What's in this swill? Sell me on Brewmaster

[mo11usq]

The received wisdom among those in my gaming circle is that Brewmaster is, to borrow a fun phrase I heard recently, 'hot garbage'.

Along with his humorous concept, and use of POISON (my new favorite thing ever), this makes me intensely curious to give him a try... I sometimes wonder if Wyrd themselves spread these opinions to bait us egotists into buying even more of this shit.

As I still labor under the burden of too much self respect to play Gremlins, how does he work in TT?

Trying to get an effective drinking game going in a 3" aura seems to me to have 'trap' written all over it, so I'm guessing hangover spam is more the way to go?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having a go at it myself:

Playing around with making a generalist (casually competitive i.e. fun) crew template was tricky - damn the good stuff is expensive! ended up with something this:

Cache - 5 (low, seems like he wants 6-7)
Brewmaster - running tab, binge, peaceful waters

Apprentice Wesley

Fingers - drinking problem

Whiskey Golem - barrel up

Guild Pathfinder

Fermented River Monk

Fermented River Monk

Monk of Low River

stratscheme dependent blahblahblah... Basic idea being for Brewie and the monks to advance up behind the golem, building poison and trying to out-heal range damage (drinking problem seems pretty essential here), and then negative flips for all whilst suped-up fermented and golem paint the town red once we finally close for fistycuffs. Wesley hanging back a bit more because *wet paper bag*, and ultimately waiting for his chance to succeed the throne because I couldn't fit misdirection in, and brewmaster will inevitably be pulling a Yan Lo without any ascendant upgrades (they never seem to help that much anyway) and a 5 stone cache he shares with holy-shit-did-i-just-pay-for-yasanori fingers. guild pathfinder scheme/disrupt schemes like the boss he is, preferably on a flank away from the heat. fingers satellites helping the healing, throwing things off schemes and at brewmaster, and trying to scheme as he goes.

Fingers could be yasunori/dawn serpent/emissary if a second beater is needed, could drop a fermented for TT bro to cover schemes.

Really want to get Yin in here somewhere, love that model!
 

[Tokapondora]

I'd like to start this off with saying that if you want to play Brewmaster, you're gonna have to ditch the poison aspect. And yeah, the drinking game is a fun little extra that "happens". Also I would probably leave out Wesley, Fingers, Whiskey Golem and the Fermented Monks. Wesley can be decent enough but he feels a bit expensive even if he's there for insurance, and you might take a Monk and give it reactivate for like two turns as Yu and Brewie drag themselves after him, but even then I feel there's often better options. 

Brewie works well with Yin, Yu and beaters. He can either swill 3-4 times a turn, or Binge someone's hand empty after Yin has 'd them. Wesley would be nice enough were it not for the fact that 5 SS for a 3 SS totem feels unfair. I generally feel Brew really doesn't need a lot of Soul Stones. Just pain he can easily send opponent's way. Get a  or two on one of their bigger beaters and even your 8 SS beaters can crush them (or trade in 3 8ish SS beaters for Yasu and 2 5ish SS whatever else you wanna take). He's really just the  machine that lets your crew do their thing easier, rather than being anything resembling his supposed theme.

[InvokeChaos]

I love Brewmaster in 10T and I have to agree with Toka that drinking game is fun when it happens but not a plan to build around. We don't have access to initiative control which is what makes that ability particularly shine. The Whiskey Golem and Moon Shinobi are decent, but not fantastic. And Fingers is a great support piece, but we are a faction of great support pieces. 

Here's my current "testing" list. I've been working on fine tuning this:

The Brewmaster - 4ss cache
-Running Tab
-Binge

Kamaitachi
Yasunori
-Hidden Agenda
Shadow Emissary
-Conflux of Inebriation 
Obsidian Oni
Terracotta Warrior

You have 9pts for a model or models of your choice. I have been recently experimenting with Lust, but Yin could be solid, if not redundant. I've also used a Samurai with the Earth upgrade (+3 wds). 

The idea is that You are abusing Swill and Binge to keep your opponent unable to deal with the fasted, ancient protectioned Yasunori.  Emissary provides plenty of beef. Obsidian Oni provides heals. Warrior/Weasel swaps running tab to misdirection (just for the initial push and card draw) and then swaps things around as needed.

