Gremlins vs Reva

[VishnuDoW]

So I am not actually a Gremlin player but a dirty ressur infiltrating... I recently picked up Reva and my most frequent opponent plays gremlins.  The few games I've played against him with Reva have led to his getting very frustrated and wondering what he can do about her.  It feels to me like gremlins are her ultimate prey - a flood of cheap bodies I can turn into corpses (a bayou gremlin can easily be one shot with her into another corpse to keep the engine running - all from across the table in safety).  I'm just wondering if people here have any experience taking gremlins against Reva and what you'd recommend as an answer?  I've only played her a few times and maybe eventually he'll figure out some good tech against her, but for now, if I just wanted to win, I don't see why I wouldn't pick her against gremlins every game... Please help!

[Adran]

Taxidermist are probably a good start, make use of all those corpse markers.

Picking models more durable than Bayou gremlins is also a good idea. 

[codingCaptor]

For resers, except maybe Mcmorning, my answer is always going to be Ulix.

He brings a lot of large tanky units to the battlefield, capable of standing on top of corpse markers and blocking your line of sight to them with their 40+mm bases.   To avoid Willpower problems, Ulix will need to take the Liquid Bravery upgrade and forgo using his healing 0 action.    This means additional slop haulers will be necessary for summoning purposes.

And you may think that summoning is a bad idea with Ulix, since additional piglets on the field just gives Reva more opportunities to ruin your day.   But due to piglets innate tankyness (6df, 3-5wp depending on closeness to Ulix)  they're often going to live much better against Reva and her crew than most other models.   With their ability to interact as a 0 (bring old major with corn husks)   they can also score most schemes very easily.   They're ESPECIALLY strong if accusation, Tail em, or Mark for death are in the pool, although killing things you've marked can sometimes be a difficult task, especially vs. Ressers.    Piglets can also dish out slow if they can connect with a tome.   Considering how many attacks a single piglet can get out in a round (and how many piglets you can have out)  Most of the enemy crew should be slow and unable to really accomplish their objectives, either schemewise or murderwise.     There's nothing quite like a Tailed Accused Slow Reva surrounded by a couple piglets that just refuse to go down.

I'll typically send a piglet to kill the first corpse candle, have old major stand on its corpse, and then ulix will sit next to the Major summoning piglets for as long as is reasonable, leaving the piglets to accomplish most of the point scoring.   If some enemy is foolish enough to try and rush into the Ulix ball, then they will be murdered by the Sow.    Rezzers are tanky, but a Sow with multiple plus flips to attack and damage will chew through pretty much anything it can hit.   It's worth mentioning that Gracie is a TERRIBLE choice for this list, for one she doesn't get the WP buff from Ulix, and for two Reva can ignore her armor (or Vincent can make everything ignore her armor)    Gracie is just free bacon against a Reva list.

However, the problem with Ulix is it all comes down to your positioning.    Putting Ulix (and his summoning pigs, and the piglets he summons) in the wrong spots can lead them to charge the wrong things, ending up far away from a place where they can be useful.   Or accidentally create a corpse marker next to everything important that Reva will use to obliterate.   Reva vs. Ulix really does come down to who is the better player.   Which I suppose is as it should be.

 

(I played an Ulix vs. Reva game at a big 40+person tournament recently, and my opponent only managed to kill 2 of my models, both of which were summoned piglets.    I won that game too.    One of the most fun games I've ever had.)

[Frollo the Wordbearer]

I'd say trying to kill her ASAP should work better and in gremlins it's available in nearly every crew.

Burt (or francois) + iron skeeter should be the right tool. Huge threat with up to four 4-minimum dmg attacks targetting her average def.

Imho

[Four_N_Six]

I hate to use models everybody loves.  They get enough play time without me contributing to it and I much prefer to find better options.  That being said, McTavish is probably a decent choice.  He can eat corpse markers on a (0), to help reduce the usefulness.  I'd definitely choose a more tanky crew.  Ulix isn't a bad choice.

The master options, and one I'd probably go with, is either Wong, Zipp, or Brewmaster.

With Wong, you're going to be trying to blow her off the table first.  She brings much better range, he brings much better damage.  Plus if you use Swinecursed and a good Glowy target (There's McTavish again), it brings a good few tanky models that regenerate and do more damage than they typically should, trying to clear her crew before she clears yours.  If McTavish is the magical target, it also means he's doing that additional damage from range, so as to stay out of Reva's range by just killing and staying away from corpse markers.  Anything gets killed too close, he can eat the marker before she can use it against him.

The Brewmaster might not be the popular choice, but it's probably the one I'd go with.  With a Brewmaster crew, you're not really trying to kill models.  You might have some hires with the capability to kill well, and I generally have one or two that can, but the overall point of the crew is to shut models down without killing them, so you're reducing her usefulness.  Or, at least, not contributing to it.  I'd also play around with the idea of Sparks and the Whiskey Golem, as they reduce the corpses she receives.

Third option is my go-to for any option because he's just amazing, Zipp.  He runs a construct heavy crew if he wants to, so no corpses for Reva at all, Sparks can help add to that, and Zipp is fast enough to get right the Hell in her face before she knows he's coming.  He won't have the advantage on the Ml attack, but if he can hit it, he can try to get her out of LoS for corpses and endangering the crew.

