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Titania's box - Feelings after a few tests


yool1981

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So I have run a few tests with the Queen and her followers.

I came to a conclusion that seems to be shared by a certain number of players that this box set is aesthetically awesome and ruelwise underwhelming.

Titania

I feel that she does not have enough presence on the board and that her upgrades are really lackluster. Additionally, she is extremely dependant on the available scheme pool (more than other masters).

I think that the Queen's champion should allow a rotation of the upgrade between the crew members (on a killing or dying condition, or using a 1AP action on Titania's card). For 2SS it requires too much work to get onto the right model and is lost if the model dies. Compared to the upgrades of the other masters of the faction, this upgrade is really lackluster.

Forest claims all is short ranged and very situational. On paper it's great but in practice, it has rarely been able to rival with Fears given form or Aether connection. Maybe increasing the range to 6" would help.

Her short range abilities make her want to go into the fray but she really is not that survivable. I would tend to think that Behold my glory should be a Rg 12 attack action in itself, without damage (it is after all, Titania's bewitch ability).

Aeslyn

I want to like this henchman but she is just overcosted.

I feel that if she lost the projectile icon on her Rg10 action and if her 0 action against Ca was on par with Sue's, she would get more play.

The Thorn

Nothing to say she is perfectly costed and very useful.

The Claw

On paper I liked him but after a few games, I found that he was overcosted. If he had Martyr for other Faes and triggers built in then he might see play.

The Tooth

Really a poor use of 7SS imho. I have no idea how to improve her in a way that she does not overlap with the 2 other knights.

Gorar

This totem is very difficult to use and too pricey for what it actually does. His ability to resurrect should be easier to trigger (without him being too close to the action) and he should have useful things to do with his AP.

I think it should have a 4 to 5 SS cost, have no placement condition for the resurrection to happen (or a placement condition related to the crew's master or henchman), be significant & minion, have CA5 on his attacks (or at least "A wicked silence attack").

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from another topic about 2 or 3 down from this:

 

I won at a small tourney yesterday using Titania all day.

base crew is

Titania - taproot, the forest claims all, wings of darkness

aeslin - malifaux provides

2 rougaru and the 3 autumn knights

 

the sheer amount of scheme markers, plus healing from titania triggers etc made the crew really durable and easy to score most schemes.

also the combo of the tooth and 2 rougarou is pretty horrendous (can get 11 attacks all told on the tooths activation from the 3 models) taking out killjoy in turn 1

I will be replacing aeslin with the emmisary though as it can help all the minions and aeslin generally didnt do huge amounts throughout.

 

Titania did really well for me in the middle of it all, especially with fairy squeel(taproot) and the amount of scheme markers. being impossible to wound, having healing etc and throwing out attacks that can heal her support was useful. also she was carrying the forest claims all, all day and if shes in the mix then that 4" can do alot of card drain for opponents or more scheme markers for you.

Aeslin admittedly didnt do alot and when I get the emmisary she is going in. the :ranged on her attack does nueter her a little.

The Tooth, with rougarou as shown above is pretty insane and is fast becoming a priority target for opponents.

The Thorn I agree is very useful

The Claw is ok, does his points worth and if you can put a negative on Df flips its useful, probably the least useful of the 3 though.

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6 minutes ago, katadder said:

also the combo of the tooth and 2 rougarou is pretty horrendous (can get 11 attacks all told on the tooths activation from the 3 models) taking out killjoy in turn 1

Hahaha, so the "Why play TT?" thread really made an impression on you :D:D:D 

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yeah pretty much, worked to great effect and even really hurt a huggy so much that he killed The Tooth but was killed after by rougarou and Titania. 

she also works well as a frame for murder target as if people engage her through being pulled in they tend to kill her (assuming they survive) as couldnt get the combo off against a reva crew but she still caused issues and died. fast becoming one of my favourite of the autumn knights

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Thx for the feedback, I have seen the topic below but I did not want to polute advices with judgement about model stats so I opened a separate topic.

We agree on Aeslyn & Claw. I suppose we agree on the Totem.

Having tested the refs with other masters, Aeslyn & Claw are even poorer.

About Titania, don't you have the feeling you could exchange her with other masters, keep the same crew and do as well or better? Because that is the feeling I have with her, I tend to think "why not Lilith" or "why not Collodi". Granted they have less durability but AP generation, denial and tricks tend to help more than healing, impossible to wound and Df5.