Kamaitachi can also help walk obsidian oni and terracotta for schemes. If you are running Samurai, he is your misdirection target for Brewmaster to survive a bit more and be an occassional obey target and scheme runner. Or you can shoot with him and use obsidian oni and brewmaster's on the house to heal him up.

I like Lust because putting a beater on negatives, then tossing them around with Lust is really really good.

[Azkral]

Hace you tried Brewmaster with Akanames? You can heal your Crew and then absorb the poison and send it  to the enemy or make scheme markers.

 

[newsun]

Consider a performer or two if you're attempting any poison stuff, plus they scheme around people, which can be handy in some situations.

I'd consider this for head hunting, put on negs, lure, then slice. Fingers could easily be subbed then no need for the terracotta. Just start with misdirection, grab it either way, let brewie dump hits onto samurai as needed. Can always obey on the samurai to shoot, too.

50 SS Ten Thunders Crew
The Brewmaster + 5 Pool
 - Running Tab (2)
Fingers (10)
Samurai (8)
 - Favor Of Earth (0)
Wandering River Monk (7)
Performer (6)
Performer (6)
Terracotta Warrior (5)
Akaname (4)

 (exported from CrewFaux)

[mo11usq]

Quote

Also I would probably leave out Wesley, Fingers, Whiskey Golem and the Fermented Monks.

wow, way to rain on my parade

Thanks for all the advice guys, though it seems Brewmaster doesn't really play competitively how I would want to play him, at least in TT. That would actually be fine as I would intend to use him as a joke/surprise drop for the lolz, but doesn't enthuse me to go out and pick him up any time soon.

Still might try a game using proxies at some point, I'll post the report here if and when.

Some final thoughts on a few models and synergies:

Yin + Ama No Zako: most models on -flips (and potentially poison from yin and brew) will have a super rough time going after these guys. Recalled training on Ama and she becomes a decent threat.

Sensai Yu: after actually looking at his rules, seems auto-include. double drinking game now covers ~14" at max, more pushes and poison with one for the road (makes fermented monks viable surely? turn one yu and brew take a monk each and piggy back whilst putting them on 2 poison). Wandering river style difficult to fit in, but OMG. your beat stick fast and in position or their beatstick slow and out of position AND dick with markers for VP at the same time. winner.

Dr Grimwell: born to be in thunders - lobotomy + recalled training, and any other pushes/fast/focus/+flips/swill you want to hand out = disappear a model per turn. Would love the Emissary. lone swordsman cheaper and much the same effect, but not as stylish.

Anna Lovelace: Ca into combat, summon seishin for heals/blast protection and terrifying checks (mmmmh -wp). hands out poison and wp test to bury after damaging - brewmaster likes. Great control of enemy movement and positioning. Combine with Yamaziko to make a very difficult approach for the enemy, could combine with brewmaster for total cardrape in gaining grounds, but probably too much investment. 

Terracotta warrior + Kamaitachi: as others mentioned above, soak damage on enforcers and minions, swap upgrades for push, card draw and a little heal. might consider starting with wings of wind for extra 1st turn movement, then swapping between misdirection and running tab (marker discard + heal) later in the game as needed.

Malifaux Child: cheap activation, manipulative 15 (-flips and lowered wp help), extra binge (probably going too late in the turn to make hangover useful), could do worse.

Akanami: on paper i don't rate them, at least in TT. Weasel, low river, effigy all do more, especially with less emphasis on poison and monks immunity. If brew master had a way to summon them then we could do business.

Guild Pathfinder: never leave home without one. ignore armour and hard to wound, blasts, and slow from range. Trap summoning creates game changing tarpits, combined with brewmaster this could choke huge areas of the board and really lean on opponent's resources. doesn't need support and schemes on flanks really well. card draw.

lure-like or model moving abilities: Sensai Yu>Lust>Performer>Bunraku>Oiran

Misdirection targets: Terracotta>Samurai>Illuminated. Terracotta can ditch a card to prevent misdirected damage as it suffers the effects, but doesn't become the target - on top of its other utility.

