isilmeon Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 I have a Changeling with a focus and he stands near friendly Fraikorps Trapper. If the enemy model push in range with 28 inches from the Changeling, can he able to attack with his Surprise! ability, using a trapper attack and focus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Bengt Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I think no. "Surprise!" have to have its conditions fulfilled before you can declare the Action and have a chance to use Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Bengt Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 6 hours ago, solkan said: By that interpretation, the Friekorps Tracker would never be able to declare an attack against a model in the 14-28" range area. Because the Friekorps Trapper has to get the range of the Attack changed to 28 by the time it gets to paragraph four, too: How do you figure that? Going by "1. Declare Action and Spend AP" (p 37) you declare what action you are going to use before you declare a target and thus have an opportunity to use any Focus you have before deciding on the target. "Focused +1" (p 52) says to use it "...when declaring an Action..." so could presumably be used any time during step 1 since it doesn't further specify a timing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 trikk Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 On 29.03.2017 at 10:24 AM, Ludvig said: I think Bengt makes a good point. You can't use focus before measuring if you're within range of the surprise ability which is different from using focus on the trapper's declared action. The question is if the focused range can be considered the "range" of the action. I agree with Bengt. The Rifle range is 14" and so is Surprise because until you actually decide to spend Focus when declaring the Rifle shot your range is 14". You don`t get to declare the rifle shot until someone is within 14" of the Changeling (We had a discussion about it so I bumped it up a bit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 solkan Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 11 hours ago, Bengt said: I think no. "Surprise!" have to have its conditions fulfilled before you can declare the Action and have a chance to use Focus. By that interpretation, the Friekorps Tracker would never be able to declare an attack against a model in the 14-28" range area. Because the Friekorps Trapper has to get the range of the Attack changed to 28 by the time it gets to paragraph four, too: Quote It is during this step that the model declares a target. Unless specified by the Action, the target must be in range, and the model must have Line of Sight to the target. Line of Sight (LoS) and Range are discussed further on page 40. vs. Quote When this Attack Action gains the benefits of the Focused Condition, increase its range to 28. in the rules for the Clockwork Rifle Attack Action. So the text in Surprise Quote Surprise!: Once per Turn, when an enemy model ends a push or move that is not part of a Walk or Charge Action within the range of an Attack Action this model may take, this model may immediately take the Action targeting the model which pushed or moved. appears essentially to be there to prevent declaration of an attack outside of valid ranges without arbitrarily limiting the range of the ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Ludvig Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 I'm not allowed to downvote my own suggestion but I feel myself agreeing more and more with Bengt and Trikk and less and less with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 WWHSD Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, bedjy said: Question regarding that engagement range. What is the engagement range of the changeling ? When does the changeling choose what (1) attack action it has ? If he is close to a model with 1 and a model with 3, do you have both engagement range ? the one you want ? none ? So, if I want to go from 1" to 2", does it have a disengaging strike to do ? Then if i want to go from 2" to more than 3" ? Can i interact ? The FAQ answers that one. The Changeling doesn't have an engagement range so can never make a disengaging strike. '116. The Changeling’s Copycat Ability allows them to take the Attacks of other models; how does this affect their engagement range? It does not. Actions which Changelings may be able to take due to Copycat are not factored in when determing whether a model is engaged for the purposes of disengaging strikes, shooting into combat, etc.' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ludvig Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 Yes, you check the range after choosing to use focus so if you use it the range is 28". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ludvig Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 I think Bengt makes a good point. You can't use focus before measuring if you're within range of the surprise ability which is different from using focus on the trapper's declared action. The question is if the focused range can be considered the "range" of the action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Adran Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Mainly bumping because this is being discussed again. Surprise allows you to attack a model within your range. At the time you look for range with surprise, they aren't benefiting from Focus, so the clockwork rifle is only 14" range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Angelshard Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 What about stealing an austringers attack then? Wouldn't you be able to declare that if the target wasn't in LoS because you have to declare the attack to ignore LoS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ludvig Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Angelshard said: What about stealing an austringers attack then? Wouldn't you be able to declare that if the target wasn't in LoS because you have to declare the attack to ignore LoS? Why qouldn't you? Unless it is misquoted here, the ability doesn't mention LoS anywhere so it's 100% legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Adran Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 You could use your surprise ability on any attack that you can't see, its just when you go to make the attack, it will fail if it does need LOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ceodoc Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Just spotted this, I think I will fall on the side of surprise cannot trigger on the 'focused' range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Angelshard Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 True. I guess I'm just used to LoS being a requirement for everything. I think I'm falling on the side of 14" range too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 bedjy Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 Question regarding that engagement range. What is the engagement range of the changeling ? When does the changeling choose what (1) attack action it has ? If he is close to a model with 1 and a model with 3, do you have both engagement range ? the one you want ? none ? So, if I want to go from 1" to 2", does it have a disengaging strike to do ? Then if i want to go from 2" to more than 3" ? Can i interact ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 bedjy Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 47 minutes ago, WWHSD said: The FAQ answers that one. The Changeling doesn't have an engagement range so can never make a disengaging strike. Thank you ! Next time, I'll check there first 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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isilmeon
I have a Changeling with a focus and he stands near friendly Fraikorps Trapper. If the enemy model push in range with 28 inches from the Changeling, can he able to attack with his Surprise! ability, using a trapper attack and focus?
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