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DanteJH

Making the whiskey golem great again! P1

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Hello all and welcome to a new series of posts I'm starting called making the whiskey golem great again. For the last two months I've been using the whiskey golem in almost every game I play in an effort to make you lovely bayou denizens what to put him on the table! To kick it off, this week we'll be looking at crews and masters he plays nice with, upgrades and when to take him. Feedback is greatly appreciate and I'd really like to get some good conversation going on.

 

The first thing I wanna talk about is what masters he synergies well with. In my games I have found that zipp and his crew have a place for the golem and good construct support is a major part of it as one of his main issues is that he isnt a gremlin or a pig so he doesn't synergies well. Earl burns provides easy healing and in all my games he's only died once (and that was due to an Insta kill trigger). I'm also looking into sparks at the moment as I'm sure he would help greatly but unfortunately I'm a student with no job. Somer goes well with everyone and this is true for the golem as well. I have found that using the golem as a screen for the slop hauler has made a huge difference in my games as he usually dies turn 1/2. Having the slop hauler survive till turn 3 means an extra 3-9 wounds from his healing and as we know our bayou boyz like to hurt themselves. I'm very aware that he was designed for brewy but he's one of the masters I don't have yet and again, I have no money. I've also used him extensively with ophelia and zoraida. There are ZERO synergies with ophelia or her crew and is easily outclassed so he should really only be taken in the scenarios listed later. Mamma Z has a few things she can do for him, the first of which is boosting him to df 7 by making him used "fine craftsmanship" or giving him heals through smokey finish. Other than that should only be used in the scenarios that come a little later.

An interesting thing is that him being an enforcer means that he has an upgrade slot. The three upgrades I've been testing are Angery drunk, a two stone upgrade that gives him flurry, barrel up, a 0 cost upgrade that gives him a trigger on a Rams and tomes to heal after damaging, and hide in the mud which is a 1 stone upgrade that gives him soft cover all the time. We'll talk about angry drunk first and what's there to say, it's not worth the cost. While the golem does have nimble meaning he can walk then flurry, he really does want to be boosting his df to 7 every turn. I have had some memorable moments like killing a him killing a teddy on his own and murdering a frank but it's not worth making him a 12 stone model because you don't get it off that often. Next we'll talk about hide in the mud. This is one of the better upgrades I've looked into and has been very effective. Df 7 with negatives to hit makes him impossible to shoot. If you anticipate a shooty crew take it, it's well worth the stone. Last is barrel up which is the one I've used the least. It seems to be the best choice numbers wise and it's a zero stone cost so why wouldn't you. It's the upgrade I'm using at the moment just because of the heals which is a 50% chance on every attack by the way. Also, a few of you might mention dirty cheater but he really doesn't need it and others will get much better use out of it.

Finally, when do I take him? Unless he synergies well with the leader or crew I'm only taking this guy for a few scenarios. Stake a claim, guard the stash, squatters rights and headhunter are the strategies I'll take him in. The first couple are because if he's fantastic at holding points. I once had a mei Feng wail on him with all of her AP and extra attach triggers and have the golem almost at full at the start of the next turn. He is very durable with a LOT of healing options and let's not forget his defensive trigger which I think is extremely underrated. For those of you who don't know on a built in mask after he is damaged by a melee attach the target must pass a WP duel or end their activation immediately and get +2 poison. You'd be surprised how much it comes up and people will throw a card if it's their first AP. On to stake a claim his nimble makes him a good marker dropper and he can move 6 then drop each turn and as stated above his hard to put down, finally his durability and nimble also helps out in headhunter for keeping alive and snatching those heads. Finally if inspection comes up he is a strong consideration for me and I bet you can guess why.

Next time we will be adressing common issues with the golem and work around for them. Well also be talking about bad scenarios and bad match ups. Thanks for reading, I've wanted to put this up for a long but but didn't feel like if played him enough till now. Please comment anything you'd like me to address in future and most importantly what you think about what I've said.

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All great ideas, but I must say, I'm not sold yet. I gave whiskey golem his fair number of tests and he under-performed in all of them (with only one being with brewie, the rest with Somer and Mah). If you want something resistant and that can deal solid damages, Burt does the same (if supported he can last even more) for 3 ss less. If you want a fast scheme runner, for 10ss you have fingers, and for  have Merris. Than, at 10ss, if you want a tank I think both the emissary and Gracie works better.

