Why play Ten Thunders

[Ludvig]

Sometimrs people misread abilities. There are a few pushes where you must push the entire distance but I believe "up to X" is the most common.

[skoatz]

19 hours ago, whodares said:

I agree with you. TT Lynch is very consistent thanks to Sensei Yu copying his Mulligan. Do note this dependency might force you to activate Yu earlier than expected and can bring their own share of problems.

The thing that makes Neverborn Lynch more dangerous in my opinion, is the fact that they have more and better lures combined with pounces. Yes, you can get a Thunders beatstick and make Huggy obey the opponents model to walk next to him. Now your model activates and that threat is gone for the turn. With the better lures in Neverborn, you can combo those with a Rougarou or Lelu and keep pouncing on those things. Bonus points if Lilitu is the one luring as she will get pounce as well from Lelu on a 4'!!! range. You can also lure 2 models towards you and set them up for death as the hands of Lynch and/or Huggy more easily. While also doable in Ten Thunders, I do feel the beckoners are inferior to what the Neverborn faction has to offer in this regard.

Going through your entire deck can also have it's downsides. You'll get more black and red jokers. Nobody likes getting a black joker. Red joker can be great, but should not be depended upon for getting things done. You have the mulligan to get more high cards, but that usually means you'll have to cheat more as well. At least you get more control on when/what to force, which is very powerful.

 

But again, I agree with you that Lynch is not a bad master. While I feel the Thunders allow him to be used more broadly, I also feel that it limits his power a bit on what he can achieve. The pushes and positioning are strong thanks to Yu, but you could just as easily get lured away due to being too far ahead. In Neverborn, you don't even have to move Lynch, you can just bring the models to you! This might be less of a problem when you are a more experienced player ofcourse. I've only been playing for a year, so that might also have to do with it.

I've read through this entire thread, and it really just sounds like you don't like the Ten Thunders playstyle in general.  You prefer playing Lynch as Neverborn, and that's great.  That playstyle suits you.  There have been a lot of suggestions on how to change the way you play TT masters, but almost all of them have been shot down.  So I'm not sure what to tell you.  You seem pretty set on the idea that TT isn't good.  And that's fine.  Neverborn sounds like it's your jam.  It's a fun faction.

[santaclaws01]

5 hours ago, katadder said:

I agree but with the 8" range its likely they will be base to base after even just the lure so just one pounce, not 3 like the OP seems to suggest at one point.

Gorar has to be within 6" of the centre, I dont see anything that fragile surviving there for any length of time.

Tooth's push built into her attack is up to 4" away. So it's 8" towards with the challange, then 3 pushes up to 4" away each, with each pus being so small as to not bring the target out of range of either the Rougarou or Tooth.

[Eclipse]

To answer the question posed as a title for this thread:
Play Ten Thunders because you enjoy the faction.
Play Ten Thunders because you like the look and/or feel of (most of) the models.
Play Ten Thunders because you enjoy having a great deal of pushes, healing, condition removal and  flips.
Finally, play Ten Thunders only if the above is at least mostly true. It is better to take a rest from Thunders if don't enjoy your games with them anymore, or if you are feeling more extreme - it's better to outright switch factions. Regardless, all the decisions are yours.

For me the process worked the other way around - when starting I picked my first box only based on the artstyle. I was choosing between Lynch, Misaki and Yan Lo with a consideration for Pandora (Sorrows!) in this order. I picked Lynch after learning that I can expand into Thunders later if I want to. However, I really liked the Neverborn look and feel so I stuck to them for quite a while. It wasn't until a guy decided to sell his McGabe, Fuhatsu and Samurai that I remembered how much I liked the faction. McGabe did not click with me, but Fuhatsu and the Samurai did - crazy-silly gun-toting card-flipping action. Then I looked at the other Masters and models and upgrades and I -knew- this was the faction. After that my Thunders collection quickly became even bigger then the Neverborn one and I gradually lost interest in playing as anything other than Thunders, even going so far as to stop playing my favorite Master, Lucius.

With Thunders I find that I am having fun almost always, regardless of winning or losing - usually whatever I do with them feels just right and so I don't get stressed when playing them.
Of course, having a positive attitude, a change of scenery (opponents/crews), and/or a short rest from burn-out always help as well

[Mutter]

17 hours ago, skoatz said:

I've read through this entire thread, and it really just sounds like you don't like the Ten Thunders playstyle in general.  You prefer playing Lynch as Neverborn, and that's great.  That playstyle suits you.  There have been a lot of suggestions on how to change the way you play TT masters, but almost all of them have been shot down.  So I'm not sure what to tell you.  You seem pretty set on the idea that TT isn't good.  And that's fine.  Neverborn sounds like it's your jam.  It's a fun faction.

This.

It really is a testament to the patience of this board that people still try to answer the OP after what, 5 pages? I gave up on the first ...

Kudos to anybody who's still trying to help.

[whodares]

8 hours ago, Mutter said:

This.

It really is a testament to the patience of this board that people still try to answer the OP after what, 5 pages? I gave up on the first ...

Kudos to anybody who's still trying to help.

