Jakob Lynch - A Comprehensive Guide to Gambling

[Cadaverousbirth]

This is the link button disguised as text

Hey fellow Wyrdudes and Wyrdudettes,

I wrote a long-winded guide to Jakob Lynch over on Midwest Wargaming. Take a gander and read a bunch on one of my favorite Masters. I focus mostly on the 10T side of things because they are my preferred faction but it is very thorough. Enjoy. Or don't, I'm not your dad. Or am I?

[clockworkspide]

I read it up till you started dismissing thematic models like Tannen and Beckoners as not worth taking and talking up unthematic garbage like Nekima and Lilitu.  Because it's not like this is a character-based skirmish game, am I right?

Oh, wait, I forgot...only tournaments are real Malifaux and themed crews are for scrubs and newbs that don't Play To Win.

Anyway, Lynch is still trash 'cause Brilliance is worthless, and that was the big draw for me, so...thanks, Wyrd!

[santaclaws01]

12 minutes ago, clockworkspide said:

I read it up till you started dismissing thematic models like Tannen and Beckoners as not worth taking and talking up unthematic garbage like Nekima and Lilitu.  Because it's not like this is a character-based skirmish game, am I right?

Oh, wait, I forgot...only tournaments are real Malifaux and themed crews are for scrubs and newbs that don't Play To Win.

Anyway, Lynch is still trash 'cause Brilliance is worthless, and that was the big draw for me, so...thanks, Wyrd!

Lots of unnecessary hostility there buddy.

[Cadaverousbirth]

13 minutes ago, clockworkspide said:

I read it up till you started dismissing thematic models like Tannen and Beckoners as not worth taking and talking up unthematic garbage like Nekima and Lilitu.  Because it's not like this is a character-based skirmish game, am I right?

Oh, wait, I forgot...only tournaments are real Malifaux and themed crews are for scrubs and newbs that don't Play To Win.

Anyway, Lynch is still trash 'cause Brilliance is worthless, and that was the big draw for me, so...thanks, Wyrd!

 That's a days worth of salt right there.

You can keep your theme intact and have all the fun you want out of the game, but I (and I think most people) want to know about good options for various scenarios and it just so happens that the Darkened keyword doesn't rise to the top. I sincerely do not understand your sentiment that Brilliance is worthless when Brilliant models will die. Have a drink, take a breath, and come back to the Honeypot any time.

[Passenty]

Its not Cadaverousbirth's fault that beckoners have bad rules

[Ergonomic Cat]

25 minutes ago, clockworkspide said:

I read it up till you started dismissing thematic models like Tannen and Beckoners as not worth taking and talking up unthematic garbage like Nekima and Lilitu.  Because it's not like this is a character-based skirmish game, am I right?

Oh, wait, I forgot...only tournaments are real Malifaux and themed crews are for scrubs and newbs that don't Play To Win.

Anyway, Lynch is still trash 'cause Brilliance is worthless, and that was the big draw for me, so...thanks, Wyrd!

Generally, if you're playing for theme and fun, you're not likely going to be the sort of person that reads articles about how to maximize playing a particular master.  Writing an article on thematic Lynch would be an interesting exercise, but would mostly be an experience of going through the lore.  And I would be surprised to find such an article that didn't title itself "A guide to playing Jakob Lynch for fun (and maybe not losing all the time)" or the like.

Also, you go straight from "It's not like this is a character based game where you play stuff that's cool" to "Lynch is trash" - isn't Lynch an interesting character?  Is this a power focused game or not?

I mean, feel like you want to feel, but bashing someone because they're playing a game to win and don't adhere to a strict theme, especially to the degree of putting words in his mouth, is a bit tonally off here.

[mythicFOX]

<modhat>

We can all enjoy Malifaux in our own way and still play nice together in these forums. 

Thanks. 

</modhat>

[iamfanboy]

So, constructive criticism. I did nod several times while reading it - for example, I certainly never saw the connection between the Samurai and fishing for Aces, and it certainly helps fuel Lynch's end-turn bomb.