I find her crew does most of the work anyway, hence my assertion that she is lackluster.

I don't have the Rougarou available so I can't say. I will test them as soon as I can get them.

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titania's box really isnt that bad once you realize that your going to have to rely on scheme markers to get the most out of it. 

titania and aeslin really need alot of scheme markers to shine. aeslin herself is nice for her anti-push aura and needing a scheme marker to avoid randomizing isnt that bad and having casting expert is a nice bonus. titania and aeslin can both heal off scheme markers, however aeslin does need the malifaux provides upgrade. also despite titania looking like a close combat master, she is unable to do stuff alone without getting a focused beatdown.

the knights overall are pretty good, cant say much for claw though. 

as for the gorar, its really just there for getting back tooth/thorn/rougarou if your doing the pounce stuff, otherwise i go with the puke worm

now when i had first played this crew i went with the entire box plus 2-3 gupp swarms, and the dmg output from titania and aeslin was pretty good due to the gupps cranking out schemes which allowed me to take different triggers on the knights. however i did notice that i had a tendency to get bogged down in midfield. because of this i had to make sure i picked schemes that were either killy or took advantage of the midfield.

then once i got familiar with the crew i branched out to take advantage of the pounce tactics with the twins and had quite a bit of fun with that.

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With rougaru having hard to kill I don't think the other masters could support them as well as titania handing out damage whilst healing hard to kill friends.

She can also get a 4/5/6 damage track quite easily at ranges upto 8 ignoring cover and models in combat.

Maybe they could do as well but I am liking the fae crew and their fairy squeal to ignore flurry and charges no matter the outcome of original attack.

Pandora would probably do well due to all the wp tests the fae bring too 

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18 hours ago, HydroMog said:

titania's box really isnt that bad once you realize that your going to have to rely on scheme markers to get the most out of it. 

It is not that it is bad, it is just that I find the overall AP efficiency to be lower than other crews.

Unless there is an extremely specific scheme pool, I do not think I will use Titania in a tournament over the other choices of the faction.

18 hours ago, katadder said:

With rougaru having hard to kill I don't think the other masters could support them as well as titania handing out damage whilst healing hard to kill friends.

I'd say fast/armour or an illusionnary forest can go a long way.

18 hours ago, katadder said:

She can also get a 4/5/6 damage track quite easily at ranges upto 8 ignoring cover and models in combat.

Yes but this damage track is only available after having spent AP for the markers or having had to use low damage attacks to put markers down. And then these markers are lost for the schemes. This is imho not very AP efficient.

18 hours ago, katadder said:

Maybe they could do as well but I am liking the fae crew and their fairy squeal to ignore flurry and charges no matter the outcome of original attack.

Yep fairly squeel is cool I agree.

 

18 hours ago, katadder said:

Pandora would probably do well due to all the wp tests the fae bring too 

Pandora would also do a lot more for the crew by messing up with the opponent's activation control and/or paralyzing the opposing models.

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as some of the knights and aeslin put down markers you really are not lacking for them. also having the forest claims all I tend to find a fair few markers in Titanias vicinity when fighting. either that or your opponent has drained his hand.

each to their own as with all masters but I am really like Titanias playstyle the more I get used to it (and remember all the start of activation stuff her crew has)

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Like any master she has scheme pools and strategies where her abilities are going to make her a strong choice.

I don't view many masters as being able to handle every strategy with any scheme pool those that might get also get close to jack of all trades master of none.

I've personally had great use out the crew box though I have an off again on again relationship with her totem.

I've presently only used her 6-7 times mixing her crew box in with changelings, waldgiest and the emissary.

The tooth and the claw have to be my preferred Knights and I look forward to her hunting dogs release.

My success with her has been  based on hand drain (fgf on both her and Aeslin + built in (x) abilities) and of course positioning/repositioning abilities from the Knights. 

So she runs a "little" like Pandora as an area of effect generator but is better suited to scheme pools with a heavier reliance on scheme markers and positioning rather than all out damage.

Perhaps do some battle reports and get feedback as to where things aren't working for you.

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Just finished up a run in NB where Titania was my master of choice more often than not (painting her crew was the reason for dipping my toes into NB, so I probably played her in some games that my other available masters, Lilith and Lynch, could have done the job better/differently.)