But it's just my opinion, and I was probably using him wrong since you seem to find a good place for him :) the thing that annoy me the most is that he's forced to waste 1ap to get to 7df, making him take a walk and a single attack/interact, if you don't want it to be in a dangerous spot. I'll keep an eye on the post tho, since I really like the model and I'm willing to change my mind onthe subject :) 

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1 hour ago, EpicWaffle said:

All great ideas, but I must say, I'm not sold yet. I gave whiskey golem his fair number of tests and he under-performed in all of them (with only one being with brewie, the rest with Somer and Mah). If you want something resistant and that can deal solid damages, Burt does the same (if supported he can last even more) for 3 ss less. If you want a fast scheme runner, for 10ss you have fingers, and for  have Merris. Than, at 10ss, if you want a tank I think both the emissary and Gracie works better.

But it's just my opinion, and I was probably using him wrong since you seem to find a good place for him :) the thing that annoy me the most is that he's forced to waste 1ap to get to 7df, making him take a walk and a single attack/interact, if you don't want it to be in a dangerous spot. I'll keep an eye on the post tho, since I really like the model and I'm willing to change my mind onthe subject :) 

Thanks for replying EpicWaffle, I'll be sure to address everything you've said in my next post which I hope to put out next soon but I'll give you the short version. I'm afraid I can't agree with fingers, it's very important to factor in just how fast he is. My issue with fingers is that he doesn't do much besides schemes. Going back to his speed, the golem can very easily transition after he's done with the scheme to any other job that the crew needs done and further more he's just so much more durable. People point to fingers as being so good because of his in built healing but the whiskey golem and do that whenever he hits someone AND has plus 1 armour. On top of that he can put our way more damage and tie up way more models a which a good tank should be able to do. I really do feel like the golem strait outclassed fingers.

I've never use Merris or Gracie so I may be wrong but I've played against Merris and she didn't impress me. Never had anything to do with Gracie but I'm aware she's amazing.

Ill be talking about Burt and Frank in the next post as they are used to compare the whiskey golem with a lot and I'd like like to go into more  detail.

As a last note you are SO RIGHT about spending the AP the defence. A big learning curve for me was when to use it and when the kick something teeth in but it is still really annoying that you have to do it but I'll address it in the next post and hopefully convince you that he's worth it

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1 hour ago, DanteJH said:

I really do feel like the golem strait outclassed fingers.

I've never use Merris or Gracie so I may be wrong but I've played against Merris and she didn't impress me. Never had anything to do with Gracie but I'm aware she's amazing

But good ol' wishkey golem already needs an ap to give himself defense 7, or else he's done, and although he's nimble he also has a pretty big base and a baffling 1 inch reach melee attack (for whatever reason) so not a lot of actions left to do much of anything. Fingers not only gives you your schemes, he also destroys your opponent schemes in two different ways. Same with merris: she's not nimble but she's reckles, she can fly and and she can drop markers for 0 for much less of the cost of the golem.

Comparing both of them with the golem is a bad idea because they're not designed for the same purpose. the golem is a tank trough and trough.

But the problem is that Gracie cost the same and is more resilient, with more damage and, since she can reactivate, technicaly faster and with more opportunities to make schemes, as needed, in a pinch. Sure she hurts herself, but she can also heal without needing a specific suit.

Another model that can take a lot of punishment is Mancha Roja; he can get to defense 7 with a 0, has 10 wounds and hard to wound, and he's a henchman. He also deals more damage and has a variety of triggers that can be very useful for the entire crew.

I think as a tank Wishkey golem can be better because of his defense trigger, and Macha Roja is more geared to pure combat and, as such, less flexible, but that would be a problem depending on the rest of the crew.

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I'm no expert on the Whiskey as I've never played him nor played against him, but I've pilfered the stat card enough to see his strengths and weaknesses. I'm not sure if by this thread you're asking for suggested buff s, or if you're trying to find a different play style that he suddenly fits magically into that nobody has thought to use before. It seems like the latter.

