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Alexander Tsikarev

Severe terrain - how to calculate movement (rules clarification request)

Question

Case 1: A 30 mm model is starting its move in severe terrain 1'' away from its edge. It has Wk6 and it is moving directly towards the edge in a straight line. How long will it be able to move? 1 inch in the severe terrain and 4 inches in normal terrain?

Case 2: A 50 mm model is starting its move so that half of the model is in severe terrain, and half is in normal terrain. It has Wk6. If it is going to leave the terrain, will it suffer some penalty for being in severe terrain? How much penalty will it receive?

Case 3: same as in case 2, but the model will be moving along the edge of severe terrain partially staying in it. What will be the penalties for it?

UPD:

Case 4: a model is crossing severe terrain. Is it suffering severe terrain penalty all the time the model is within the terrain? Should I apply the x2 multiplier to the path travelled AND the size of the base?

UPD2:

There isnt a clear answer in the rules and the FAQ, so i think it would be nice to see an official clarification on the matter

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As long as any part of the base is touching the terrain, it has to pay the penalty for moving within such terrain. Thus, the answers to your questions are:

1) In this case, it is easier to measure from the rear end of the base. Thus, you have to pay 2" (1" distance to the terrain edge x2 for being severe) + 60mm (depth of the base x2 until all of the base has left the terrain) to have your model completely outside of the terrain. Then you can take the rest of the movement

2) It will suffer a penalty, but the penalty depends on how the model will move. As long as any part of its base is inside the terrain, the model has to pay double the walk distance.

3) If the whole movement is partially inside the terrain, the whole suffers the x2 penalty.

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1 hour ago, Goret said:

I don't read it that way!

page 44.
 

Movement
Model movement is an important part of any Encounter. Models jockey for
positions from which they can Attack one another, or rush to grab the critical
objectives needed to win an Encounter.
Models may change positions on the table in several ways. The most common way
for a model to move is when it spends AP to perform the Walk or Charge Actions.
Any time a model is moving across the table it is called movement, or the model’s
move.

To move a model measure from the point of its base closest to the direction it will
be moving
. Determine how far the model will be moving, and then move the model
that distance, ensuring no part of the model moves further than that distance.


Movement & Terrain
All terrain in Malifaux has a base. Areas of terrain can effect movement which
occurs within the terrain’s base. This is defined for each piece of terrain when
players discuss terrain while setting up an Encounter (see pg. 71).
Some terrain will have the severe trait. This is any terrain that constantly makes
movement more difficult, such as muddy ground, shallow water, or even snow.
Moving through severe terrain costs double the distance moved. For instance, 1” of
movement would be treated as 2” of movement.


The way i read it, the movement starts from the edge of the base closest to the direction you will be moving.

If the edge of the base is on the edge of severe terrain, and you move out of the severe terrain, you should not suffer the double movement. I cannot find anything about any portion of the base still being in terrain when trying to leave severe terrain being affected by it.

I might ofc be wrong, but the rules as written do not indicate that you have to switch from measuring from the back of the base.

 

The whole model moves the same distance, so as long as you're measuring from the same point to the same point it's all the same.  Just like the whole model is being moved.

So when someone say "measure from the front of the model" or "measure from the back of the model", it's a matter of convenience or minimizing errors.  That doesn't change the fact that the whole base is getting moved.

 

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2 hours ago, Goret said:

I don't read it that way!

page 44.
 

Movement
Model movement is an important part of any Encounter. Models jockey for
positions from which they can Attack one another, or rush to grab the critical
objectives needed to win an Encounter.
Models may change positions on the table in several ways. The most common way
for a model to move is when it spends AP to perform the Walk or Charge Actions.
Any time a model is moving across the table it is called movement, or the model’s
move.

To move a model measure from the point of its base closest to the direction it will
be moving
. Determine how far the model will be moving, and then move the model
that distance, ensuring no part of the model moves further than that distance.


Movement & Terrain
All terrain in Malifaux has a base. Areas of terrain can effect movement which
occurs within the terrain’s base. This is defined for each piece of terrain when
players discuss terrain while setting up an Encounter (see pg. 71).
Some terrain will have the severe trait. This is any terrain that constantly makes
movement more difficult, such as muddy ground, shallow water, or even snow.
Moving through severe terrain costs double the distance moved. For instance, 1” of
movement would be treated as 2” of movement.


The way i read it, the movement starts from the edge of the base closest to the direction you will be moving.

If the edge of the base is on the edge of severe terrain, and you move out of the severe terrain, you should not suffer the double movement. I cannot find anything about any portion of the base still being in terrain when trying to leave severe terrain being affected by it.

I might ofc be wrong, but the rules as written do not indicate that you have to switch from measuring from the back of the base.

 

It says trying to move through severe terrain costs double. Where are you seeing that it implies that you're only moving through severe terrain if it's "in front" of the model.

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2 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

It says trying to move through severe terrain costs double. Where are you seeing that it implies that you're only moving through severe terrain if it's "in front" of the model.