 

Any time there were Dig their graves/set up/ffm in the pool, her base crew was my go to choice. Aeslin only made it a couple times, I can't disagree she's a little too costly for the result, but the anti-push aura did catch people off guard a time or two. The knights, I'd take two almost always, three almost never. Which two jumped around a lot, they all have uses depending on strats/schemes/my general plan. The attack on Tooth as part of her pull made me not use it as often as the other two by a large margin, but there are times it's worth it.

Gorar was taken every time, somewhat because I get tired of 'must take' models crazy quick. I'd say I brought a model back using him about 60-70% of the time, with the other times my opponent spending activations & positioning to take him out first, which if they wanted to do I was fine with.

Queen's Champion almost never. NB beaters are already well established good, I never much saw the point of adding 2 SS of cost for the benefit, especially when you had to force specific things to get it on the model you wanted. Even if you go in not caring which beater it gets on, just thumbing through the book, how man of those guys are you willing to pay 2 stones more for to get those buffs? Beyond willing to, is it necessary? Moreso than those 2 SS going elsewhere and taking up a slot of a different upgrade?

Titania/barbaros are a great lock down combo. Barbaros is zone defense and titania is more specific target, saving just the model you need from certain doom and destruction. Her positional game is great when you include the right upgrades, which you should. You want her up near, if not exactly in the thickest part of, the action anyway for the auras. Make an effort to heal back whatever first damage she takes from the enemy quickly by getting scheme markers dropped and many people immediately put her in the 'not worth the effort' category, precisely because she's not the deadliest or most controlling. In this faction where there are loads of stand out models, she's able to be a bit of a generalist. and flight 6 lets her get where you need something to be. She doesn't have that one thing she does crazy well, but combined with those knights she can shine very brightly. Definitely a whole is greater than the sum kind of situation.

In a faction of stand out masters, she has a tough time looking as good as them on paper. In game for the right kind of player she can groove.

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14 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

Like any master she has scheme pools and strategies where her abilities are going to make her a strong choice.

Yes but hers is quite limited imho.

14 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

I don't view many masters as being able to handle every strategy with any scheme pool those that might get also get close to jack of all trades master of none.

Some are more versatile than others. In faction, I can think of Lilith as being able to do well in many circumstances. Collodi can be adaptable although he will probably favour strategies where the crew members stay close to each others. Zoraida has a wide range of strategies and schemes available. Lynch also.

This is for the masters I know and play. For me, Titania is the most limited in her scheme pool.

This is only comparing in faction. If I compare with other Wave 4 masters, I find she is the most niche in her optimization.

14 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

My success with her has been  based on hand drain (fgf on both her and Aeslin + built in (x) abilities) and of course positioning/repositioning abilities from the Knights. 

This is strong but imho, if you change your master, this will be even stronger.

The strongest situation I reached was with Tooth, Barbaros FgF+CHallenge on, Aeslyn with fgf. This drains a lot of cards from your opponent's hand, especially if there is a melee in the centre.

Aeslyn is a bit below the curve though, she may be replaced with another henchman with fgf & terrifying with a similar effect.

14 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

So she runs a "little" like Pandora as an area of effect generator but is better suited to scheme pools with a heavier reliance on scheme markers and positioning rather than all out damage

If you take Pandora with the same crew, isn't she performing at least as well as Titania?

14 hours ago, Vorschlag said:

Perhaps do some battle reports and get feedback as to where things aren't working for you.

It is not that things are not working. I won my last game 6-2 with Titania. However, I can't shake the feeling that I would be a lot better with the same crew and another master.

Additionally, I have done quite a few tests on the references of her box with other masters and, except for the Tooth, I always can find better to do with my SS.

Imho, Aeslyn would have a place in many crews if she lost the projectile icon on her attack and if her counterspell aura was more efficient.

But maybe this is just me liking to play with a crew in which I optimize every single SS I spend.

13 hours ago, Rob Lo said:

Queen's Champion almost never. NB beaters are already well established good, I never much saw the point of adding 2 SS of cost for the benefit, especially when you had to force specific things to get it on the model you wanted. Even if you go in not caring which beater it gets on, just thumbing through the book, how man of those guys are you willing to pay 2 stones more for to get those buffs? Beyond willing to, is it necessary? Moreso than those 2 SS going elsewhere and taking up a slot of a different upgrade?

I wholeheartedly agree.

13 hours ago, Rob Lo said:

In a faction of stand out masters, she has a tough time looking as good as them on paper. In game for the right kind of player she can groove.

This is also what I like in Malifaux that there are different options for everbody.

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