I honestly think he's undertuned stats and actions wise, although his front card abilities seem great. WP duels to end an activation, especially on a charge are nice, if you only may get it off once or twice per game. It's a good way to check someone's hand though. The poison is moot for most of the green masters. With my luck I'd always expect it on a second attack or one that'd already end their activation so, for me at least, the chance of getting it off is rare, the chance it DOES anything with that ability is rarer still. 

What he needs, if I am gonna flex my buff muscles, is at least a 2" melee range with 3" preferred (please, 1" doesn't even make sense xD). And a taunt/push. Not Challenge though as that would make him compete too much with Mancha, I'd love to see Whiskey to be able to run around the side and force someone to make a charge at him from a bad spot (assuming the Ca duel succeeds and what not). I'd word it like "Target model must push it's charge towards Whiskey Golem, if it ends in base contact (or some wording for melee range) it must make 2 Ml attacks with a cost of 1. If the target has Poison +1, any Attack flips generated by this action suffer Negative Twist."

The reason I suggest this is synergy.

Almost every gremlin master could want a model like that. He can be a runner turned protector to Somer, a Melee Beater for Mah, another lure for Brewie (with the potential added bonus of passing out poison to chargers), a powerful Obey target for Mama Z, not sure about Zipp but I've heard good strats about Earl and Constructs, Wong might care the least since his play style is so straightforward, although any model that can move things around he likes for blast purposes, and Ulix might not care much either other than protection but he has his bacon for that. 

In regards to fluff, I'd try to run Whiskey with Brewie just cuz I like themes and making it work, and it might plug up a hole (or spring a better leak ;D) in Brewie's lists by upping that engage range and being able to act as a charge bodyguard, while also getting models stuck in the contest. I'm sure there are other things, but I could justify a taunt thematically as well. "Look fellers! It's beautiful! Downright gorgeous! Les get it!" 

I appreciate you taking the time to post! I hope you can build the Whiskey of your dreams. 

 

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7 hours ago, Macumazahn said:

But good ol' wishkey golem already needs an ap to give himself defense 7, or else he's done, and although he's nimble he also has a pretty big base and a baffling 1 inch reach melee attack (for whatever reason) so not a lot of actions left to do much of anything. Fingers not only gives you your schemes, he also destroys your opponent schemes in two different ways. Same with merris: she's not nimble but she's reckles, she can fly and and she can drop markers for 0 for much less of the cost of the golem.

Comparing both of them with the golem is a bad idea because they're not designed for the same purpose. the golem is a tank trough and trough.

But the problem is that Gracie cost the same and is more resilient, with more damage and, since she can reactivate, technicaly faster and with more opportunities to make schemes, as needed, in a pinch. Sure she hurts herself, but she can also heal without needing a specific suit.

Another model that can take a lot of punishment is Mancha Roja; he can get to defense 7 with a 0, has 10 wounds and hard to wound, and he's a henchman. He also deals more damage and has a variety of triggers that can be very useful for the entire crew.

I think as a tank Wishkey golem can be better because of his defense trigger, and Macha Roja is more geared to pure combat and, as such, less flexible, but that would be a problem depending on the rest of the crew.

Thanks for replying and I'll be sure to address some of these things in my next post but lemme tell you, I've been getting much more work out of the golem by switching jobs with him on the fly. I can use him for schemes one turn (he can do claim jump by himself!), tanking for the next turn and then beating someone's face in. I know that the ap fir df 7 is annoying but I'll be sure to talk about that in the next post where I address his issues. Thanks again for replying and I hope I can get you to put him on the table by the end of this.

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5 hours ago, SAYNE said:

I'm no expert on the Whiskey as I've never played him nor played against him, but I've pilfered the stat card enough to see his strengths and weaknesses. I'm not sure if by this thread you're asking for suggested buff s, or if you're trying to find a different play style that he suddenly fits magically into that nobody has thought to use before. It seems like the latter.

I honestly think he's undertuned stats and actions wise, although his front card abilities seem great. WP duels to end an activation, especially on a charge are nice, if you only may get it off once or twice per game. It's a good way to check someone's hand though. The poison is moot for most of the green masters. With my luck I'd always expect it on a second attack or one that'd already end their activation so, for me at least, the chance of getting it off is rare, the chance it DOES anything with that ability is rarer still. 

