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DXXXVIII

Faction Counters

21 posts in this topic

Guys what do you think?
Are there Masters that could be considered Faction-Counters in Outcast? And if so, which ones?
I for my part started to prefer Hamelin against Neverborn.
He cant be outactivated by Dreamer, Cant be rooted by Lilith, cant be paralysed by Dora, cant get Brilliance by Lynch.
And The Viks against Resser. Well, they can chop faster than most Summoners can resummon. And they negate the strenght of the undead. their resilience.
I Like Tara against Gremlins. Theyre often shooty and have high synergy models that want to get removed as soon as possible by a Field-Scouted Beast-Bomb ;)
Opinions?
Or which masters would you pick, once you heard of the opponents faction?

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Here are my thoughts based on my experiences with my three masters: Hamelin, Jack Daw, and Von Schill.

 

vs. Guild: Hamelin. Hire Crooligans for the Mist to protect against shooting, and/or Nix with Hollow in case of blasts. Out-activating Guild should be easy. Nihilism can also help.

vs. Resurrectionists: Von Shill. Steam Trunk helps get rid of Corpse Markers and poison. Clockwork Seeker attack gets around Hard to Wound. Armor, A Legend to Live up To, and a Librarian will help survive.

vs. Neverborn: Jack Daw. This one was a tough one for me, but I think Jack's Ca7 against Wp or Df along with his pushes edge him over Hamelin, but I completely understand the OP's reasoning for picking Hamelin.

vs. Arcanists: Von Schill. His Freikorps Suit ignores Rasputina's blasts, his Ml attack ignores armor.

vs. Ten Thunders: Hamelin. Can't get slow. No-charge aura helps against Yasunori blitz, which is a thing these days.

vs. Gremins: Jack Daw. Oldest Magic helps against Bayou Two-Card and Guillotine Injustice on Bayou Gremlins is good.

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Jack daw and the low WP of Tormented models (Average WP of 4) against Neverborn? Hmm...
But Schill against Arcaniststs seems great. thanks :D

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Levi against Arcanists (their armor and shields are there to compensate for their low defensive stats)

Hamelin and JD against Neverborn (JD hits like a truck and can bring the Specialist vs Dora)

Basically JD against everyone else except 10T

Not sure about 10T though, not many players in my local meta.

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1 hour ago, DXXXVIII said:

Jack daw and the low WP of Tormented models (Average WP of 4) against Neverborn? Hmm...
But Schill against Arcaniststs seems great. thanks :D

Just don`t play him in theme :P

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Yeah there is truth in it. But without torment theres no push and then jack's just another solid beatstick.

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1 hour ago, DXXXVIII said:

Yeah there is truth in it. But without torment theres no push and then jack's just another solid beatstick.

You just need one Guilty to make two of your key models Tormented and then you can enjoy free pushes as much as you want to.

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8 hours ago, DXXXVIII said:

Jack daw and the low WP of Tormented models (Average WP of 4) against Neverborn? Hmm...
But Schill against Arcaniststs seems great. thanks :D

If your primary concern against Neverborn is the WP of your crew, Von Schill's WP7 bubble is something to consider.

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I tend to pick masters based on Strat/Schemes and individual models based on opponents factions. But I'll address both for the sake of it. 

Arcanists - Hamelin and Taelor. 

-- Hamelin can out-activate even Ramos if you commit to it, Rat Kings can eat away their schemes, and his bubble prevents charges from the likes of Howard and Cassandra. 

-- Taelor: anti-construct, anti-summoner tech, hits like a truck, and tanks pretty well. Bonus if Hamelin can boost her mobility wit the Pipes!


Resserectionists - Levi or the Viktorias and Rusty Alyce
-- Levi and the Viks both put out the damage to keep the dead resting, provide some level of activation control, and get around common Resser defenses. 
-- Alyce out-ranges almost everything a Resser player can bring to the table and ignores HtW! 

Admittedly, Ressers are historically one of my worst match-ups. Maybe because our local Henchman if the only Resser in the area though....

Ten Thunders - Hamelin and Taelor

-- Hamelin, again, out activates and out schemes, generally. When the only targets you have are rats, it rarely matters how many +flips you have...
-- Taelor here is mostly a meta call, since the two TT masters I see the most are Shenlong and Asami. Both of whom have to play around Taelor very carefully.
 

Gremlins - Jack Daw and the Strongarm Suit
-- Jack can drain Gremlins hard with Guillotine Injustice, out manuver them 90% of the time, and provide area debuffs through his thematic crew. Gremlins generally hate all these things.
-- The Strongarm has generally been used to hunt down irritating models while shrugging off most of the gobli- *ahem* Gremlin's damage with Armor +2

 

Guild - The Viktorias and the Freikorps Trapper

-- The Viks provide an attention grabbing murder-dance that can keep the filthy fascists on the back foot and take down key models. 

-- Trappers help pick off the guild support pieces early. With a high ram and another severe in hand they can kill things like Enslaved Nephilim or (if your's lucky) and Austringer in a single shot. 

Guild is my other worst matchup. Sonnia and Perdita haunt my dreams at times...


Neverborn - eh? 
--I've never found myself picking anything specific against NB, I just focus on scoring schemes and tie up their models as best I can. Granted I don't see them on the table much.