[ArcticPangolin]

Love your youtube batreps Mo11usq! Have just recently finished watching them all  

I feel that getting Swill onto key enemies is the main goal for 10T Brewie.

Certain strats are definitely preferable; I don't get to play much so only really run him when it's worthwhile (Guard the Stash/Extraction), haven't gotten him working properly in Interference yet, but that's because I love Drinking Contest too much.

To that end Mr Tannen is a lynchpin in my crew and the main reason it works at all in 10T. Also, even if I take no other upgrade, I'll always have Misdirection for Drinking Contest due to a lack of Initiative shenanigans in the Faction. As a result, things that attack the opponent's hand or make them cheat more often are very useful. I'll often Defensive once or twice to increase the chance of a  once I'm neck-deep in foes, which saves me SS if I have at least 2 in-hand. Just watch out for getting swamped by too many Black Blood models, that Poison-tick can be a bitch.

Lust is another auto-include for me since she can help haul Tannen up and reposition things into or out of Brewmaster's range, plus has Manipulative to boot which stacks nastily with Drinking Contest. Her  is amazing.

Due to these guys not putting much out in the way of damage and my general aim to clump as many enemies into Brewie, I like bringing along other (useful) Crossroads 7 models. Personal faves are Greed, Sloth and Gluttony... I haven't put Envy together yet but his aura works differently to the others. Pride IS useful to activate early and use his once-per turn attack to make them ditch cards, but really doesn't offer any other synergy since the goal is to make them not have enough cards to cheat with anyway rendering his aura into useless pants, and his Tannen Cooler field-lite affects friend and foe alike. Haven't gotten Wrath assembled yet either but I see merit: see Terrifying below. If it all works, it does not make for a fun game for your opponent.

I haven't had much Poison floating around the way I play, so Performers haven't come into it yet. But if you run more Tri-Chi then they can be outright deadly, pulling enemies in and hitting them for ALL their Poison. Other non-Tri-Chi Poisoners are Oiran, who might actually be able to Flutter well (but no Poison) against a target on 's, Dawn Serpent, Torakage on a suit... probably more but I am typing a lot here.

Then you have useful Obey/Binge targets: Yasunori, who can get all his triggers EACH activation (Brewie & Wes or Child). Samurai makes them missing not a drama. Brewmaster himself, who can be Binged by Wesley/Malifaux Child for more Swill. Anything big and scary really. But friendly Terrifying (All) models are incredibly useful; make the enemy attack them and fail the test. Yin and Wrath are cheaper options that synergise with my crew style a little better. Then you could make an Ama No Zako devour the Paralysed model.

Obviously things that attack Wp are ideal; Komainu, Bishop, Yin.

The introduction of the Terracotta Warrior makes using other Faction's Tri-Chi models feasible, since you can take Running Tab to hire them and immediately swap it out for Misdirection. The Schemes and Stones Brewmaster episode is Gremlin-focussed but discusses the merits of the rest of his box and the Whiskey Golem, concluding that due to their cost Fingers and the Golem are pretty mutually exclusive. Fingers is an A-grade c*** though.

Malifaux Child is pretty pointless in comparison to Apprentice Wesley as Wes offers a lot more, and Terracottas allow you to sub out the costly upgrade you need to hire him.

[scarlett fever]

Had my first game with Brewmaster last week in about a year. Whilst I didn't win that just came down to a couple of airhead moments and it was a really fun game.

I purposely didn't take a Yasa/beater list with the rest of the crew as their support as I was keen to try a Poison-based and Drinking Contest List. Fingers Poison attacks plus a Performer proved to be pretty solid, pity he went down quickly. But that'll happen when Mei Feng slams into the middle of your crew. Also took Sensei Yu who was great, though I ended up using his 0 more for One for the Road than Drinking Contest as the extra movement proved to be critical.

I do believe the Terracotta Warrior has made him much more playable though. Being able to cycle his upgrades as required (mostly between Misdirection and Wings of Wind) plus Ancient Protection on my Performer and Emissary was awesome.

[ArcticPangolin]

I forgot a couple of things:

I like having a Monk of Low River or two for condition removal. This is due to the drink that anyone, Brewmaster in particular, might need to heal up with from tanking (lessened somewhat if someone else has the Drinking "Problem" upgrade) and/or if I have Sloth, as his heal of 3 Wds also gives Slow. Plus it's funny when opponents lose Reactivate.