What he needs, if I am gonna flex my buff muscles, is at least a 2" melee range with 3" preferred (please, 1" doesn't even make sense xD). And a taunt/push. Not Challenge though as that would make him compete too much with Mancha, I'd love to see Whiskey to be able to run around the side and force someone to make a charge at him from a bad spot (assuming the Ca duel succeeds and what not). I'd word it like "Target model must push it's charge towards Whiskey Golem, if it ends in base contact (or some wording for melee range) it must make 2 Ml attacks with a cost of 1. If the target has Poison +1, any Attack flips generated by this action suffer Negative Twist."

The reason I suggest this is synergy.

Almost every gremlin master could want a model like that. He can be a runner turned protector to Somer, a Melee Beater for Mah, another lure for Brewie (with the potential added bonus of passing out poison to chargers), a powerful Obey target for Mama Z, not sure about Zipp but I've heard good strats about Earl and Constructs, Wong might care the least since his play style is so straightforward, although any model that can move things around he likes for blast purposes, and Ulix might not care much either other than protection but he has his bacon for that. 

In regards to fluff, I'd try to run Whiskey with Brewie just cuz I like themes and making it work, and it might plug up a hole (or spring a better leak ;D) in Brewie's lists by upping that engage range and being able to act as a charge bodyguard, while also getting models stuck in the contest. I'm sure there are other things, but I could justify a taunt thematically as well. "Look fellers! It's beautiful! Downright gorgeous! Les get it!" 

I appreciate you taking the time to post! I hope you can build the Whiskey of your dreams. 

 

Thanks a lot, I really do hope I can make people see him like I do and yes, your right I am trying to find a new play style for him and I think I've almost found it! In terms of buffs he really needs a base of df 6 and something to do with that poison he hands out. Might be as simple as more damage to poisoned enemies or having poisoned enemies be less likely to hit A larger melee range would be nice but with his large base size it can be ok. Thanks for replying and I hope to see your thoughts again in the next post!

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Whiskey Golem is better at running certain very specific schemes better than Fingers or Merris, primarily Breakthrough or any scheme that requires markers on the opponents half of the board.

If Merris tries to go and run Breakthrough usually the players I play against will either send someone chasing after her or shoot her down with a sniper. She only has 6 wounds and no good defensive abilities or triggers. I have had her killed pretty reliably on turn 3 or 4, which usually is not enough time to get the scheme she is running completed. 

In general you will not want Fingers going deep into enemy territory to run schemes because that is a waste of his abilities chatty and don't mind me, he really wants to be mixing it up with the primary enemy force to run schemes like Distract, Plant Explosives, or Exhaust Their Forces. Using him to run something like Breakthrough effectively you would need to use Reckless pretty much every turn; with only 9 wounds the opponent can make sure that either he stops feeling comfortable doing Reckless or kill him by doing 6 points of damage to him by turn 3, which is not to difficult. Another way to neutralize him would be to just tie him down in melee, but don't actually attack him since he has Loudest Squeel.

Where the Whiskey Golem does better is he can triple walk for 18" in the first turn with no cost. Usually if I send him up a flank my opponent would rather not engage him, seeing as he is more dangerous then someone like Fingers who can only throw poison around or Merris who can do nothing to a model engaging her. If your opponent does decide to engage the Whiskey Golem you have two different ways to handle it. First is you hope you can kill the opposing model and then Nimble walk further into enemy territory and with a 3/5/6 damage spread you most likely could if it is a minion model with 6 health or less. The second option, if you have a high card in hand, is to first do "Fine" Craftsmanship to gain +2 defense, going to a 7, and then walk away and walk again so you have just moved 12" away from your original position. At that point you should absolutely be primed and ready to run the scheme fully, seeing as you walked 18" the first turn and then either killed the model engaging you and walked 6" more, or got +2 defense and walked 12" more. 

So far I have done this playstyle for the Whiskey Golem 5 times, each time he scored me the full 3 points I needed for the scheme. Before that I tried to use Merris in that role and my opponents never allowed her to get the full 3, usually I would only score 1 point from Merris herself. Of course though I will admit that 5 games isn't definitive proof that the Whiskey Golem is king at running Breakthrough, but so far it has worked out for me.