I do like how you ran through most of the models. While I certainly do share your view on Beckoners versus Lilitu/Performers (I made the conscious choice to buy the twins over Beckoners for that very same reason, and already had Performers), I think where you're underselling them is that their ranged attack doesn't have a gun icon (meaning it can be fired into enemies already engaged with your Illuminated and Huggy, giving them Brilliance before the beaters go to town!) and in some Scheme Pools A Pleasant Distraction would be endlessly frustrating to an opponent, particularly if you've got Depleted acting as a tarpit to block easy access to your Beckoner. Mr. Tannen does seem like he does more work supporting other Masters than Lynch, despite the thematic tie-in, and has a sharply limited Scheme pool usefulness.

There were several problems with it as an article, though.

First off, you're incorrect about Depleted. Under The Influence gives the Brilliance Characteristic, meaning they're free to push towards anyone with Brilliance.

Second, you were... cutesy, nonsensically so in some cases. Example sentence: " He’s Incorporeal and fast with a solid attack (weaboos beware) and an excellent Obey action." Why toss in a random and unimportant reference to Japanime fanboys in the middle of that sentence? There are two halves to good writing: Knowing how to write, and knowing how NOT to write. That's why editors are important, but a man can be his own editor if he's careful - just read over something that you've written and ask, "Is this necessary? How few words do I need to make my point?"

Lastly - and I'm REALLY trying to say this nicely - the pullmyfinger wiki overall has a much more easily read and comprehensive look at Lynch. You have many good observations to make, many of them about Lynch as Ten Thunders that would no doubt be welcomed on there - the Samurai's ability to fish for Aces, along with the 10T Bro's natural synergy with Lynch's Ace-recycling, are easily the best arguments I've seen for running him in 10T, yet aren't even mentioned on Lynch's page!

 

But as a separate article? I think your work is worse than the wiki's.

That sounds harsh, I know, but when writing you've got to consider the body of literature that already exists. I literally tore apart a floppy disk of my stories when I heard about the Dresden Files because of how similar it was to his, and I refused to read the novels until last year - while I can see where I would have been different, it wouldn't have been ENOUGH different to feel like anything other than a Dresden Files clone, even though I'd written them long before I'd heard of Dresden.

[Treehouse]

I liked the read. Though I don't agree with everything, the Samurai thing for example was new and the article was entertaining to read. (I din'T get what a wheebo (?) is and just overread it....yeah...I guess it doesn't really fit in there).

I thought the article was well structured actually. And concerning the body of literature, having more on the same topic helps to filter information and I like to read different takes on a topic - in content, style and structure.

So, while @iamfanboys critique is fair and offers good advice, I think it judges the article on an academic scale which per se is a solid orientation but not always something to work after.

[ringsnake]

@TreehouseA Weabo is a Westerner who lives in his mother's basement because he cannot otherwise sustain his unhealthy addiction to Japanese anime; think freak with unhealthy Japanese schoolgirl fetish. I'm not sure how it follows in the article unless the OP knows some other definition for the word.

I played a Lynch theme list with three illuminated, three stitched together, huggles, and lynch. It did pretty well, because if you combine addict and Stitched together you can drop some insane damage with relatively little risk to your stitched together. Stitched also provide a relatively reliable means of dropping low wound number models within 6" of lynch to keep bringing back huggles, and extra card draws and cover for the Illuminated. I also had more activations than my opponent was expecting.

Nothing. NOTHING. Is more frustrating to your opponent than finally bringing down a seven wound incorporeal model only to have it come back again.

EDIT TO ADD: My game was against Parker Barrows, and he did indeed have Sue, who was indeed a pain. It was a bit of a slog, as we hard countered each other quite a bit. IIRC the schemes I took were Inspection and Covert Breakthrough, and the Strategy was Reconnoiter. I nailed down Inspection with the Stitched, and Huggles and Illuminted murdered their way down the middle of the board to fulfill Breakthrough and Reconnoiter. After that game I've come to the conclusion that addict is better on Lynch, because while huggie is buried it's not doing anything for you.

I strongly disagree with the recommended loadout of Wanna See a Trick and Woke Up With a Hand, since they railroad your activation and cheat options. The more time and effort you have to spend making a certain combination of actions go off, the less I like it. Instead I went with Endless Hunger, Expert Cheater, and from now on will be putting Addict on Lynch. Face down cheats and squeal were instrumental in my win, as it screwed with my opponent more than I realized until he told me how badly it messed him up.