I would take this as valid criticism if your only post in the topic wasn't just filled with "where to start" and then propose to bring 2 LRM in a single crew...

As for the rest I've already said I'm going to be playing Neverborn. I gave my view on a Lynch crew opposed to a crew on the Thunders side. It shows that the Thunders prefer to move towards things themselves instead of moving things towards themselves.

9 hours ago, Eclipse said:

To answer the question posed as a title for this thread:
Play Ten Thunders because you enjoy the faction.
Play Ten Thunders because you like the look and/or feel of (most of) the models.
Play Ten Thunders because you enjoy having a great deal of pushes, healing, condition removal and  flips.
Finally, play Ten Thunders only if the above is at least mostly true. It is better to take a rest from Thunders if don't enjoy your games with them anymore, or if you are feeling more extreme - it's better to outright switch factions. Regardless, all the decisions are yours.

For me the process worked the other way around - when starting I picked my first box only based on the artstyle. I was choosing between Lynch, Misaki and Yan Lo with a consideration for Pandora (Sorrows!) in this order. I picked Lynch after learning that I can expand into Thunders later if I want to. However, I really liked the Neverborn look and feel so I stuck to them for quite a while. It wasn't until a guy decided to sell his McGabe, Fuhatsu and Samurai that I remembered how much I liked the faction. McGabe did not click with me, but Fuhatsu and the Samurai did - crazy-silly gun-toting card-flipping action. Then I looked at the other Masters and models and upgrades and I -knew- this was the faction. After that my Thunders collection quickly became even bigger then the Neverborn one and I gradually lost interest in playing as anything other than Thunders, even going so far as to stop playing my favorite Master, Lucius.

With Thunders I find that I am having fun almost always, regardless of winning or losing - usually whatever I do with them feels just right and so I don't get stressed when playing them.
Of course, having a positive attitude, a change of scenery (opponents/crews), and/or a short rest from burn-out always help as well

While I do enjoy some aspects of the faction, I feel the faction itself is lacking in a certain way. The only thing the Thunders have going for them compared to the other factions is that they have more mobility. Well, it depends on what type of mobility if you see Lure as mobility as well.

I do like the Asian look of the models and this is what originally drew me to them. I made the mistake of starting with Shenlong, waaayyyyy too complex for a person new to wargaming.

Can't really argue with that. While we have easier ways of pushes, healing, condition removal, my playstyle prefers to deal a ton of damage instead of having the healing option. There's not much to heal if it's dead. There's not much to scheme if it's dead.

Not sure on how Thunders have easier access to + flips outside of a Shenlong crew and therefore sacrificing a 0-action of themselves. While many masters and their crew have access to + flips, most of those masters are also available in other factions. I'll agree with you if you meant that we have the highest concentration of possible crews that have access to + flips. Pretty much every Thunders crew can and will get + flips, which is in stark contrast with the other factions. The downside to all those extra + flips is that our faction has a low minimum damage as average and they really need those + flips to really be able to compete with other factions when it comes to damage. I'm not saying all our models have low damage, but most of them do.

And I'll repeat again, I'm switching to neverborn so I hope I can find out what I'm missing out on by not playing the Thunders or what possible strengths I've been overlooking or miscrediting.

[Ludvig]

@whodares sounds like you should come hang on the guild boards. Lots of min damage 5 and few pushes ompared to others.

[whodares]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

@whodares sounds like you should come hang on the guild boards. Lots of min damage 5 and few pushes ompared to others.

I noticed a lot of damage when I played against Lady J :'(

I like dealing damage, not taking damage

[katadder]

On 03/05/2017 at 3:46 PM, Ludvig said:

Within 8" you lure them close for pounce. Then you hit with the (1) attack pushing it a millimeter for another pounce. Hit again and push a millimeter for another pounce. Haven't doublechecked the card but if the push on the normal attack is "up to X" that should be totally legit.

my bad, didnt have my books/cards when replying so didnt realise she pushed away with her attack. something I will have to do with my 2 rougarou and the tooth now then  

[whodares]

1 hour ago, katadder said:

my 2 rougarou and the tooth

*triggered*

 

You monster!

 

For bonus points bring the Emissary with the default Conflux for extra + flips on all those attacks ^^

If you're already spending 21 stones for such a combo, you might as well go all-out on it

[Ludvig]

3 hours ago, whodares said:

I noticed a lot of damage when I played against Lady J :'(

I like dealing damage, not taking damage

That's why you should give the guild a spin. Peacekeeper with debt to the guild is min 5 (6 if you flip a ram) almost all the henchmen are min 3, with the possibility of debt to the guild and a stone so min 5 (min 6 with a flipped ram). Same problem as TT with being more elite so often outnumbered and sometimes outgunned.  

[Eclipse]

16 hours ago, whodares said:

I would take this as valid criticism if your only post in the topic wasn't just filled with "where to start" and then propose to bring 2 LRM in a single crew...

As for the rest I've already said I'm going to be playing Neverborn. I gave my view on a Lynch crew opposed to a crew on the Thunders side. It shows that the Thunders prefer to move towards things themselves instead of moving things towards themselves.