My $0.02. I don't have Tara, Misaki, or Parker yet, so I can't speak for them. Tara might be good into Guild sure to sheer AP control? I'm not sure. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on my analysis.

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Tara was very strong against guild because she could counter the (now not so) popular bury papa/franz combo and her immunity to Shooting-attacks.

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Thanks for the Taelor-Advice against shenlong. She never occured to me but sounds strong after thinking about it.
My Local Meta consistst of 50% Neverborn >.<
So I had to look into counters ;P

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8 hours ago, VaudevillianVicious said:

Gremlins - Jack Daw and the Strongarm Suit
-- Jack can drain Gremlins hard with Guillotine Injustice, out manuver them 90% of the time, and provide area debuffs through his thematic crew. Gremlins generally hate all these things

Just my $0.02 on this.  I hate taking Daw against gremlins.  With all the reckless they have they often will turn my curse over (just a 2 action and toss a card), and then run away so I can't pull it back (Daw has to start his turn withing 8 inchs and LOS to pull it back).  I have had many rounds that my curses are not doing a thing on gremlins.

 

Thanks,

Steven

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2 hours ago, keget said:

Just my $0.02 on this.  I hate taking Daw against gremlins.  With all the reckless they have they often will turn my curse over (just a 2 action and toss a card), and then run away so I can't pull it back (Daw has to start his turn withing 8 inchs and LOS to pull it back).  I have had many rounds that my curses are not doing a thing on gremlins.

 

Thanks,

Steven

Just get an Ama no Zako and chuck some boils and flies in their faces, won't run too far!

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Ama no Zako?
I've never used her to be honest. What is she good for? She seemed kind of fragile and her MI 5 wasnt impressive either. Is the hazardous Terrain gimmick worth the 9 Points?

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10 hours ago, keget said:

Just my $0.02 on this.  I hate taking Daw against gremlins.  With all the reckless they have they often will turn my curse over (just a 2 action and toss a card), and then run away so I can't pull it back (Daw has to start his turn withing 8 inchs and LOS to pull it back).  I have had many rounds that my curses are not doing a thing on gremlins.

 

Thanks,

Steven

That's completely fair. I tend to try and slap Guillotine Injustice on their minions (Bayous, Slop Haulers, Piglets, Roosters) and only put the others on when they can't really afford to run away. Jack vs Gremlins is a matchup that I lean heavily on Twist and Turn for, acting as a force amplifier for the rest of the crew.

Jaakuna Ubme with The Creeping Terror is a staple of that crew at well. Lures help a lot.

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7 hours ago, DXXXVIII said:

Ama no Zako?
I've never used her to be honest. What is she good for? She seemed kind of fragile and her MI 5 wasnt impressive either. Is the hazardous Terrain gimmick worth the 9 Points?

she's a disruption piece against factions with low defences and lots of Living models: Terrifying 13 Living and HtW + soulstones make her really tanky. She cripples bunched-up Gremlin crews by just landing in the middle. The mere threat of getting swallowed whole will make them commit resources to killing her.

 

If that's doesn't work, run her along a flank as a cheaper A&D.

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On 10.04.2017 at 5:00 PM, DXXXVIII said:

Tara was very strong against guild because she could counter the (now not so) popular bury papa/franz combo and her immunity to Shooting-attacks.

This doesn`t work since January. Guild doesn`t do a lot of shooting unless you go vs Perdita ;)

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Have to echo @trikk here. We have a local Tara infestation and Guild is the one faction they can't get a toehold against, because...

On 4/10/2017 at 10:02 AM, DXXXVIII said:

My Local Meta consistst of 50% Neverborn >.<
So I had to look into counters ;P

...a Guild crew can pack a lot of resistance to Wp duels, which shuts her down pretty hard for anything but a beast bomb--and we have a similar meta problem, so everyone who isn't NB builds for resistance to Wp duels. :PNot to mention Guild's the only other faction who might also bring the ability to mess with your buried models.

It's Viktorias who make me curl up in a ball and whimper, as I haven't mastered not staying in a giant clump of models. And Lazarus. Stupid rotten red-joker-magnet Lazarus.

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I agree, Von Schill is amazing against Arcanists.  I've play Von Schill almost exclusively against Arcanists and he works like a dream.  Von Schill, the Legend himself, works crazy well against them, since he ignores armor and can crack things to soften them up.  Moreover, with Augmented Jump, he can charge into the backline, then flounce around dealing merry death to all the soft squishy things (here's looking at you mages).  Then, his crew is great, strongarm suit is roughly a mini-Von Schill.  Then, Trappers are AMAZING and picking off or pinging down models (again, those pesky mages).  Lastly, Hannah, with her counterspell/flux can shut down Howard Langston's execute trigger (though you'll need a lot stones to prevent on her), then couple her with a librarian and trunk and BOOM she's back to full and ready to punch somestuff.  If you can eat the first round of attacks from Howard and survive, it's fairly easy to put him down.

On 4/2/2017 at 3:54 AM, DXXXVIII said:

Jack daw and the low WP of Tormented models (Average WP of 4) against Neverborn? Hmm...
But Schill against Arcaniststs seems great. thanks :D

 

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Except VS's blade does nothing against Arcane Shield or their discardable upgrade since it's not Armor and he's no Levi.

If his knife was "May not be reduced" it would rack up his utility real high.

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Hmm, he buffs the strongarm whos damage may not be reduced.

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