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Misaki's niche?

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As a Thunders player recently moved to Outcasts I've been pondering this, especially as the internet likes to cast aspersions at Outcast Misaki.

In Thunders I've used her similar to the Viks. There she has access to Sensei Yu and Recalled Training so becomes a very long range, high damage missile.

In Outcasts I'm seeing her differently. I actually think she might be better to concentrate on her Assassinate trigger in an anti-charge crew. Give her Disguise and bounce her around the board tapping models for Assassinate. The models that might key into this would fufill soulstone generation(S), charge denial(C) or card drain(D). Models that spring to mind are Ronin(C,S), Desperate Mercs(C, S, D), Hodgepodge Effigy (S) and Desolation Engine (D).

I think she'll still be a niche pick in Outcasts but this is where I plan to start with her.

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I've always found that it's easier to stop the viktorias, killing one usually stops alot of the tricks they can do such as slingshotting blood, sister healing flips and so on.

That being said, I see some potential in viktorias... but I think they are alot harder to play properly

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Misaki with disguise, oath keeper, smoke and shadows 3

Ashes and Dust, scramble

2 Ronin

2 Oiran

2 Desperate Mercenaries

No model in the crew can be charged.

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It could work if the VP pool is predominantly combat oriented. It's its interact or marker heavy, your Disguised is completely going to waste, and you're paying a fair amount of SS for that ability to be printed on the front of each of your cards. I'm not sure if 2 Oiran are a good fit either; I can't help but feel like you're hiring them just because they also happen to have Disguised. I think Oiran are an 0-1 hire, due to their aura not stacking (diminishing returns and all that). I could be wrong, but they seem so underwhelming. At least Ronin and Desperate Mercs have a way to give you a SS back if things go tits-up so you don't feel as bad hiring them.

I wonder if Rusty Alyce is worth considering here. She is expensive, but she can protect herself AND nearby friendlies from being charged, so you could bring in more variety of models and still maintain a core that is immune to charges, rather than picking models literally on their ability to not be charged. Rusty Alyce holding the centre or one flank with whatever models you deem appropriate, with a Ronin and a Desperate Merc out on their own picking fights, while Misaki does Misaki-things.  These 3 only cost you 20ss + upgrades so you'd have plenty to spend on whatever is going to earn you your VP and whatever wants to sit near Rusty for protection.

At the very least it sounds like a tonne of fun.

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I agree it's not a very good list, but I think I might try it a few times for the laughs.

Rusty Alyce, or Hamelin's pipes aura are certainly other ways of interfering with charge actions, but there is some humour in being able to say whenever someone says, "I'll charge..." saying in response, "No, you won't."

And when you want to run schemes and interact you have Misaki and Ashes who are both rather quick.

It's a gimmick list really, and like all gimmick lists it'll probably work once and then go down to whoever decided to bring guns.

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Alyce was on my mind too. Her Rapid Fire can force opponents to use cards plus if you end up out-activating there's an opportunity to reactivate the Deso Engine. She might make a good Desperate Merc babysitter come gunplatform though that makes their Disguised redundant.

Agree about Oiran. They become feasible with their upgrade but that's Thunders only, which is a pity as it would sit well on Alyce. Plus all the crows in my Misaki crew are going to be going to Misaki.

Also I see the anti-Charge thing as just one piece. Many crews just won't care, especially the caster blasters. But heavy damage tends to come from Melee attacks and what you'd be doing is basically slowing up Melee based crews, which would give the guns more time to cause problems.

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I always thought her thing was going heavy last-blossom to smoke and shadows the living hell out of your opponent with spider demons and Asian pirates.

Also, in Outcasts the Emissary can do schemes instead of fighting, which is a good thing

 

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Misaki + 2 Pool
- Stalking Bisento (2)
- Scout The Field (1)
- Oath Keeper (1)
Shang (3)
Yamaziko (7)
- Smoke & Shadows (1)
Hodgepodge Emissary (10)
- Conflux of Thunder (0)
Jorogumo (9)
Wokou Raider (8)
Wokou Raider (8)

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Whilst shadow stride is fun, when you consider you have about a 60% chance of getting it off a turn it's not something that can be relied on. Even then it's probably lower as you may have something better to do with 12,13 of masks and red joker. 