While I'm 100% behind the sneering contempt for people who shove Nekima into every single list, because OMFG she's unbalanced and crazy powerful, I'm also 100% behind the notion that Beckoners and Tannen are kinda crap in terms of their rules. If you're going to use Darkened models there needs to be some synergy there, and the only synergy with Beckoners and Tannen is that they run up close to maybe keep Brilliance going an extra few activations, or inflict Cooler for a turn, before they get squished. Not a great payoff for six or seven soulstones when there are other available models with Lure type shenanigans that are much better.

If all the NB players are shoving Neks into every list they have, the meta of other factions is going to revolve around taking her down. You can anticipate the kinds of things they'll bring to stop Nekima, and then build anti-anti-Nekima lists.

[Treehouse]

Thanks @ringsnake. So a Western akward basement otaku :P.

[Sharp_GT]

Hmm, I'm kinda baffled by everyone calling the beckoners crap. I'd say they're one of the most versatile models NB has access to. The trigger built into their lure is reeeeallly good, and having a way to slap brilliance onto an enemy from range makes them a great fit for the lynch crew.

[Hermit]

I don't think they are crap. They're just not worth the 7 stones they cost. Compare them to Rotten Belles. If Beckoners cost 5 stones they'd be great and I would probably always take 1-2. But 7 stones is asking a lot, considering that's a whole additional Illuminated or even Autumn Knight you could be bringing. 

[Chris Rivers]

Yeah I don't understand why Beckoners are 7 SS when Belles are less and they seem better.  Better Ca on the lure and card drain on the lure, yet 2 SS less.   Maybe 6SS?

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

27 minutes ago, Chris Rivers said:

Yeah I don't understand why Beckoners are 7 SS when Belles are less and they seem better.  Better Ca on the lure and card drain on the lure, yet 2 SS less.   Maybe 6SS?

 

I believe Belles' lure is "cheaper" because it is intended to compensate for low mobility of your undead models. Both 10T and Neverborn have an access to many mobility tricks, so lure is a bit more expensive for them.

[Treehouse]

Yep, it'll have to do with overall faction rules design.

By the way, I like Beckoners for their 4", too. But in general, I only use their ranged attack occasionly and think it is generally not the best idea to make brilliance part of your game plan. At least that's not something I'd take a Beckoner over Lilitu.

I like the movement/lure/push combos with a Doppelgaenger and Graves and that a Beckoner can hide behind a wall, move + lure and use the 4" to get back outside LoS, for example.

In general, I still consider Lilitu better for what she does.

[Sharp_GT]

true, for strict lure competence lilitu wins out, especially if you're looking to lure someone in and use her engagement range to keep them there. But reaaaallly love that 4" push trigger on beckoners. It lets you lure you're team forward, it relocates becky so you can lure two different targets, it can get her out of danger after the lure. But I digress. I always feel like I got my 7 SS worth of action out of a beckoner at least.

Huh, I never thought about that, but yeah the belles are probably so cheap because ressers are so low on movement tricks. They are really efficient on cost, like to the point that you can't not hire them.

[ringsnake]

On 4/15/2017 at 11:28 PM, Sharp_GT said:

true, for strict lure competence lilitu wins out, especially if you're looking to lure someone in and use her engagement range to keep them there. But reaaaallly love that 4" push trigger on beckoners. It lets you lure you're team forward, it relocates becky so you can lure two different targets, it can get her out of danger after the lure. But I digress. I always feel like I got my 7 SS worth of action out of a beckoner at least.

Huh, I never thought about that, but yeah the belles are probably so cheap because ressers are so low on movement tricks. They are really efficient on cost, like to the point that you can't not hire them.

Belles are also a bit easier to hit, and the only tricks they have are Lure and Pounce. IIRC they're Df4 and Wp4, so it's pretty easy to mess with them even if Hard to Wound and high wound count for a 5ss minion makes it hard to take them down. I'm just glad they at least reduced their Ca to 7, because Ca 8 on that lure was sick.

I suppose that Beckoners were made 7ss because they get the positive flip against Brilliance, can hand out brilliance, keep brilliance going, stop models with brilliance in LoS from doing interacts, do have higher Df and Wp than the Belles, etc... The problem is that a few of their abilities make them want to be up really close (heal and keep brilliance going) and your opponent won't have to expend too much effort to squish them.

