Welcome to Wyrd Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more!

This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Rogue1

Thallarian Queller

74 posts in this topic

I don't want all references. I wanted good Guild ranged models. I also want to point out that Guild has surprisingly low amounts of nonmaster shooting that can ignore defensive abilities, like Mages, Silent Ones, Stitched Together, lightning Bugs, Izamu. So while other factions have models with Castings, we get a model that can give those out for an AP. 

 

Sprint is a very bad idea because you just make a walk if its not a mask.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the proper cost, though. It's not the right formula any more to roll everything into a bundle, assume infinite AP to use them all at all times, and then cost the lot. Now each piece of the model needs to be costed separately. Has it got a debuff marker worth 6ss? Compare Freikorps librarian aura at 7ss. Has it got a debuff action worth 6ss? Yes, exactly. Buff action?...No, that's only 5ss worth if that (Glowy, as ever, skewing the overall value of ignoring defenses). It still averages out to 6ss especially with current defenses added in.

Also you cannot assume we'll have the cards to discard. Guild IS NOT a card draw faction. Discard 1 per AP will NOT be replenished by mid-turn.

@Jinn it's hard to quote on the phone while writing but why won't standing on the marker block LoS and thus block the aura now? I thought that was the counter-play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A humble suggestion for both sides of dispute: maybe you should play 4-5 games with him and then come back here with opinions grounded in empirical experience rather than theoretical speculation, and share them in friendly atmosphere of mutual appreciation? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Markers don't need LoS as its "within 3" " and not 3:aura. I find it a good idea if the markers feel too strong.

 

@thatlatinspeakingguy I played 2 or 3 already :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Gnomezilla Currently the wording says that the marker strips suits from all enemy models within 3". No mention of LoS or rules that require LoS such as auras. This is my understanding of the rules surrounding that wording, I may be wrong.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would the best solution be to add a way for the opponent to spend resources to remove the area suppression? 

(1) Area Suppression (Ca 5 / TN: 8t / Rg: 12): Place a 30mm Suppression Marker within range. Enemy models within 3" of a friendly Suppression Marker lose all suits printed on Ml, Sh, Ca, Df, and Wp Actions. If there are three friendly Suppression Markers in play, choose and remove a friendly Suppression Marker. Enemy models can take a (1) interact to remove the marker.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wizuriel said:

Would the best solution be to add a way for the opponent to spend resources to remove the area suppression? 

(1) Area Suppression (Ca 5 / TN: 8t / Rg: 12): Place a 30mm Suppression Marker within range. Enemy models within 3" of a friendly Suppression Marker lose all suits printed on Ml, Sh, Ca, Df, and Wp Actions. If there are three friendly Suppression Markers in play, choose and remove a friendly Suppression Marker. Enemy models can take a (1) interact to remove the marker.

 

That could work, but I think the TN should lose the suit requirement in that case.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And it needs a range requirement because right now you can ingeract on the other side of the table ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

A humble suggestion for both sides of dispute: maybe you should play 4-5 games with him and then come back here with opinions grounded in empirical experience rather than theoretical speculation, and share them in friendly atmosphere of mutual appreciation? ;)

I saw this more as a debate (comparing points of view) than a dispute.

I thought I was respectful. If I was not I apologize. English is not my native language.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it needs to lose the :tome as it is still an ability you can place at a pretty good range including right next to other models or markers (which a lot of abilities like this don't let you do).

(1) Area Suppression (Ca 5 / TN: 8t / Rg: 12): Place a 30mm Suppression Marker within range. Enemy models within 3" of a friendly Suppression Marker lose all suits printed on Ml, Sh, Ca, Df, and Wp Actions. If there are three friendly Suppression Markers in play, choose and remove a friendly Suppression Marker. Enemy models in base contact to the suppression marker can take a (1) interact to remove the marker.