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I would be glad seeing Whiskey Golem trying to go deep in my half of the table to run schemes. There is nothing more beautiful than killing 10SS scheme runner denying VP points to my opponent. There is a tonne of models who ignore Armour and some of them can target Wp so his Fine Craftsmanship won't protect him.

IMO he should have 2/3'' MI range and Fine Craftsmaship as 0 action (at  the cost of card or some medium range simple duel). Also his Angry Drunk upgrade shouldn't cost 2SS but rather 1.

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Can't really see how you feel the whiskey golem to be more tanky and better at engaging then fingers actually. Automatic Df 6/wp 6 vs a 5/5 that become with an app a 7/5. Trigger wise, fingers trigger makes him so slippery to a point where half of the people I play against simply let him go do his things instead of chasing him and also his melee 7 makes him quite hard to disengage (whiskey golem has 6 so on that they are close to be even), without forgetting that he heals for free and IS AN HENCHMAN, which makes him way more durable. I also disagree on the fact that Fingers is wasted as a solo scheme runner for backfield objectives: being so tanky and so hard to tie up makes him perfect to invade the enemy half, while you can focus on taking control of the center or of flanks.

I think the only thing that whiskey golem has that Fingers doesn't are damages, which he doesn't need at all since he's that amazing at running schemes/strategies. 

Not to shit-talk the Golem, just saying that when I compared them, was just cost wise, since the two models are two complete different things. Imo the whiskey golem suffers from being a mixture of a lot of "concepts" where you he's supposed to be a tank (but he's not the best at it), can be considered a beater (but get outclassed by models that are even cheaper) and has scheming potentials, but again get outclassed. Just my opinion tho :) 

 

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19 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

I would be glad seeing Whiskey Golem trying to go deep in my half of the table to run schemes. There is nothing more beautiful than killing 10SS scheme runner denying VP points to my opponent. There is a tonne of models who ignore Armour and some of them can target Wp so his Fine Craftsmanship won't protect him.

IMO he should have 2/3'' MI range and Fine Craftsmaship as 0 action (at  the cost of card or some medium range simple duel). Also his Angry Drunk upgrade shouldn't cost 2SS but rather 1.

Yeah it's interesting so far no one has killed him. I think in general I do play very aggressively with the rest of my force making it a spread of choices that the opposing player has to make, so the Whiskey Golem on the flank has yet to be the prime target. I have played him this way twice with Mah Tucket and both times Mah was the primary concern, not the Golem. Two other times was elite Wong crew that drove up the center of the board for turf war, once again the Golem was ignored. Once it was with my Somer crew that has 3 Lightning Bugs and Trixie who he gives Crows to for the Slow trigger on all of their actions, so in that case I was really able to exert strong board control while The Whiskey Golem ran schemes.

So I guess I should clarify, if all you do is run the Whiskey Golem up with no way to distract your opponent with other concerns, he will go down in a blaze of glory.  

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I'm aware that you had another models in your crew that were trying to distract the opponent but I'm telling you from my perspective as an ex-Outcast player who used to run Levi/Jack Daw/Viks - if I see big target like that who is pushing along the table edge and do scheme running I'll dedicate some model who can deal with this big juicy target as I know it will hurt you badly (Levi himself, Pokey, tormented Johana pushed by Jack Daw or Nurse to paralyze your big guy, etc). I can't speak for your opponents though. 

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10 minutes ago, EpicWaffle said:

Can't really see how you feel the whiskey golem to be more tanky and better at engaging then fingers actually. Automatic Df 6/wp 6 vs a 5/5 that become with an app a 7/5. Trigger wise, fingers trigger makes him so slippery to a point where half of the people I play against simply let him go do his things instead of chasing him and also his melee 7 makes him quite hard to disengage (whiskey golem has 6 so on that they are close to be even), without forgetting that he heals for free and IS AN HENCHMAN, which makes him way more durable. I also disagree on the fact that Fingers is wasted as a solo scheme runner for backfield objectives: being so tanky and so hard to tie up makes him perfect to invade the enemy half, while you can focus on taking control of the center or of flanks.

