The problem of Lure

[Fictor]

Hi again dudes!

I usually plays vs Ress and NeverB, and I think they can't imagine the power of lures, pushes like Siren Call of the performer can't be compared with that because it's so easy to counter, you only need cover with something and it stoped you in the push, and only have 12" range, but a walk can't be countered, and with 18" of reach and an amazing Ca7 they will move whatever they want.

In Malifaux the most important thing is positioning, for that reason pushes and moves enemy or alied models are OP, and if you can't be safe from that you are fucked.

Yes, I know things like Counter spell stops it but, it's only for selected models and the rest of the crew continues on danger.

Also I know too the Roten be Cuddled the last time, and still be OP, IMO the reason of that is the hability, it's must be 12" of reach to expose a little the model or doesn't have the crow printed like Oiran or have Ca5 like Baby Kade...

[Adran]

I am really surprised you have a problem with Lure. From the posts of yours that I have read you have a very in your face style of play, which almost counters the power of Lure (after all they are spending their AP to do what you would spend your AP doing). Personally I didn't struggle with Ca 8 lures on a belle (because I also have a very in your face style) and didn't see the need for that to be reduced, so I'm not going to agree with you that it is over powered. 

I will agree Lure can be good in certain games, and knowing that your opponent has a model with Lure means you will have to play more carefully to score some position based scoring, but its not impossible to deal with. 

 

[Fictor]

To be honest... if your opponent is retarded can Lure a Howard without activated or something like that, but if not, he'll lure something activated to kill it...

[Tris]

26 minutes ago, Fictor said:

To be honest... if your opponent is retarded can Lure a Howard without activated or something like that, but if not, he'll lure something activated to kill it...

Hi Fictor - please, don`t go down that route, the same could be said about avoiding your alpha strikes

And there is a way to avoid being lured - stay out of LoS, out of range. Get an aura in your crew to put Ca Attacks on a . Try to stand behind obstacles, put other models in the way - you won`t be able to completely block your path, but you won`t go your full walk towards them.

And - just be prepared to be lured, just like you have to be prepared to lose models over the course of a game.

 

Also, as Adran said: you tend to rush them anyways (at least that`s my impression after reading your recent posts), so being lured shouldn`t be a problem for you - how can he lure something activated that hasn`t done his job - if he lures Howard who had his go, a significant chunk of his crew should be dead ^^

[Adran]

On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:12 AM, Fictor said:

To be honest... if your opponent is retarded can Lure a Howard without activated or something like that, but if not, he'll lure something activated to kill it...

I could counter that with if you activate something and leave it vulnerable to being lured to its death then you have also been stupid. There are plenty of in faction  options to make this a risk for your opponent, ranging from the simple (using Colette to prompt) to re-activate ( Again Colette, but also potentially Ramos and Marcus) to adding your own movement tricks (Sandeep, Angelica, Captain, Tooth and Claw, Oxfordian mages, Snow storm, Ironsides, performers) to having exploding models (ice gamin, fire gamin, snow storm, Kill switch, Willie) and making CA actions harder (Counter spell, Neitehr Flux, Vent steam). 

Is there always an Ideal answer? no, but I find its rare that I can't deal with it in game. 

If they have a small number of Lures, I can play around it. If they have hired 3 or more models of lure, then they have expended a significant number of points (1/3rd the crew) on making it work, and I try and use my equivilent points to score.

Lure is one of those things that is at its strongest when its used against elite crews because they are using AP to move you. You can typically use the same amount of AP to move back, but if they generate more AP than you, then thats overall a losing battle. This might be why you find it so strong against you, because also you seem to build very delicate positioning based set ups which can be disrupted by unplanned movement. I am more likely to build a list with less positioning requirements, so I'm less worried about the relative positions of my models. 

And I know you can complain that they are able to pull you out of turf war/Guard the stash type locations, but to do so, they also need to be out of those scoring positions with the luring model. (Again making it better against the elite crew). 

 

[Tris]

Oh, and one more thing - the rules discussion forum is not the right place for a thread like this, it`s for asking actual rules questions, not for meta discussions

 

Maybe a Mod could relocate the whole thread to, don`t know, the resser forum?

[Artiee]

What is your rules question?

[mythicFOX]

<modhat>

Moved as not a rules discussion.  

Also please avoid the use of derogatory language.

</modhat>

[Ergonomic Cat]

I love love love Lures.  Even if you were planning to get your entire crew up to me, I'm still doing it in an order you didn't mean, and dictating where they go and, ideally, getting them there one at a time, rather than in a batch.  I know you are prepared to bring your beaters up in my face and fight.  But I don't think you're prepared for *1* model to be in the middle of my whole crew while the rest of your crew works on just getting there.

If I do pounces right, that model can be dead before you even get your next one there.

[bertmac]

As long as you have enough blocking/dense terrain unless they've taken 3 or more things with lure it isn't that hard to deal with. Even then if you aren't out activated you shouldn't have to have activated your beater before their lurers and if you have they have probably already gone with their big beater so yours is relatively safe!

[Ergonomic Cat]

1 minute ago, bertmac said:

As long as you have enough blocking/dense terrain unless they've taken 3 or more things with lure it isn't that hard to deal with. Even then if you aren't out activated you shouldn't have to have activated your beater before their lurers and if you have they have probably already gone with their big beater so yours is relatively safe!

My current obsession is two Autumn Knights and Lilitu, or Titania with her Lure, Lilitu and a Knight.

I've put The Thorn, The Tooth, Lilitu and Lelu in several crews lately to abuse Lures and Pounce.  It's super fun.

[bertmac]

11 minutes ago, Ergonomic Cat said:

My current obsession is two Autumn Knights and Lilitu, or Titania with her Lure, Lilitu and a Knight.

I've put The Thorn, The Tooth, Lilitu and Lelu in several crews lately to abuse Lures and Pounce.  It's super fun.

I'm a fan of Lilitu doppleganger and lilith with living blade and wicked mistress.

[Ergonomic Cat]

12 minutes ago, bertmac said:

I'm a fan of Lilitu doppleganger and lilith with living blade and wicked mistress.

I'm putting it in Lucius, Lilith, Zoraida, Titania - anywhere it can go.  Lilith with her Sword o' Doom is next on my list!