Shintoninja Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 I have yet to add TT Archers to my collection and I doubt I ever will. The pros don't seem to out weigh the cons. Personal opinions aside the TT Archers have been coming up in threads lately as suggested models. Is there something I am missing? I currently use the Katanaka Snipers to good effects. Explain to me the benefits of TT Archers. Please. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsun Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 They look cool. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 What @newsun said. I love the Ten Thunders Archer sculpts. They're some of my favorites in the Faction and they look awesome in my display cabinet. Unfortunately, there's where they're staying until they get a serious update. Archers are unfortunately pretty bad in-game. They're very easy to kill for a 7SS model, completely useless in melee and their shooting is merely okay. Being able to shot into engagement or ignore LoS with their (2) action is neat, but that's literally the only thing going for them and that's not worth 7SS. What's worse is that the archers are competing with 3 other similarly costed shooters in-faction - the Samurai, Katanaka Sniper and Pathfinder. All three are amazing in their own ways, meaning that unless you REALLY want to shoot into engagements (and refuse to take a melee-focused Illuminated instead, for instance), there's no reason at all to take an archer for your shooting needs. And that's ignoring McCabe's ability to bring in Austringers and Riflemen - two models who are again, far better than the archers for less SS. Personally I think they'd be worth consideration if they were dropped to 5 SS. That feels about right for a dedicated shooter who's so fragile. That, or make them much, much more evasive and difficult to kill/pin down. Side note: Who on the forum is suggesting TT Archers? And can I get whatever they're smoking? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Maybe it's from the 'Collection Advice' thread where some suggested TT Archers for a new Misaki/Lynch player. Regardless, Archers -can- be fun for a low-level, friendly game. Not so much when things get serious - they are expensive and other options just seem better when you are looking to optimize. Quite sad, as the sculpts are great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintoninja Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 So all my fears have been confirmed. I seem to have all the same concerns as @Rathnard. Too expensive to field when compared to alternatives. No good defensive abilities when compared to alternatives. And no Mi attack option. Considering that they are a minion model I doubt they will ever consider an erata. Even if it was only lowering Thier cost to 5ss Damn right though about being a beautiful sculpt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Shintoninja said: Considering that they are a minion model I doubt they will ever consider an erata. Of the 8 models that got a straight up buffed in January 2017 errata, 2, or 25%, were minions. I don't think their station will have any effect on whether or not they'll be errata'd in the future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintoninja Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 @Nikodemus I will extend my thought as to why I don't believe they will errata the card. It isn't only their station. Of all the errata that was done Jan 2017 how many were SS cost changes? None to my knowledge, maybe I should look. Being over priced for their abilities is does not necessarily effect Malifaux gravely. I believe that is a model is getting used less it is the least of Wyrd's concerns. They have already tried to remedy part of cost issues with a 0cost upgrade "Blot the Sky" without real effect. If they reduce the cost while letting this upgrade persist they will have to either. A ) Account for the upgrade and increase the cost. Likely 6ss and still not to great effect that I would start using them. B ) Remove the upgrade from the game and lower the cost to 5ss which would be optimal though again maybe worth playing but likely only situationally. C) Lower the cost to 5ss and keep the upgrade. At which point I feel you could use the upgrade to an advantage. That is my thoughts I am curious what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintoninja Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 I did look up the 2017 errata and they did change the SS cost of one minion. The Guardian. Though he did also get a buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 The Guardian went from 8 to 7 SS. Also the Blot the Sky upgrade is 1SS. So it's certainly not an auto include. You're right in that any buff would need to take Blot the sky into account though. Though i don't think that makes it impossible. Especially since the upgrade already has a cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 As said Guardian had its SS cost reduced. Montresor and Nothing Beast, while not minions, have fix upgrades associated with them. This tells me Wyrd is willing to change a model's SS cost and is willing to buff a model whether or not it has an existing fix upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintoninja Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Malifaux under new creative management? Hence why Errata happened in the first place instead of continuing to implement Upgrade cards? If it happens, great! Call me a sceptical but I think they are going to address other issues of balance before this perticlar concern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjoad Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Stop me if you've heard this one before but: I VERY MUCH HOPE THE ARCHER DOES NOT GET AN ERRATA. Errata would be the death of this game if everything that forum dwellers moaned about got changed up. It is not only an okay thing, but it is a natural and necessary thing for some models to be more competitive than others. It is not okay, on the other hand, for people to be perpetually confused about what a model actually does, because they don't feel like they can trust the card they have on hand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintoninja Posted March 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 @tomjoad I completely agree with you. If any multi facetted game (RPGs, CCGs, Table Top) was to listen to their players and make changes accordingly said games would be in constant flux. Consistency to maintain previously material is important. Any TT player knows that TT Brother are grossly under priced If there is an expectation to level the game that would include Archers to come down then TT Brothers should go up. Take the good with the bad. And keep the material consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I fully acknowledge that TT archers may well be left alone until M3E. Wyrd can't and shouldn't respond to every single complaint about why model X or Y is too good or too bad. But if the latest errata is anything to go by, Wyrd has demonstrated an interest fixing models that are believed to really need it. As Aarin said future erratas are unlikely to be as extensive, and will probably be saved for units that are either completely useless or actively ruining games. ...and at least in my opinion, the archers are completely useless. In fact I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than a few units that are worse and taken less often that the 10-Thunder Archers. As an aside, while I think TT brothers are probably too good for what you pay, they're not auto-includes or grossly overpowered. In fact when I was playing 10T last year I only used them occasionally. There are plenty of great alternatives for scheme runners in 10T, depending on exactly what you want to do with them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsun Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 I fully agree regarding 10t bro they are good, not op. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 If I was going to do any modification to TT Archers it would be to make their bonus to shooting into engagement apply also to shooting at a Target in cover. As long as the target is able to me shot normally (as in not in full cover and obscured) then the the Archer can ignore cover to shoot them. I think that would make them a little more useful but I like playing in heavy terrain boards :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokapondora Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 Still wouldn't be enough. Compare them to their closest match; the Austringer. They cost 6 SS, can ignore LoS AND cover, can up their range to 18, have some nifty triggers including critical strike, have Sh 7, a couple of nice other actions that make them more versatile, don't need to waste an upgrade slot and 1 extra SS, AND have more Df and Wds. Now admittedly, Austringers are amazing, but it really highlights all of the flaws the Archers have - too expensive, too one-note, too limited, too weak... It would take a buff along the lines of their entire damage track being upped by 1 for me to reconsider them at this point if we want to up their game without completely reworking their card. Edit; Forgot that little Errata. It's really telling how little that changes though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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