I think the only thing that whiskey golem has that Fingers doesn't are damages, which he doesn't need at all since he's that amazing at running schemes/strategies. 

Not to shit-talk the Golem, just saying that when I compared them, was just cost wise, since the two models are two complete different things. Imo the whiskey golem suffers from being a mixture of a lot of "concepts" where you he's supposed to be a tank (but he's not the best at it), can be considered a beater (but get outclassed by models that are even cheaper) and has scheming potentials, but again get outclassed. Just my opinion tho :) 

 

In general I agree he is the best scheme runner we have however, as long as you are fine with devoting a big portion of your soulstones to him, which then does make him more durable, which I am not a fan of doing if I am running Wong or Mah. Both of those masters I devote the SS to mainly their triggers an Mah to stay alive. In those two masters case I never take Fingers, but I have taken the Whiskey Golem. 

Overall though while Fingers is excellent, I think with specific masters and specific schemes Whiskey Golem is the more solid choice.

Also I would add I would really like to see an Errataon the Whiskey Golem to make him worth taking as a beat stick and something that can tie down opposing models, 2' or 3" reach would be a great start.

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4 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

I'm aware that you had another models in your crew that were trying to distract the opponent but I'm telling you from my perspective as an ex-Outcast player who used to run Levi/Jack Daw/Viks - if I see big target like that who is pushing along the table edge and do scheme running I'll dedicate some model who can deal with this big juicy target as I know it will hurt you badly (Levi himself, Pokey, tormented Johana pushed by Jack Daw or Nurse to paralyze your big guy, etc). I can't speak for your opponents though. 

Yeah I actually have played against a really great Outcast player here and I don't try to include any scheme runners, against him everything needs to be ready to contribute to the blood and gore, no chance to run schemes. The other Outcasts players in my meta mainly play Misaki which I have found easy to neutralize, though the rest of the crew can be difficult, I have found it more easy to manage using the Whiskey Golem. So yeah I would probably say that against a good Outcast player you should probably shelve Fingers and Whiskey Golem, probably Merris as well. 

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Meh, I guess we have different play styles :) Im usually good at splitting resources for both my master and him, but I generally play Zipp, Somer and Wong, so it might be easier to handle resources compared to mah :) in my point of view, as long as it grants me 3 to 4 points, every soul stone I invest in it is worth, and with fingers, this is generally the case. Btw, I'm with you with the issue: the upgrade buff quite missed the spot (as did the upgrade for Warpigs imo) , or at least is still not enough to justify the 10ss. Wyrd need to understand what they want the Whiskey golem to be and if it wants it to fit the beatstick/tank role, need to give him at least 2" radius. 1" for an ht3 model is simply ridicoulous.

edit : @thecapopriest sorry I forgot to quote you

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13 hours ago, DanteJH said:

Thanks for replying EpicWaffle, I'll be sure to address everything you've said in my next post which I hope to put out next soon but I'll give you the short version. I'm afraid I can't agree with fingers, it's very important to factor in just how fast he is. My issue with fingers is that he doesn't do much besides schemes. Going back to his speed, the golem can very easily transition after he's done with the scheme to any other job that the crew needs done and further more he's just so much more durable. People point to fingers as being so good because of his in built healing but the whiskey golem and do that whenever he hits someone AND has plus 1 armour. On top of that he can put our way more damage and tie up way more models a which a good tank should be able to do. I really do feel like the golem strait outclassed fingers.

I've never use Merris or Gracie so I may be wrong but I've played against Merris and she didn't impress me. Never had anything to do with Gracie but I'm aware she's amazing.

Ill be talking about Burt and Frank in the next post as they are used to compare the whiskey golem with a lot and I'd like like to go into more  detail.