As i said, i might very well be wrong... i just don't find anything pointing out that you have to take into consideration the back of the base when you are leaving severe terrain, nor that it state any portion of the base. Page 44 mainly states you perform the movement by measuring from the front of the base, then move the model that many inches, any movement going trough severe costs double.

In other words, movement = the way ahead of the model.

If you have to take into consideration the back of the base, well the rules aren't clear about that from what i was able to find.

 

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As long as any part of your base is within the terrain, you have to pay double the movement, as you are still within the terrain and thus have to pay the double movement. Yes, you measure from the front of the base, but you still have to consider the whole base of the model, like in any other case (e.g. finishing on top of sth.). Measuring from the back of the base just speeds things up.

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3 hours ago, Goret said:

As i said, i might very well be wrong... i just don't find anything pointing out that you have to take into consideration the back of the base when you are leaving severe terrain, nor that it state any portion of the base. Page 44 mainly states you perform the movement by measuring from the front of the base, then move the model that many inches, any movement going trough severe costs double.

In other words, movement = the way ahead of the model.

If you have to take into consideration the back of the base, well the rules aren't clear about that from what i was able to find.

 

All that severe terrain cares about is that you are in it while moving. It doesn't care if you're measuring through it. 

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7 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

All that severe terrain cares about is that you are in it while moving. It doesn't care if you're measuring through it. 

I get what you are saying (it is how it is handled in most tabletop games), and most people i asked agree with you.
But, no one is pointing me out to a section in the rule stating "while within" or "any portion of the base going trough...

page 44 reads
"To move a model measure from the point of its base closest to the direction it will
be moving. Determine how far the model will be moving, and then move the model
that distance, ensuring no part of the model moves further than that distance.
"

So the model moved the distance from the point of the base closest to the direction it will be moving up to the point it ends the movement. so the distance between those 2 points is as i read it on page 74 the area where terrain would be checked.

"Severe - Areas of severe terrain slow a model’s movement. Moving through severe
terrain
costs double the distance moved. For instance, 1” of movement would be
treated as 2” of movement
."

Now, if i compare the wording to hazardous terrain.

"Hazardous - Terrain that is considered hazardous deals damage to models that
Activate while within it, or enter it
(if they are pushed, moved, or placed within the
terrain). ...
"

I know, it might be lazy rule writing and both would have to mean the same thing... in which case i blame the wording

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2 hours ago, Goret said:

I get what you are saying (it is how it is handled in most tabletop games), and most people i asked agree with you.
But, no one is pointing me out to a section in the rule stating "while within" or "any portion of the base going trough...

page 44 reads
"To move a model measure from the point of its base closest to the direction it will
be moving. Determine how far the model will be moving, and then move the model
that distance, ensuring no part of the model moves further than that distance.
"

So the model moved the distance from the point of the base closest to the direction it will be moving up to the point it ends the movement. so the distance between those 2 points is as i read it on page 74 the area where terrain would be checked.

"Severe - Areas of severe terrain slow a model’s movement. Moving through severe
terrain
costs double the distance moved. For instance, 1” of movement would be
treated as 2” of movement
."

Now, if i compare the wording to hazardous terrain.

"Hazardous - Terrain that is considered hazardous deals damage to models that
Activate while within it, or enter it
(if they are pushed, moved, or placed within the
terrain). ...
"

I know, it might be lazy rule writing and both would have to mean the same thing... in which case i blame the wording

To move through something means that you are in it at some point along the way. It's on you to prove that a model moving while still within severe terrain is not moving through it. The wording difference is because severe terrain is continuous and hazardous isn't.

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I don't read it that way!

page 44.
 

Movement
Model movement is an important part of any Encounter. Models jockey for
positions from which they can Attack one another, or rush to grab the critical
objectives needed to win an Encounter.
Models may change positions on the table in several ways. The most common way
for a model to move is when it spends AP to perform the Walk or Charge Actions.
Any time a model is moving across the table it is called movement, or the model’s
move.

To move a model measure from the point of its base closest to the direction it will
be moving
. Determine how far the model will be moving, and then move the model
that distance, ensuring no part of the model moves further than that distance.


Movement & Terrain
All terrain in Malifaux has a base. Areas of terrain can effect movement which
occurs within the terrain’s base. This is defined for each piece of terrain when
players discuss terrain while setting up an Encounter (see pg. 71).
Some terrain will have the severe trait. This is any terrain that constantly makes
movement more difficult, such as muddy ground, shallow water, or even snow.
Moving through severe terrain costs double the distance moved. For instance, 1” of
movement would be treated as 2” of movement.


The way i read it, the movement starts from the edge of the base closest to the direction you will be moving.

If the edge of the base is on the edge of severe terrain, and you move out of the severe terrain, you should not suffer the double movement. I cannot find anything about any portion of the base still being in terrain when trying to leave severe terrain being affected by it.

I might ofc be wrong, but the rules as written do not indicate that you have to switch from measuring from the back of the base.

 

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