Outcast vs Outcast showdown

[Mxbedlam]

So you are at a tournament and your opponent declares Outcast. How does this affect what you reach for in your bag?  Do you continue to just build to the game or is there some secret tech you take to play vs the rest of the faction?

[Freman]

I just build for my schemes and strats. Outcasts are so varied that there's not really much you can tailor for anyway.

[Nukemouse]

To a certain extent I'd believe Hamelin, Levi and Von Schill are the best choices for outcast v outcast. Hamelin and Schill's crews have the ability to ignore many of the devastating abilities outcasts possess thanks to things like schill's HTK aura + high wp, freikorps armor, hamelin blocking charges and conditions etc. Several outcast crews have weak minions that rely on special defenses Levi can ignore, so he can produce several abominations most likely by picking off those minions.

In truth there is such a great deal of access to out of faction models within outcast masters i have to agree with Freman in most cases.

[CapnBloodbeard]

I don't think a same-faction match is really that much of a problem, given that each master will play quite differently and will take a different crew - and even the same master can be played a number of ways. 

So knowing I'm facing outcasts.......I'd probably just try to take something to deal with Hamelin's rat-spamming, and potentially something to reduce the chance of being charged by Viks.  Aside from that, just play my game. 

 

This is assuming I know I'm facing outcasts with no idea of which master. 

[DXXXVIII]

Tara.

Her  bury messes with other taras and levi.

her wp duels mess daw.

Her sh immunity helps gainst schill and parker.

and both hamelin and viks dont like to get alpha-striked.

[Seadhna]

Hamelin laughs at Tara's beast-bombs (Irresistible Dance anyone?)

Bury doesn't affect Levi at all (not like Tara can attack buried models)

Parker isn't about shooting (she's actually really vulnerable to Hands in the Air)

Daw has Wp 7 (lots of Tormented do have low Wp, but Daw himself will tear most of her thematic crew apart and doesn't really afraid of anything she might bring herself)

 

See, same argument works both ways!

[DXXXVIII]

hamelin cant be charged but even a double walk to hit his stolen once is (especially early in the game) unfun for hamelin.

Each time levi gets buried hes allowed to reduce his waifcount by 1 to unbury. tara cant damage buried models but karina does and wretches.
parker istn about shooting. yes your right. It  still is more than helpfull to be shoot-immune against a parker/banndit list who's  main damage output is shooting.
against daw... yes hes reallly beaty  but his tormented models ae really susceptible to Wp-duels  and daw hates enemies having extra ap to penance or fokus.

i also never said that tara obliterates all other outcast but that she would be my safest  pick. 

[Seadhna]

I think Hamelin is probably the safest. He dominates most of GG2017 scheme pools, and I can't think of a hard counter to him in Outcasts.

[Gnomezilla]

I just hope the opponent doesn't think the same. The game of Malifaux Rat keep-away that would develop, with trying to scoop your opponent's rats into your own Rat Kings...

[Freman]

I'm not sure about that. A summon focused Leveticus list could do reasonably well when every min-damage three model (Ashes, Deso, Alyce at range) can turn a rat into an abomination with a crow. I have out-activated Hamelin on turn three thanks to Ashes and Dust summoning three a-bombs off of a stolen and two rats.

I like Hamelin, and would probably take him in a take-all-comers list, but large numbers of weak models can also benefit your opponent if they have the tools to exploit them.

[Adran]

9 hours ago, Seadhna said:

I think Hamelin is probably the safest. He dominates most of GG2017 scheme pools, and I can't think of a hard counter to him in Outcasts.

Taras sword is a pretty good counter to some parts of him him. well, not him, but sypathethic echos can put a very large dent into a lot of rats in one go. Or a lot of Stolen in one go...

 

[Seadhna]

8 hours ago, Freman said:

I'm not sure about that. A summon focused Leveticus list could do reasonably well when every min-damage three model (Ashes, Deso, Alyce at range) can turn a rat into an abomination with a crow. I have out-activated Hamelin on turn three thanks to Ashes and Dust summoning three a-bombs off of a stolen and two rats.

I like Hamelin, and would probably take him in a take-all-comers list, but large numbers of weak models can also benefit your opponent if they have the tools to exploit them.

I have once made an Abomination out of Von Schill with A&D, that doesn't mean A&D is a good counter to VS.

Theoretically yes, Levi with Desolate Soul will make a fast and eventful trip from Rat-town to Abom-town, but why would you keep your rat engine anywhere near him? He still may be the best counter to Hamelin, but without Desolate Soul he's no threat.

Same with Tara: if you summon two Stolen in base contact with Hamelin, you can easily place them so Sympathetic echoes won't AoE the second one; otherwise, why would you keep all your Stolen in a 2" bubble against possible AoE's?

[Adran]

53 minutes ago, Seadhna said:

Same with Tara: if you summon two Stolen in base contact with Hamelin, you can easily place them so Sympathetic echoes won't AoE the second one; otherwise, why would you keep all your Stolen in a 2" bubble against possible AoE's?

I think the pulse eminates from Tara, so its not so easy to have them in LOS of Hamlin (to be able to keep him alive), and not able to be hit by Tara and her 8" pulse. 

[Seadhna]

23 hours ago, Adran said:

I think the pulse eminates from Tara, so its not so easy to have them in LOS of Hamlin (to be able to keep him alive), and not able to be hit by Tara and her 8" pulse. 

You are correct sir, my mistake.

Still, Tara is extremely slow when not charging, it will take her some time to get into Echoes range.