When it works it's great, sometimes you'll get it off on 3 models in a turn, but on the other hand it's not uncommon to go 3 turns without getting it happening at all.

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16 hours ago, Freman said:

I agree it's not a very good list, but I think I might try it a few times for the laughs.

Rusty Alyce, or Hamelin's pipes aura are certainly other ways of interfering with charge actions, but there is some humour in being able to say whenever someone says, "I'll charge..." saying in response, "No, you won't."

And when you want to run schemes and interact you have Misaki and Ashes who are both rather quick.

It's a gimmick list really, and like all gimmick lists it'll probably work once and then go down to whoever decided to bring guns.

Certainly, it would be worth the laughs. I find the most fun lists are the ones ridiculously skewed one way or the other. Disguised is an ability I personally have an affinity for (I wish my factions had it more frequently) and I would totally build a similar list to you for shits and gigs.

On the real though, I think Misaki's Charge denial matters more than Hamelin's because she's actually in your opponent's face, stabbing them and making a nuisance of herself, while Hamelin is usually found kind of chilling in the back with an army of Minions and Peons (that you don't necessarily care about being Charged anyway). There are always some exceptions - perhaps you might run an extremely shooty list with Alyce, Sue, gunslingers, trappers etc, where Hamelin solely focuses on handing out AP and denying Charges - but for the most part I'd rather just have a highly accurate assassin master flinging herself this way and that, that the opponent really, really, wants to Charge, but can't.

Also, I think the two best ways to say, "no you can't Charge", is to engage the model that most wants to Charge to deny it the opportunity, or even more simply to lop it's head off, and Misaki seems to excel at these two tasks. I think the list you made could be very good at this in some scheme pools but I would still cut one or both Oiran, depending on the faction you face, for something a little more... well, more

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True, though if I dropped even one Oiran I'd also drop smoke and shadows as I wouldn't have enough Lost Blossom minions to take advantage of it. That'd give me a third Ronin, and they're not bad.

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On the subject of Misaki's infiltration ability, since there doesn't seem to be much else she brings to the party in Outcasts compared to another master, how do Outcasts benefit from her various options?

Ototo

Yamaziko

Oiran

Torakage

Jorogumo

Oiran obviously have a lure, but it is suited and we can hire Performers as mercenaries anyway. Leveticus can hire Rotton Belles and Jack can hire Jaakuna Ubume. Their inspirational aura might be helpful in situations where you expect a few WP duels.

Torakage appear to be fairly good schemers, and look decent in melee when they're on their own.

Yamaziko is a cheap henchman and with nimble she can get about fairly quickly.

Ototo seems pretty bashy, especially once he's under half wounds... although of course he's then under half wounds.

Jorogumo are very beaty, but also pretty pricy for a minion. However beaty minions are unusual in Outcasts, so that's a novelty.

I think, running Misaki, I'd try to squeeze one or two Jorogumo in, with either Misaki or Yamaziko carrying Smoke and Shadows for the ability to relocate across the board to a friendly model. That could be rather brutal under some circumstances.

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Woukou Raiders are basically better Jorogumo. The spider dudes were made to be summoned by Asami in my eyes.

 Double Wokou in the face Turn 2 might be dangerous.

Add the Emissary for fun auras and pushes and giving the two Chinese chicks Companion and Regen +1

 

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Misaki + 5 Pool
- Stalking Bisento (2)
- Oath Keeper (1)
- Survivalist (1)
Shang (3)
Yamaziko (7)
- Smoke & Shadows (1)
- Scramble (2)
Hodgepodge Emissary (10)
- Conflux of Thunder (0)
Wokou Raider (8)
Wokou Raider (8)
Hodgepodge Effigy (4)

 

 

But this is pure Theoryfaux, never tried Misaki

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I really haven't had much luck with Woukou Raiders. Ironically they seem to have more synergy with Parker than Misaki, if only because Parker does things with his crew while Misaki just goes and does her own thing.