As a last note you are SO RIGHT about spending the AP the defence. A big learning curve for me was when to use it and when the kick something teeth in but it is still really annoying that you have to do it but I'll address it in the next post and hopefully convince you that he's worth it

Wish that too ;) I guess that Zipp and Mah are the one that can get the most fro the Golem, tho it's hard for me to figure how  and why I would want him instead of the models I sudgested! Glad to see brave player like you forcing the barrier of what is "meta" :D unluckily (or not) tournaments in here are quite competitive so fun picks generally grants you last place :D 

just to address to points in your post:

1)why do you consider whiskey Golem tankier than Fingers? Sure he can get to Df 7 and has armor, but fingers is smaller (so harder to see, aim at), has constant 6df and higher wp (another 6), can reposition from a charge and can use soulstones. Can't really see how he's bigger, since he can heal the same amount the golem can. Maybe in your metà not many masters target wp? Cause we have a ton of resser, neverborn and Arcanists in my zone, so the golem would last 2 seconds on the board :D 

2) I avoided talking about francois cause imo he's not to be paired with Burt: Frank deals massive damages to a single target before needing to retreat and heal back, while Burt deals "less" but more consistent damages, and has a kit that allows him to take a punch or two (or to make something close take it of course ;) ). So the comparison between Frank and the golem might be too forced imo.

Ps: I don't wanna sound cocky, I'm genuinely curious about your ideas and theories on the whiskey golem, so my arguments and "oppositions" are driven by curiosity, I'm not trying to convince you to think it like me ;) 

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5 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

Wish that too ;) I guess that Zipp and Mah are the one that can get the most fro the Golem, tho it's hard for me to figure how  and why I would want him instead of the models I sudgested! Glad to see brave player like you forcing the barrier of what is "meta" :D unluckily (or not) tournaments in here are quite competitive so fun picks generally grants you last place :D 

just to address to points in your post:

1)why do you consider whiskey Golem tankier than Fingers? Sure he can get to Df 7 and has armor, but fingers is smaller (so harder to see, aim at), has constant 6df and higher wp (another 6), can reposition from a charge and can use soulstones. Can't really see how he's bigger, since he can heal the same amount the golem can. Maybe in your metà not many masters target wp? Cause we have a ton of resser, neverborn and Arcanists in my zone, so the golem would last 2 seconds on the board :D 

2) I avoided talking about francois cause imo he's not to be paired with Burt: Frank deals massive damages to a single target before needing to retreat and heal back, while Burt deals "less" but more consistent damages, and has a kit that allows him to take a punch or two (or to make something close take it of course ;) ). So the comparison between Frank and the golem might be too forced imo.

Ps: I don't wanna sound cocky, I'm genuinely curious about your ideas and theories on the whiskey golem, so my arguments and "oppositions" are driven by curiosity, I'm not trying to convince you to think it like me ;) 

Thanks again for replying, it's always good to have a sceptic around. In terms of tournament s don't think he's not competitive. I've got a tournament this weekend and he's in 3 out of 5 rounds. Anyway, your concerns :

1 I believe the golem is a better tank than fingers because of his armour, option to heal after damaging while still having the same 1 action heal as fingers and in my opinion a better defensive trigger. It is important too to note that I'm not saying he's a better tank but a better all round model. Even if he's not as good a tank as fingers you must admit he's not far behind and the golem can do much more than throw around poison. Also you are correct in terms of willpower, I don't take him against willpower based crew but I have found that there are many more crews and models that target df.

2 yes I'm aware of this and fully agree with you it's just that people usually use frank as a comparison whenever I talk about damage in the gremlin faction.

Thanks as always

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7 hours ago, daniello_s said:

I would be glad seeing Whiskey Golem trying to go deep in my half of the table to run schemes. There is nothing more beautiful than killing 10SS scheme runner denying VP points to my opponent. There is a tonne of models who ignore Armour and some of them can target Wp so his Fine Craftsmanship won't protect him.

IMO he should have 2/3'' MI range and Fine Craftsmaship as 0 action (at  the cost of card or some medium range simple duel). Also his Angry Drunk upgrade shouldn't cost 2SS but rather 1.

While I do agree with your buffing ideas but I can't agree with your first statement. I've had a perdita (who ignores armour) go HAM on him and him coming out the other end scoring me full vp for leave your mark. 

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8 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

 Wyrd need to understand what they want the Whiskey golem to be and if it wants it to fit the beatstick/tank role, need to give him at least 2" radius. 1" for an ht3 model is simply ridicoulous.

Maybe he is Gremlin's T-Rex?... You know, big boy with short hands... ;)

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