By contrast, for the same range in points you can take The Illuminated, Stitched Together, or almost two depleted. I don't think the Beckoners are inherently bad so much as radically inferior to the other Darkened options. If you want to pull entertaining push tricks, one soulstone more will get you Graves the ultimate bodyguard for a few different schemes.

If you want to talk about a model that's supposed to be theme with Lynch that's actual trash, look at my avatar.

[Sharp_GT]

8 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

If you want to talk about a model that's supposed to be theme with Lynch that's actual trash, look at my avatar.

Truth, poor little tannen has only hit the table for me once, ever, and that was in the book two beta when graves could show him the door twice a turn to lug him around. He doesn't have much in the way of darkened synergy [neither does graves, though graves is amazing anyway] and he is just soooooo fragile for how close to the action he needs to be. I don't think anyone has managed to describe a situation where tannen is a justifiable pick. Even that cute trick that gives dreamer the ability to summon teddies is hardly worth the effort.

[Angelshard]

I've been looking at lynch for my next master and I have a question.

Ace management.

I believe the idea is to get them as early in the turn as possible and make sure you've discarded them all again before the turn ends.

If you end your turn with aces in your hand do you discard them at the start of the next turn, and so loose them for the rest of that turn or do you keep one or two, even though that means looking a higher card?

I can see wanna see a trick ensuring they go back in the deck, also mulligan, but it seems to me you will often end up with one or two on your hand when the turn ends, especially if you didn't activate lynch last.

Is there something I'm missing or is ace management just a judgement call every time?

[Kogan Style]

1 hour ago, Angelshard said:

I've been looking at lynch for my next master and I have a question.

Ace management.

I believe the idea is to get them as early in the turn as possible and make sure you've discarded them all again before the turn ends.

If you end your turn with aces in your hand do you discard them at the start of the next turn, and so loose them for the rest of that turn or do you keep one or two, even though that means looking a higher card?

I can see wanna see a trick ensuring they go back in the deck, also mulligan, but it seems to me you will often end up with one or two on your hand when the turn ends, especially if you didn't activate lynch last.

Is there something I'm missing or is ace management just a judgement call every time?

TT Lynch player but I can speak to this point.

You only need one ace in the hand to accomplish the various discard card effects, over the course of the turn you will pick up more (this happens in TT thanks to all the cards we flip!) I have kept one in my hand to tide me over only if I have a lot of discard card abilities, otherwise mulligian/Wanna See depending on the situation. Of course if I need to use all the aces I have to kill a brillianced target then that is always the priority use for the aces.

[Sharp_GT]

I hate to be that guy, but ace management really depends on what you want them for.

Say if you take a terror tot you will want to save an ace of masks for most of the game. Sometimes just hang on to any old ace for whatever effects, going defensive etc.

If you want to have lynch do an ace dump for damage then you will hang on to them until end of turn, and try to churn through as much of your deck as possible before then.

If you don't have a specific purpose for the aces you can just collect them and pitch them after shuffling to improve your deck's averages.

[Adran]

As I see it, there are 2 reasons to store aces.

Firstly because you want the discard for damage (or mulligan), in which case you will put them back into the discard pile before the shuffle, so they are there to find again.

The other one is to fuel an effect. Any ace can be discarded to activate things like defensive stance, so just keep one. If you are using models like Terror tots or Gupps, that want a certain ace, then hold that one. 

If you are only doing the second one, you don't need more than 1 ace, so don't care about them being out of your deck for a turn. If you are doing the first one, then you are probably hoping to have discarded them during lynches activation so they are in the discard pile to find again next time. If for some reason you haven't, I would probably still discard them at the end of turn unless I had a really cunning plan that needed them right at the beginning of next turn.

 

[Angelshard]

So generally unless you have something specific planned you don't mind your aces being out of the deck for a turn, bar one.

And if you do have something planned you will usually drop your aces on that (wanna see a trick) so they will get shuffled in.

Thanks for the explanations. 

[ringsnake]

I've been ignoring 52?pickup and final debt to instead focus on him as a support master with addict, expert cheater, and the rising sun, and let his crew do all the murdering. He just focuses on handing out brilliance.

Huggy and Illuminated just murder and run schemes like crazy.