While I do enjoy some aspects of the faction, I feel the faction itself is lacking in a certain way. The only thing the Thunders have going for them compared to the other factions is that they have more mobility. Well, it depends on what type of mobility if you see Lure as mobility as well.

I do like the Asian look of the models and this is what originally drew me to them. I made the mistake of starting with Shenlong, waaayyyyy too complex for a person new to wargaming.

Can't really argue with that. While we have easier ways of pushes, healing, condition removal, my playstyle prefers to deal a ton of damage instead of having the healing option. There's not much to heal if it's dead. There's not much to scheme if it's dead.

Not sure on how Thunders have easier access to + flips outside of a Shenlong crew and therefore sacrificing a 0-action of themselves. While many masters and their crew have access to + flips, most of those masters are also available in other factions. I'll agree with you if you meant that we have the highest concentration of possible crews that have access to + flips. Pretty much every Thunders crew can and will get + flips, which is in stark contrast with the other factions. The downside to all those extra + flips is that our faction has a low minimum damage as average and they really need those + flips to really be able to compete with other factions when it comes to damage. I'm not saying all our models have low damage, but most of them do.

And I'll repeat again, I'm switching to neverborn so I hope I can find out what I'm missing out on by not playing the Thunders or what possible strengths I've been overlooking or miscrediting.

The obvious one here is - yes, you really should go for Neverborn for lots of damage and speed, or Guild if you prefer doing lots of damage from range mostly.

Outside of Shenlong for plus flips you have: The great Recalled Training, there are models with + flips on attacks like Katanaka snipers, Izamu the Armor (or was it on damage with him?), the gatling guns of Fuhatsu and the Samurai, etc.; some models can focus once for Focus+2, the Emissary can give focus to friendlies (once per game I think?), Toshiro has a +Melee aura for Minions and for a (0) discards a scheme marker to give friendly Minions Focus+1, Kang's aura gives +attack (and damage?) vs. constructs and undead, Misaki has + flips from Stalking Bisento, Mei Feng has + flips against models on Fire, Obsidian Oni only have + to damage vs burning targets, Huggy and Illuminated have + to attach vs targets with Brilliance, Black Sheep models (McGabe, Sidir, Master Queeg) can take the Promises upgrade to give friendly models with upgrades + to melee and wp duels; if a model with (0ss) Hidden Agenda hits an enemy friendly Oiran in LoS gain Fast and Focus... I probably am missing some things. Oh, yeah: Yan Lo's 2AP teleport AoE attack has + to attack and damage, Asami can give Focus+2 to minion and Oni models, Yu gains Focus+1 on successful bursts...

The above list is how the low min and mid damage of the faction is balanced, or rather what dictated that the average min and mid damage of faction should be on the lower side.

Some other things you will be missing out on is all sorts of shooting options that you will probably feel lacking in Neverborn after Ten Thunders as well as access to weird combinations. In Thunders you can take a Dawn Serpent with McGabe and give it's Wk6 Flight two activations with Nimble and maybe fast. In Thunders your Toshiro can kill the Peasant that was just summoned to raise an Ashigaru and (0) give Focus+1 by discarding the scheme marker to both your snipers. In Thunders Lynch can gather all the aces from flipping through the whole deck with Samurai and/or Ten Thunders brothers (free defensive, more + flips!) and then blast with Final Debt for up to 12 damage because you have the tools to position him for straight-up murder. In Thunders your snipers and archers can shoot from behind two - flips with a + against the enemy undead and constructs before the close-up beatdown comes while the pieces of scrap from the Mechanized Porkchop are raised as Komainu. Not to mention crazy prosti***es, ninjas and demons spawning from your Clockwork Traps. Or Yan Lo cheating soulstones as f*** by having Terracotta Warriors swap his Chi upgrades for standard ones, then alpha-striking with Recalled Training and Hunpo Assault -twice- because he got Fast from say, Chiaki, or Yu.

Regardless, just forget about all of the above. If you never thought about many or all of them, then Thunders with it's elusively synergized (for the one playing them as well) tactics and tricks are not for you anyway  

[Richard matthews]

On ‎29‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 0:51 PM, Ludvig said:

I've heard many players argue McCabe is a lot better in thunders. I usually play him in guild myself and have only tried a game or two in the thunders.

i have literally started playing him as 10T yesterday he was soooo much fun gving a guild hound (infiltrate) 51 " inch move turn 1 and drop a scheme marker seems interesting but my list is

 

McCabe + promises + glowing sabre + badge of speed (5)

Dawn serpent (10)

Kamiatatchi (4) 

emissary + conflux (10)

illuminated (7)

wastrel (4)

TTB (5)

that's  a list based on me starting at the moment if anyone has any recommendations or alterations let me know, I have found that wastrel with glowing sabre + bravado a 4ss model can do min 4 damage at ml 6

 

 

[Jesy Blue]

Because with The Brewmaster and Lynch I get the opposing crew high and drunk as a battle tactic; what other crew... what other game is that a tactic that works regularly.