Also, if you do have Drinking "Problem" in the crew, Greed's and Monks of Low River's (with upgrade) healing is extra nice for other Tri-Chi models since it is a flip, which is then doubled. The extra push that it provides is dead handy too.

[Kogan Style]

Played my first game with Brewmaster the other day and lost to Hoffman 10 - 8. I ran:

Brewie - 6ss cache

-Running Tab

- Binge

Wesley

McTavish 

-Recalled

Sesnei Yu

- Wandering River

-Promising Disciple

Performer

Terracotta Warrior

Fermented River Monk

Strategy: Turf War Corner deployment

Schemes: Claim Jump, Accusation, Eliminate the Leadership, Hidden Trap, Mark for Death (I took accuse and Mark)

I liked having Wesley around focusing and hitting targets with Binge and as a minion I could use him at a pinch to secure VP. Swapped out Running tab for Misdirection but it became clear Hoffman wasn't going to try for Eliminate once his Rail Golem got a massive hangover. I still played too safe with Brewie (who has fantastic range IMO) and didn't get stuck with the Drinking Contest until too late to swing the game back in my favour. 

I chose McTavish as he is one of the few mercs that can shoot into engagement and not randomise and I thought with Brewie going forward it could be a nice synergy with a 2/4/6 gun but armour really ruined that plan. I didn't get enough out of him (I also wanted to obey him on his recalled turn but realised in game that Brewie really wants to go first to get Drinking Contest up so I would never get the plus flips...) 

Yu was pretty great, my opponent stopped any hit from him going through to avoid gaining poision but I got some nice cards out of his hand in doing so. I took disciple because I don't like the 1: 1 ratio of Airburst to Mighty Gust and having to give fast the same turn you acquire focus. Also with the Poison aspect I thought I could at least take one model who could drink and laugh and never feel the side effects! He worked well despite some bad positioning and used the saved focus to help accuse targets and throw up another drinking contest bubble.

fermented got reactivate turn 2 thanks to Brewie and Yu doing One for the Road to drag themselves up, but my opponent then paralysed him with a Warden. I still like the combo though and I will continue to try him out. He died to a double severe from a hoffman charge (the Golem was so drunk!) and I forgot I had Ancient Protections on him like an idiot! 

Performer got nuked after failing to siren call the Hunter so she could accuse it, triple severe! 

Brewie needs someone to do the heavy damage because he can't, and for me that damage needs to be non-recalled dependent so Izamu may be pulled out of the bag despite the relatively flat damage track. I was also really starved for masks (Obey/Binge friendlies) and I wonder whether Anna Lovelace would be a useful addition to the crew with Rush of Magic. Card cycling after Brewie has been feels weird (since Wesley would benefit filtering for Masks to Binge with) but reading some of the comments here, I think that we need to embrace the weirdness that Brewmaster brings to the game of faux!

last thought: Poison, so common when I played as a Ressur is really hard to come by in TT! admittedly my opponent did his best to prevent any poison going onto his crew (he also took the Mech. attendant to remove conditions from hoff) but I couldn't get much and consequently didn't see the WP negatives stack up. I will be trying again before I put the poison game back in the box for good but I can see why people say not to rely on it.

discussion point: I think Brewmaster would be a great drop into Neverborn.

 

 

 

[Kbonn]

The main way I've been running brewmaster with success is as follows.

 

Brewmaster: Running tab, Binge

Sensei Yu: Wandering river style, peaceful waters

Low river monk

Terracotta warrior

Yasunori: either Smoke Grenades or Equality.

Wesley

(Insert second combat model: Bettarhi, Ama No Zako, Yin, Envy, Sue)

 

Terracotta always turns Running Tab into Misdirection on first activation.

 

Mainly, its debuff stuff with brew and kill it with the other models.  Sensei helps everyone get where they need to go.  Drinking contest can work, you just need to swill them and you can lock down 2ish models with brewmaster.

[Boomstick]

Don't listen to the nay-sayers too much, Brewie works fine. Just have to navigate his 'shine-cart around a few neon-lit potholes.