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 Actually, between Ziko, Emissary and Oiran, outcast Misaki might be the schemiest of Misakis.

With her upgrade, the Emissary can do 3 scheme markers a turn, while everyone else is Disguised/Braced.

Damn. Now I gotta try Misaki.

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I have ran her as charge denial against viks, things like A&D, Alyce and Hans were in there. 

it was only because of bad cards or her attacking vik of ashes that she died and blood did nothing all game.

it is fun to do and with her move away action now being a 0 it  makes her really slippery to catch

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Misaki's niche (in Outcasts) is speed, being hard to lock down, and can attack sideways.

Comparing her to the Viks is a fallacy, or at least not that helpful if you are interested in evaluating Misaki's strengths. Viks are melee-brawler nukes, while Misaki is a guerrilla fighter. Misaki jumps about, does your schemes, kill opposing scheme runners, and is adept at killing Enforcers and Minions thanks to her trigger. The last part is an asterisk though, Misaki is an opportunistic killer rather than a world eater. Overall, I tend to think of her as a-plus interceptor. She is good at denying things while keeping her distance, by getting in and out of fights at will.

 

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I'm really coonfused of misaki tbh.
She feels like a mediocre beater at best (min damage 2), is kinda squishy. (even with the disguised upgrade) and lacks any comparable support for her last  blossom charaacteristic models. the  smoke bomb bury trick is very situational and card/suithungry.
If i compare her to daw... hes the better and tankyer beater. he can jump in and out of engagement as well AND actually offers synergies with his tormented characteristic models.

What can misaki do daw couldnt do better?

i ask because i really wanna get her working in outcast.

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@DXXXVIII For one, Misaki won't be obliterated by a couple of Katanaka Snipers, so maybe a substitute for Daw versus TT?

Ml 7 makes her one of the most reliable hitters in the faction, so maybe play her like a less-mobile, more sturdy Leveticus? Prey on the weak, then assassinate a key target, then get angrily murdered.

I do believe the common consensus is that there is no Misdirection in Outcasts to keep her alive, so maybe Survivalist then?

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daw has a cast meiee of7 as well and can pimp his minimum damage to 6... which makes him an even more reliable hitter. not getting obliiterated by snipers? hmmm... ok maybe.

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I have had success with a Soulstone cycling build using her as a very mobile scalpel. Something to remember is that she gains a :crow when she uses her last SS so if that is used for a :crow she can automatically trigger assassinate.  If she has the hodgepodge effigy's loyalty to the Coin she can then drop a card for a new stone if she kills a model.  I also use tally sheet to draw a card off the kill as well. Part of the setup have used is to use models like pride to put card pressure on the opponent.  The last time I ran this setup she dropped 5 models over the course of the game with the only direct support being the effigy's buff.  The rest of the crew was largely independently running schemes or supporting with ranged attacks.

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Misaki is going to take a bit of work to "get" for me. The 2/4/6 damage track is pretty bad unless you can get to positive flips (recalled training isn't available for us). Thunder is nice.

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On 05/03/2017 at 10:45 PM, DXXXVIII said:

daw has a cast meiee of7 as well and can pimp his minimum damage to 6... which makes him an even more reliable hitter. not getting obliiterated by snipers? hmmm... ok maybe.

How does he get to six? Isn't it 2 +1 (Bigger they are) +1 (firing squad I justice)?

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On 05/03/2017 at 10:45 PM, DXXXVIII said:

daw has a cast meiee of7 as well and can pimp his minimum damage to 6... which makes him an even more reliable hitter. not getting obliiterated by snipers? hmmm... ok maybe.

How does he get to six? Isn't it 2 +1 (Bigger they are) +1 (firing squad I justice)?

 

E: ah, and remember injustice.

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