I'd still probably go Brewmaster on this one, but Zipp is a close second choice.  Unless he can get good use out of Wong.  All 3 will typically work well enough, it's just that Wong needs to really do that damage before she can so the corpses are on her side of the board before his crew gets killed.

[daniello_s]

Since Reva can choose to target Df/Wp you must be careful of what you are taking against her. Piglets with their low Wp are easy target (unless staying close to Ulix all the time). I'd say I would go for two heavy hitters ('taxi' Burt and Francois) and throw them in her face as fast as possible to put enormous pressure on her. 

[Omenbringer]

9 hours ago, Adran said:

Taxidermist are probably a good start, make use of all those corpse markers.

Picking models more durable than Bayou gremlins is also a good idea. 

Taxidermists (even a pair) don't eat enough of her corpse counters too really slow her down. Reva is a difficult match for Gremlins...extremely difficult.

I would try the Pigapult. It has a long range, can actually get at her, and can do some decent damage. I would also recommend a more elite build since our staples tend to just make her worse of an experience as they die too easy.

I still feel Reva needs to be toned way down. Not saying she is absolutely unbeatable but definitely saying that she is a very negative play experience in most instances. I would much rather find something (anything really) else to do than play a game against her. She really does have a lot going for her.

[Clement]

Running gremlins into Reva is a bit like running gremlins into Rasputina or other "blaster" style masters.  You're likely going to end up with a body count unless you're specific about your crew choices.  Generally speaking, I find that the game against Reva is likely lost the second their opponent decides "welp, I guess she can just hit whoever now".

Bringing McTavish or even a single taxidermist can cut off Reva's attack angles a bit.  It won't solve the problem but it will certainly hamper her a bit.   I wonder if a better choice is to look further afield in the mercenaries into something like Sue.  He's a giant middle finger to Reva's shenanigans between tread the line and The Man in Black.  He's certainly not a cheap answer, but he's generically useful anyway.

[EpicWaffle]

I've got a couple of matches under the belt and I feel quite comfortable with two masters which are Somer and Zipp (goes to say that they're my go-to master anyway ).

Zipp for the simple reason that he's really mobile, can block line of sight, and usually runs a crew that can easily get to reva's face quite fast (and she can't take too many hits).

Somer because he can keep up with the absurd amount of activation Reva can generate (which is for me the most annoying thing about her, since by the end of turn 1 with the emissary you'll end up with 3 free activations without almost no cost) and can make a solid use of the Pigapult, which is a huge deal for her. Consider that her full reach is something around 22" (counting base dimension etc), and the pult has 24. I just keep her under constant barrage and aim to deal as much dmgs I can/make her waste cards. Also, you need to spread out as much as you can and focus down her midfield models, cause those are what bring the points home (and damn they're big too....) 

Also, if you have a redjoker, use it for Bigger hat than you! No cards means no shards, no candle, and if he's using the beet noir, you'll be able to take her down. And don't forget to spread out models.

Still, I'm quite sure they'll change something either to her or the models that surround her because she's really a step further than other masters! She hits like a truck, generate crazy amounts of activations without spending significant resources/Ap, and does everything from 18" away. As @Omenbringer said, she's not undefeatable (I think I have more wins than loss against Reva), but she's really frustrating. A friend of mine said Somer is unbalanced on a similar level to Reva, since he can summon, deal great damages and has awesome utilities, but I'm totally against it. Somer damages is avoidable (sh 5 on a different level than ca6 against any resistance I want, ignoring cover since it's a casting, from 18"), and can be reduced, his summoning costs 16ss from your crew+ 4 midrange cards (in a bad case) at the beginning of the game to make a couple of comparisons! But most of all Somer requires dedication before being able to use him well, while Reva is simply a no brainer hitter, which automatically gets her resources to function (unlike raspy that requires keen setup to maximize her range, and is "easy" to counter).

So I wouldn't disrupt her because she's a cool idea for a master, but sure some tweaks needs to happen either to her threat range or her summoning capabilities.

[VishnuDoW]

Thanks for the thoughts all - I'll link this to my friend and see what he thinks as an actual gremlin player.  The last game we played he wanted me to play Reva again so he could try to figure out how to beat her and then we rolled the mother of all spread out and scheme scenarios so I didn't end up playing her.  He'll certainly feel at least a little vindicated that a lot of people seem to think she's overpowered.  As someone that's only played her a couple times I'm not sure that I disagree with him...

[wizuriel]

38 minutes ago, VishnuDoW said:

Thanks for the thoughts all - I'll link this to my friend and see what he thinks as an actual gremlin player.  The last game we played he wanted me to play Reva again so he could try to figure out how to beat her and then we rolled the mother of all spread out and scheme scenarios so I didn't end up playing her.  He'll certainly feel at least a little vindicated that a lot of people seem to think she's overpowered.  As someone that's only played her a couple times I'm not sure that I disagree with him...

Why don't the next time you 2 flip schemes/strats create crews and then swap crews. I find the best way to learn to beat a master is to play them so you understand what exactly they do and need to do to do that really scary thing.