1) His Drinking Contest is less a trap and more a...targeted use ability that most people think is meant to lock-down entire crews. Pick a beater or other central piece (at most two models) of the opposing crew and get them in, lock them down. Brewie spends the rest of the game swilling others at range, occasionally putting 1 AP towards punching the beater for more poison and a swill. If not, Yin can do it to keep them at  flips.

2) Crew selection is especially key for him. Personally, I have yet to take both Fingers and ol' Whiskey in the same list and do well (which I think is part of the Internet Wisdom that he's bad, everybody commits too hard to the Tri Chi theme). If the scheme pool is especially scheme-y I bring Fingers, knowing he'll get me 6 points more often than not, and deny a few more. If it's more kill-y I bring Whiskey, though he needs a surprising amount of finesse to use well. Take Drinking 'Problem' on whichever one you take, since neither of them have a (0), that (0) is some movement that help's get your target in Brewie's realm of influence, pre-poisoned and maybe with some damage on them (I find this especially helps Whiskey stay alive longer, sending the threats elsewhere after he hits them a time or two, then he hunts smaller fishes).

3) Also, crew selection is especially key for him. If you're taking him in Ten Thunders, don't feel you need to spend the 2ss tax for Running Tab to bring his Tri Chi buddies. yes you'll miss Wesley, but not toooo much. An enemy target being on  flips for everything makes even decent minions hit pretty well, and Thunders have some great minions. Thunder Bros, a few Archers (near either Sensei Yu or Brewie with Blot the Sky), the Dawn Serpent, take your pick. He makes Fermented Monks shine with minimal effort (even more so with Yu around to use his One for the Road (0) on them as well). If you want to bring Wesley and some other Gremlin Brew Crew staples, bring a Terracotta Warrior not only to switch out Running Tab, but to protect Wesley with Form of the Other. I haven't tried Yasunori with Brewie yet, but honestly I don't think the crew needs him. I'd rather spend stones on Yin, Yu, or the Thunder Emissary (I don't rate Brewie's conflux, but there's plenty of other upgrades he works well with. I like Equality, personally) or a few more solid activations (Performers are also great if you do want to kill the things Brewie's locking down) than a big beater who can already slice most models to ribbons and doesn't need them to be swilled.

A general list, since that seems to be the thing to do:

Pure Thunder
Brewie (6ss cache)
-Misdirection (2ss)
-Binge (1ss)
Sensei Yu (9ss)
-Wandering Style (2ss)
Yin (8ss)
-Smoke Grenades (1ss)
Samurai (8ss)
-Favor of Not Killing Himself (0ss)
Fermented River Monk (5ss)
Thunder Bro (5ss)

This leaves you with 9ss to play with. Maybe swap out the Samurai for a Lone Swordsman, but I like being able to "obey" the Samurai by hitting him with Binge.

Tri Chi Thunder
Brewie
-Running Tab
-Binge
Wesley (3ss)
Fingers/Whiskey Golem (10ss)
-Drinking 'Problem' (2ss)
Yin (8ss)
-Smoke Grenades (1ss)
Terracotta (5ss)
Moon Shinobi (6ss)
Fermented Monk (5ss)
Thunder Bro (5ss)

And that would leave you with a full cache. Depending on opposing faction/scheme pool, may swap out something for a Wandering Monk, probably the Thunder Bro or the Shinobi.

So, what's in this swill? Mostly the blood of your enemies.
Cheers! *glass clink*

[spooky_squirrel]

Last I ran Brewmaster, I ran him with the Dawn Serpent. My opponent did not have a good time between Binge and that fast little reptile eating his support. Brewmaster with the Tri-Chi overfocus is especially vulnerable to things with shooting/casting/threat ranges that are outside of the party bubble. That being said, a couple of Moon Shinobi who have been swilled can tank better and hit harder than people expect (treat negatives as positives, on 'negatives' on all flips).

Within TT, as @Boomstick already said, Brewmaster has access to a ton of solid minions/models. You might even sneak in a Katanaka Sniper to keep their shooters down (or out) from early on, with the Samurai being a mid-range firing platform that can switch up to kill stuff in close combat if something comes in that doesn't care about the Brewmaster's dirtiest tricks.