good) . I used to play it along with nico to save ap's for him :D

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Hmm instead of worrying about the card number or suit...how about she removes shambling on all MZ in play? They now have 2 AP, anywhere, even outside of nicos crews? Also I agree, her summon should be on a 0 that's once per turn.

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12 minutes ago, 50 SS Enforcer said:

Hmm instead of worrying about the card number or suit...how about she removes shambling on all MZ in play? They now have 2 AP, anywhere, even outside of nicos crews? Also I agree, her summon should be on a 0 that's once per turn.

I think that's a bit much. 2 AP MZs with a nice attack? Too much

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6 minutes ago, Daysleeper said:

I think that's a bit much. 2 AP MZs with a nice attack? Too much

A walk action and an attack...i find my MZ out of range for things I want to hit anyways...i don't see it as a big deal the malifaux child gives my viks +2 damage every turn....chances are they will hit for that IF they hit at all. And he is 1 SS less....

Edited by 50 SS Enforcer

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