 

I just fear there isn't enough card space to add that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the TN should go up but lose the suit requirement. There 5-7 cards that are practically usable for this action. Taking it down with 1 interact doesn't seem fair. Either do it (2) interact or make it require a 6 with no suits

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, trikk said:

I think the TN should go up but lose the suit requirement. There 5-7 cards that are practically usable for this action. Taking it down with 1 interact doesn't seem fair

technically there are 11 cards that would work. If it is unsuited imo it is going need a high card to go off (thinking at least 9+). Having to be in base to base and take an interact is most likely going eat up 2 AP for the opponent (unless you place the suppression in base to base with an unactivated enemy model) and interacts usually aren't hard actions to try and prevent. 

I could see it being TN 11 :tome or :mask

So need at least a moderate card, but your chances of it going off goes up to 15 / 54

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you drop a 13 for the marker? I wouldn't. Thats why I said practically its 5-7.

You still don't have to remove it because it probably affects 2-3 models in your crow top. Those 3 models have to be in range and can most likely just walk away

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, trikk said:

Would you drop a 13 for the marker? I wouldn't. Thats why I said practically its 5-7.

You still don't have to remove it because it probably affects 2-3 models in your crow top. Those 3 models have to be in range and can most likely just walk away

It really depends on the right circumstances. If I'm going for an assassination attempt against Ironside for instances I would probably spend a 13:tome to prevent her DF trigger (or at least make it harder for her to get it).

 

The way it is right now though I wouldn't really hesitate to drop one of these on stash markers or informant markers for those strats that the opponent needs to be in a certain place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It also depends on your hand because if thats your only face card I'd use it for something else to be honest. Also ditching a 13 is a big investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, yool1981 said:

Imho it does not need to be exceptional if it ignores damage reduction (a severe of 4 against an incorporeal model normally deals 2 damages whereas it deals 4 with an enchanted gun, a lot of incorporeal models have 3-4 Wd).

Like Night terrors, seishin and...

There is a widly held belief that Incorporial models have low wounds. Its not really that true, Incorporial models average wounds equal to their ss cost, just like pretty much any other defence. 

There is also the belief that ignoring incorporeal doubles your damage. Its close but not really that close. And it has least effect against low damage attacks. (

 

I think the queller is very annoying to a small number of models (largely summoners, but a few other with TN actions). Its slightly annoying to models that rely on Df triggers that they have built in. 

I think it fits into the guilds anti opponent style, and the basics seem there. I'm not sure if its too strong, but I think a lot of the time the model that relied on attached suits for the actions could walk away and then take the action. Interesting meta choice at the moment, that makes his opponents think a little more carefully about what tehy do. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wizuriel said:

It really depends on the right circumstances. If I'm going for an assassination attempt against Ironside for instances I would probably spend a 13:tome to prevent her DF trigger (or at least make it harder for her to get it).

Looking over this ability, the marker won't actually set up an assassination run too well.   "Enemy models within 3" of a friendly Suppression Marker
lose all suits printed on Ml, Sh, Ca, Df, and Wp Actions."   Emphasis mine.   It won't turn off suits on defense, only offense.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Clement said:

Looking over this ability, the marker won't actually set up an assassination run too well.   "Enemy models within 3" of a friendly Suppression Marker
lose all suits printed on Ml, Sh, Ca, Df, and Wp Actions."   Emphasis mine.   It won't turn off suits on defense, only offense.

That is a good catch.

so pretty much won't work on any abilities either which most DF/WP triggers are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good catch. Unfortunately it makes him a lot worse :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Related:  Does anyone know a model with a Df Action?   I can't think of any, but I only know a few with a WP action as it is (Pandora is a prime example) so I'm just not sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Clement said:

Related:  Does anyone know a model with a Df Action?   I can't think of any, but I only know a few with a WP action as it is (Pandora is a prime example) so I'm just not sure.

None come to mind...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Clement said:

Looking over this ability, the marker won't actually set up an assassination run too well.   "Enemy models within 3" of a friendly Suppression Marker
lose all suits printed on Ml, Sh, Ca, Df, and Wp Actions."   Emphasis mine.   It won't turn off suits on defense, only offense.

That seems stupid. I wonder if it's intentional...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

That seems stupid. I wonder if it's intentional...

There are some wp actions, maybe this is a preparation for 6th book or new story encounter or something

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would still make no sense and be a lot weaker than we expected ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.